The problem of selecting random fractions.

[blowjob master]

In the new selection system, there is a chance that there will be 3 "Rebels" in the game (this is all WA type) and 1 "Belligerent" (Marquise or Dynasty or Moles). In fact, in a real board game, such situations are played at your own risk and often they are unacceptable

[MarleyTown]

Advanced set up was created in response to players wanting a more competitive set up phase, and has been play tested in hundreds if not thousands of games at this point, and works very well.

[Sakarov]

Not a problem. Advanced setup is meant for advanced players (shocking i know).

The point is that any advantage a faction may have shoud be offset by turn order and players actions.

[blowjob master]

after reading the answers above, I disagree.
the essence of root is primarily the presence of military, powerful, large factions.
they have more linear actions, they have a stronger impact on the game when both small WA or vagabond are practically not on the map at all.
and with this arrangement (yes, I understand that there is such a setup in a real board game), the game turns into 1 faction of moles and 3 small ones that can't really do anything to each other.
THIS PROBLEM IS SOLVED in a board game, but not in a digital one, because in digital there are very often situations where it seems that someone is deliberately ruining the game without realizing it. Players just forget about other small factions and do what they did, and as a result it turns out that some WA keeps the whole forest in tokens

[MarleyTown]

Players pick from the factions drafted, more then one "military" faction will be picked if that is what is needed for player balance. Players will balance out the game through their choices, that is part of the fun of Root.

[Sakarov]

Originally posted by Igaminginlol:

THIS PROBLEM IS SOLVED in a board game, but not in a digital one, because in digital there are very often situations where it seems that someone is deliberately ruining the game without realizing it. Players just forget about other small factions and do what they did

Again, advanced setup is meant for advanced players. Don't play adset with beginners. And when in doubt don't play adset with strangers if you don't want to risk beginners joining.

[ianism]

the problem OP is talking about refers to the fact that ADSET allows games to go ahead with only one militant faction like (for example) Eyrie, Lizards, Crows and Vagabond. This does not produce a fun game. it's not really about skill level.

this is the result 6 of the 9 factions (there can be 2 vagabonds, don't forget!) in the digital version being insurgent/low reach factions, which do not fill up the board much. this makes it very likely you'll get a match with just one militant faction.

it's going to keep being an issue until we get the option to exclude certain factions from the draft or the Marauders expansions (both militant) come to digital. I expect the first to never happen. the second... maybe a year from now if we're lucky.

[Sakarov]

Originally posted by ianism:

the problem OP is talking about refers to the fact that ADSET allows games to go ahead with only one militant faction like (for example) Eyrie, Lizards, Crows and Vagabond. This does not produce a fun game. it's not really about skill level.

That's here you're wrong : it is *not* a problem, it's a feature. Reach level is only a recommendation. Of course ADSET can lead to unbalanced games but all that means is that the draft made winners and losers (skill) and the players will need to try and make up for it in game (again, skill).

[MarleyTown]

Originally posted by Sakarov:

Originally posted by ianism:

the problem OP is talking about refers to the fact that ADSET allows games to go ahead with only one militant faction like (for example) Eyrie, Lizards, Crows and Vagabond. This does not produce a fun game. it's not really about skill level.

That's here you're wrong : it is *not* a problem, it's a feature. Reach level is only a recommendation. Of course ADSET can lead to unbalanced games but all that means is that the draft made winners and losers (skill) and the players will need to try and make up for it in game (again, skill).

Precisely

[MarleyTown]

I really don't get why people who don't like ADSET don't just play with the base rules of set up. ADSET is a lot of fun and really adds some balance to the game, especially for the Cats, Lizards and Corvids.

[HOAI]

ADSET is a tried and true ruleset that has seen all sorts of play by this point and it works well. ADSET offers a playing space through thoughtful turn order and faction selection that allows players' skills to make up for any differences in what you're given. Regardless of whether there is one or multiple militant factions, skill is regarded above all else, which includes decision-making in the faction you choose.

If you don't want to play a game that requires as much effort to play, don't play ADSET. Basic setup is always there if you only want to have fun.

That said, it is a shame there is no All-Pick included with ADSET (namely for "with friends" matches), but I imagine it's to prevent people complaining about imbalances when people can choose whoever they want in any turn order they want, defeating the entire purpose of ADSET's balancing besides homeland/setup buffs.

This game doesn't discriminate between casual and competitive games, after all. It would easily result in muddied assessments of ADSET's balancing as people playing All-Pick ADSET would blend in with people playing ADSET properly. Two incredibly different experiences.

[Obluda]

I'd just like to point out that adset is tried and true with the 2 militant factions added in the Marauders expansion. Unless I'm missing some secret playtesting history, it was not played extensively with only factions up to Underworld.

[Sakarov]

Originally posted by Obluda:

I'd just like to point out that adset is tried and true with the 2 militant factions added in the Marauders expansion. Unless I'm missing some secret playtesting history, it was not played extensively with only factions up to Underworld.

That's entirely irrelevant. In a 4 players game only 5 factions cards will be drawn out of 9 (without marauders) or out of 11 (with it).

So in 4p adset with marauders in any given game 6 factions will not be part of the pool. Therefore if you playtest enough there will be a lot of games where Rats/Badgers are not a factor.

[HOAI]

Originally posted by Obluda:

I'd just like to point out that adset is tried and true with the 2 militant factions added in the Marauders expansion. Unless I'm missing some secret playtesting history, it was not played extensively with only factions up to Underworld.

Not true. Tons of games are played without Badgers or Rats, this point is irrelevant. A portion of that 'secret playtesting history' can be found on the Root Winter Tournaments, where several games feature neither faction. On top of that, even rarer is the chance to get BOTH rats and badgers in the same game.

[blowjob master]

Stop writing about ADSET and how good it is. Understand, this setup has been released in the Marauder DLC, which is not yet in the digital version. We have only 3 military factions and 5 small, fillers. Small thracians were originally supposed to be fillers in the war of militant factions.
You write that this is for super professionals, but NO. ADSET WAS ADDED IN THE LAST DLC, IT WASN'T IN UNDERWORLD, so it works poorly.
INSTEAD OF INTRODUCING ADSET, a 6-player mode would be better introduced.

[Sakarov]

Originally posted by Igaminginlol:

Stop writing about ADSET and how good it is. Understand, this setup has been released in the Marauder DLC, which is not yet in the digital version. We have only 3 military factions and 5 small, fillers. Small thracians were originally supposed to be fillers in the war of militant factions.
You write that this is for super professionals, but NO. ADSET WAS ADDED IN THE LAST DLC, IT WASN'T IN UNDERWORLD, so it works poorly.
INSTEAD OF INTRODUCING ADSET, a 6-player mode would be better introduced.

Maybe stop spouting nonsense and we'll stop calling you out on it ?