Suggestions

[Neuro Divergent]

Forgive me if any of these have been suggested; just tossing them out there:

First of all, GREAT Concept and follow-through so far! It's like that "other store game" having to do with bricks (Ha) only MUCH better!

- Editor and Steam Workshop for editing/making your own products. At the very least, a way to edit prices. $9.60 for a bottle of soda is INSANELY high where I'm from!

- Add more items to shelves: In reality, most store shelves are several rows deep. There is even physical space showing in the game. Maybe make it actual usable space, at least 2 rows deep?

- Concerning customer, "questions" maybe a lower generation value for grocery/food/beverage items. People do ask sales people questions about computers, clothes, etc. but rarely have I encountered a real life customer asking whether or not they should buy a bottle of ketchup. (Ha!)

- On that thought, maybe add in questions for products of the particular categories that you have chosen to carry. For example, someone walks up and asks where to find something. You can respond with either 1) Showing them by clicking on the item on the shelf, 2) Asking them to wait and you will, "check out back" or 3) Saying you do not carry that item. This could be a way to determine demand for products, if people keep asking for things you do not have.

[Dennis]

On the pricing, you may know but just in case.....The game starts in a different currency than you use in RL probably. I think it's a Scandinavian (Danish maybe) currency - so that price can look really high if you don't change the currency on your game to what you are used too. I think it's in the options menu before you load your manager.

[Dennis]

For the shelving - Game Balance. Unless you are talking strictly the visual look. Once I wrapped my head around the fact that a Customer will only ever buy ONE can of tomato Soup per visit - Having 6-8 per shelf is fine considering size of store etc.

If Dev makes it so 16 cans of soup now fit -he has to jiggle everything to make all the Concepts still balance.

[Neuro Divergent]

Yes, I did change the currency to USD and that's the figure. The cost is $1.60 which is basically the retail irl. Maybe a currency conversion formula would work? The hourly pay is also slightly off. For example, I don't care how qualified someone is, I'm not paying $20+ per hour to ring the register! Lol Some kind of editor to allow for altering base settings/cash amounts might be nice.

As for size of shelf space, that should really only affect restocking, as you wont have to stock it as often. Should be simply a matter of doubling the number of slots for a second row. That would allow you to go longer before restocking and potentially save on staff costs.

[Dennis]

I'm a blowhard. Just occurred to me as i reread my essay that I'm not answering your basic question. I think you can do what you want. Just create your own currency and find a conversion rate you like :)


Pricing - Now I'm drifting into macro Econ territory and some guesswork. Not disagreeing with the premise - i agree that the buy/sell price is out of whack for me - personally. But what most Americans fail to consider is that our basic staple foods have Govt price guarantees on them (Just don't call it socialism /s) . Had a chap from New Zealand visit us in Calif when I was a senior in HS (17). He couldn't stop buying milk every time he went to a gas station or store. Milk in USA (even SoCal) cost less than 1/3 of what he normally paid. Most other Govt's around the world now have similar price guarantees - But we do it on steroids to make sure Big Agro stays in biz (like oil subsidies). Not saying right or wrong - Whens the last time you couldn't find eggs or milk immediately? Food Stamps helped power us out of the Great Depression. Just that food prices swing very wildly even just across national borders. Add to that Game Balance. Dev could price everything very accurately for each individual user group/currency/Market Area. But then have to re-balance the three concepts to each other every time.

For me, that sets the premise for all $ ratios. I assume even tho $20/hour is outrageous for a cashier where I live, Labor Cost seems to be balanced okay overall to what my Gross Profit margin is. I've known plenty of Store Managers in my life. Not a single one ever got anywhere near 10% of the Net profit for their store. It's always just a meager few grand a quarter in bonuses if you hit certain %.

I treat it as an adaptation of a great Board Game that I've never managed to play and can't find the rules for :) Numbers are what they are for game balance. So far it works so I'll play along.

[Dennis]

btw - that was silent agreement on the other ideas, I've some feelings on improving the Sales minigame posted elsewhere and your's sound great. I'd LOVE to have that info!

[Neuro Divergent]

Bonuses for hitting targets! I like it! I know you weren't openly suggesting it but, nevertheless! :)

[Neuro Divergent]

So I took your advice and tried a conversion of 0.20 for USD. That made prices a bit more realistic with the sale price of the cheapy soda at $1.92. That also dropped everything else, including my initial cash to $800, cost of racks, etc. But all that is more realistic too, lie $16 for a wooden pallet instead of $80. About the only thing that did NOT fit was the marketing computer ($32) and the hourly pay which topped out at $8/hr. So it DOES seem balanced with those exceptions. I guess for now I'll keep it at the normal USD default with higher prices and just pretend that each item represents a small case. ;p

[Anna]

Originally posted by Ocdadd:

Yes, I did change the currency to USD and that's the figure. The cost is $1.60 which is basically the retail irl. Maybe a currency conversion formula would work? The hourly pay is also slightly off. For example, I don't care how qualified someone is, I'm not paying $20+ per hour to ring the register! Lol Some kind of editor to allow for altering base settings/cash amounts might be nice.

As for size of shelf space, that should really only affect restocking, as you wont have to stock it as often. Should be simply a matter of doubling the number of slots for a second row. That would allow you to go longer before restocking and potentially save on staff costs.

Could you clarify the price of the soda. You said 9.60 in first post, but 1.60 in this post. I don't want to buy the game if its $9.60 Thats ridiculous and so unrealistic. I saw a you tube where he was hiring somebody and they wanted like 120/hr. I don't know if it was USD or not. If it is USD, I will pass. LOL I like some level or realism in a game. I'd appreciate any clarification you can give as I decided whether to buy it or not. Thanks.

[Seftak]

Originally posted by Anna:

Originally posted by Ocdadd:

Yes, I did change the currency to USD and that's the figure. The cost is $1.60 which is basically the retail irl. Maybe a currency conversion formula would work? The hourly pay is also slightly off. For example, I don't care how qualified someone is, I'm not paying $20+ per hour to ring the register! Lol Some kind of editor to allow for altering base settings/cash amounts might be nice.

As for size of shelf space, that should really only affect restocking, as you wont have to stock it as often. Should be simply a matter of doubling the number of slots for a second row. That would allow you to go longer before restocking and potentially save on staff costs.

Could you clarify the price of the soda. You said 9.60 in first post, but 1.60 in this post. I don't want to buy the game if its $9.60 Thats ridiculous and so unrealistic. I saw a you tube where he was hiring somebody and they wanted like 120/hr. I don't know if it was USD or not. If it is USD, I will pass. LOL I like some level or realism in a game. I'd appreciate any clarification you can give as I decided whether to buy it or not. Thanks.

The basic currency is danish krone. Reason why you think the prices do not make sense. Also you can see most grocery product as buying many copies of it. Like the customer does not buy a single soda bottle but a 12 pack of it.

But the most unrealistic thing I'd say is the profit on grocery prodcut. If my boss would make 50% to 80% profit on grocery products he would be a multi billionaire....

[Seftak]

Kinda agreeable. But electronics don't sell for 95% profit in that case... Clothings and electronics profits are correct. I worked IRL in the 3 types of shop available ingame and only the grocery does not make sence. We make around 5% on soda and and sell them at a loss when we have a sale. Yogurt and cheese (i'm a dairy aisle manager) are between 5% and 20% depending if we have a sale. We only have a handful of product where we make about 40% profit and those are the home brand products only.

[Dennis]

The key is gameplay and balance. Product Price is the final key to balancing the concepts and Dev can use anything to justify it. I play it as if many types of undocumented expenses are rolled into 'Cost of Goods Sold' (Product Purchase Price)
1) Insurance - Insuring Computers vs Broccoli
2) Part of the increased cost % (in comparison) for Clothes and Electronics are in Dealer/Licensing fee's

If the Concepts were not balanced, the base purchase price would be the simplest way to rebalance. So I expect some fluidity there as updates come in and effect game balance. Especially if the requests for fresh concepts is in the works.

[Seftak]

It is the opposite though. If i read your reasoning correctly then electronics should have a lower margin and grocery an even higher one. You are not supposed to make a huge profit on grocery since you sell a lot at a lower margin, and customers buy it every day / week. Clothing and electronics have a higher margin because you sell less but at a higher margin. Electronics and clothing margins are fine. Between 30% to 50% on those is what you will find IRL.

[Dennis]

Perhaps I misunderstood, it's been awhile since I booted up a game, so my memory may be hazy. I thought the item being discussed was the higher rate of Gross Profit Margin on Groceries? I'm saying that Dev can use 'In Game Lore' to justify anything he wants to do with COGS to make the Final Net Profit balanced across the concepts.

As an example - Dev could say "Insurance" is why Elect seems lower than Groceries (in comparison to RL) Not as a reason to lower it further.

It's for Balance and Gameplay. So much is not being captured on our Income Statements & Balance Sheets that is in RL, yes? I finally learned to stop looking for a Depreciation Expense lol. So 'Reality' has far less of a hold on me compared to game balance.

Does a 20,000 sq ft Clothing store have the same utilities cost of a similar sized Grocery Store? I can't say for sure, but I would assume all those coolers and freezers have to be a significant additional cost that is not being captured accurately here. (this would move the needle in the wrong way for this issue, but is an example of the 'ish part of the game)

We can literally have 100 Employees that all work 2 hour shifts one day a week for zero HR costs.

The GPM is the easiest variable Dev can manipulate to balance the concepts, without mucking up the code with different upstream Income Statements types for every Concept.

The Net PM comparison between the three Concepts is what matters. If Dev changed the GPM in Groceries to be more realistic without taking time to completely redo the Groceries Concept as a separate code from the other concepts to keep it in balance, everyone would ♥♥♥♥♥ about Groceries being impossible.

[Seftak]

Well what they could do is treat grocery as groceries. Right now people will buy products all the same whatever the kind of store they are in. They come in, buy a computer and leave or they come in, buy a can of tomato and leave.

Normally people are expected to buy like 50 items when doing their groceries. So a (successful) grocery store should require many cash registers, a very large storeroom and many many copies of the same item because you only make 15% profit on each item but sell many per customers instead of 1 item at 60% profit.

Right now there is no different feeling from running any of the 3 types of store other than the base price of items. Groceries are cheap so you can have many in stock but customer don't really buy more of them. Clothings are a middle ground and electronics are the most expensive but bring in the most profit with a little help from advertising. So right now the only option to make money fast is to go for electronics.

Edit. Grocery SHOULD be impossible without a starting cash of at least 250 000$ to 500 000$ to have an appropriate inventory, space, shelves and make agressive advertisement to get people in. You do not start a grocery chain with 10 000$... With that cash you make a small family convenience store at best. But the game is built around making a mega corp with the HQ...

[Tux]

I would like to take this game, and Traders Life and put in an blender.

what I dont find appealing about Traders Life is having to manually stock each item. I perfer how this game does that.
What I like about Traders Life that this game does not have is having your apartment and some life outside of the immediate store.

That said, with no question I find this one more appealing the Traders Life