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No More Heroes 2 has almost totally identical controls to the original, except like you say you can optionally use a normal controller with all the motion stuff mapped to sensible normal inputs.
Literally just put the No More Heroes 2 controls into the original game and it would probably work absolutely perfectly. I can't remember off-hand anything in particular that couldn't function on a normal controller.
What I will never understand, is the pushback from fans who never want games to be ported to newer systems. It will always sound alien to me, because I've never seen a movie buff complaining that movies he already owns on dvd are being re-released in 4k. Meanwhile, I see that with gamers every time. I also have a functioning wii, but just because we do it doesen't mean everyone does.
A game getting a PC port drastically increases its life span (that is to say, until steam dies) as in most cases, it will be directly compatible with all subsequent windows PCs (exceptions do exist due to outdated drivers and what not, yes) compared to being stuck on a retro console that is going to get more and more difficult to purchase and get running, not to mention modern HDTVs not being compatible with RGB (lol) cables anymore.
Again, I never agree with the whiny tone but I also realize most people playing videogames are actual children
Not everyone is a rich person who can own every system under the sun. I pretty much do (I even wasted my money on a useless xbox one) and even I happened not to own a nintendo switch. I bought one for my fianceé as she really wanted to play splatoon 2, so when I got two copies of TSA I just played it on her switch in coop. Hence why I'm buying the Steam version when it releases, so I can actually play it when I'm by myself as well. Which by the way makes it the third version of TSA I will buy, and I'll probably buy the ps4 boxed version for collection's sake anyway.
Even then, I played it with a pro controller all the way through because my hands are too big for the joycons (I always push two buttons at once by mistake)
If those games did not sell well on release it's both because they barely got any advertisement, and because let's be fair, they are designed in a way that naturally makes them more niche than say, red dead redemption or whatever it is the kids are playing nowadays. I did some crazy stuff such as gifting my friends copies of the silver case when it got released on steam but other people can barely afford to pay their bills. I know, because I have been there and could not even afford a digital copy of the 25th ward on release and had to rely on a friend gifting me one which I later refunded him for.
Heroes Paradise was awful because of the ugly redone graphics, smaller map, halved framerate and generally botched artstyle. Certainly not for just having the option of playing with a controller which NMH2 on the wii also had.
(A game which I profoundly dislike, yet I don't campaign against it being re-released)
I'm pretty sure Heroes Paradise also allowed play with a playstation move, which was sony's equivalent to the wiimote.
People have all sorts of reasons for wanting to play with different control schemes. My fianceé suffers from wrist tendinitis, is she just not allowed to play no more heroes because it would sour the experience for people who are irked about her using a controller?
Or is it just poorer people who can't afford to own every console that are icky and unwelcome?
I even own a wii but I play everything on dolphin simply because I do not live in a mansion and have unlimited space next to my tv for every single console that ever existed
It's good that you did, if movie fans were like you classics like 2001 a space oddysee or blade runner would be stuck in movie reel format because who would want to rewatch the old movies that I have already seen? Let's not even get into new generations who simply were not around when the wii came out because those people apparently do not exist. I personally happen to like the first no more heroes game so I'd be glad to see it preserved rather than to be only available on one console that is not supported anymore.
Nintendo is doing a terrible job at preserving their back catalogue on their own proprietary hardware, the best virtual console they had was on the wii and that's discontinued and cannot be accessed anymore. So yes I wish I could purchase and play most older mario games on a legally purchased nintendo system, where's the part where I am crazy? Am I just not supposed to replay old games ever, because I did not earn the right by owning a functioning NES and a functioning cartridge for super mario bros 3? Does that make me uncool in your eyes, if I had it on the wii virtual console and played it there?
I'm also not sure why you think a port is a remake but that's a subject for another day I guess
I bought killer7 on release and then imported silver case and fsr shortly thereafter in 2006-7, and I am very happy that Killer7 has got a port that runs perfectly on pc and even includes english subtitles, and I would raccomend it over the gamecube version any day. But I guess since people who have trouble with motion controls are not cool enough to play your favourite games, then neither are people who are hard of hearing or have trouble with harsh american accents.
I would be even happier if FSR got an HD port, considering the only version available in english is a severe downgrade, but I suspect that is evil too for some backwards ass reason that in the average gamer's mind, if you love a game you must campaign against its preservation and for it to be replaced by the next mainstream title
go away already and stop embarrassing yourself pal
When the Silent Hill 2 & 3 ports on ps360 turned out terrible, the silent hill community did not just laugh at people who did not own a ps2 telling them to go buy one and then mod it so that it's compatible with hdmi output, they rallied around the older pc versions and made mods that made them play closer to an intended HD version of those games
As in, when the port was bad they blamed the developer instead of blaming the users and then did something productive as a whole
Same thing happens with bad movie/tv show transfers, the community rallies against whoever is responsible for the transfer and demands a better one
https://youtu.be/oZWNGq70Oyo
Yet here you stand attacking people who are just excited to play a game they enjoyed in the past or simply never got a chance to play because they would not be playing it in the way you want them to, which I find to be very elitist and arrogant as it does not take into account economics, possible disabilities (once again not everyone can wave their wrists around freely), personal preference while you claim that your opinion is fact, simply because it is
tldr Heroes Paradise is a ♥♥♥♥ port because it's ♥♥♥♥, not because it's a port
What you call "port begging" (and why you find it irritating is beyond me) is meant to show interest in those games to the publishers, who by the way are involved in checking steam forums. Without what you call "port begging", there would be no preservation for said games because devs would just assume nobody cares.
You are also using the term "port begging" incorrectly since it has mostly been related to currently available games. As in, pc users begging for a readily available title on ps4 to be ported on pc. NMH is not readily available, it's a 12 years old wii game, wouldn't that be a re-release?
Hence why I think it's rooted in elitism and arrogance rather than well meaning concern. This 'rushing the dev will just get us a bad port' narrative materialized after your original argument, and it's actually based on nothing. Can you point me to one post across several forums saying that they want the game right now and they are not willing to wait? Can you point me to one post rushing development? Or is it just people who are excited to play a new version of a game we all enjoyed?
Your argument that if someone doesen't want to buy a wii or emulate and play with a wiimote (which is encouraging piracy for a game you like, by the way, because let's be fair, how many people are going to buy a disc for emulation instead of downloading an iso?) is not much different than me saying, why don't you just learn japanese to play the silver case? Why don't you buy a i-mode phone with the 25th ward and learn japanese to play it?
It's gonna get more and more difficult as the years go by too, as the number of working wiis dwindles away and you have to rely on hardware modifications and what not
Like, let's be honest for a sec: if this game sells well, it's probably what is going to happen. And NMH is basically the main GHM game for the mainstream market. It WILL sell well.
I don't think the whole problem about NMH on PC is about making these games accessible, that's something great tbh... I think the main problem is: how will they translate the NMH's experience to PC?
Will we recieve another FSR situation, where a great game is now stuck to a horrible port that doesn't translate the original experience that well? I can see that nowadays we do have PC motion controls with these hand equipment they use in VR gaming, but still: every single detail of the button layout was thought to work on Wii. That's why even in Heroes' Paradise it just isn't the same thing (there are more problems though). I know accessibility is a thing but still: i don't think that changes that modify the core experience will benefit a game that was basically tied to these kind of controls.
So, i just think i can trust Suda's call about porting these old games: they are way too motion focused and i think they should port properly in their own time. I can wait if they do the job.
I think porting FSR's PS2 version is a more urgent matter to be honest. While you can buy a Wii and play NMH1 and 2 for the true experience, FSR is still stuck to the damn DS port, which pretty much destroyed the peculiar aesthetic experience that FSR had.
If you guys are going to portbeg, please beg for FSR. It's the only old Kill The Past game that is not on Steam. I'm sure they announced the port, but still, no words about that. And that game would work great on PC, so...
Of course, that's just my opinion, but yeah: i'd rather wait for GHM to think of some good idea then beg and press them about something that has high probability of just not being as good as the original.
Meanwhile, both TSA and FSR's ports are probably going to give lots of work for them. Still, at first i was shocked, especially when we have almost every single Kill The Past game on Steam and TSA is a game that really benefits from playing previous No More Heroes titles. Heck, even previous GHM give this game more context.
So i understand it may be frustrating to get this game first on PC, at least before a remaster. But really: i think that they may need time to work on something good for the controls.
Let's just chill. We all like GHM here. We all love Suda51, and i think everyone here agrees that a NMH1 and 2 port/remaster would be a blast. But it's just not the right time, because it would also be a lot of work. TSA is easier to port and could give them the endorsement they need for the rest of the ports. No reason to discuss like that.
tl;dr GHM please port FSR
Can I get a straight answer on what wouldn't work if you simply used No More Heroes 2's classic controller set-up in the original No More Heroes?
I asked before and that other guy linked to two things that didn't explain anything, complained about Heroes Paradise as if that were relevant, and then all his comments exploded. Not very helpful.
The NMH games have almost totally identical controls with the Wiimote+Nunchuck as far I remember, motion stuff was able to be mapped to the classic controller in 2, and neither game really did all that much with the motion controls to my memory (mostly just tilting for high and low attacks and finishing blows to enemies). I haven't played either of them in a long time, though.
So what exactly wouldn't work?
What's with this zero sum game still? There's no reason we can't ask for both. There's no reason they couldn't eventually do both.
Any port or remake or remaster or whatever has a probability of not being as good as the original, so I'm not sure what that matters.
They could port Flower, Sun, and Rain and do an absolutely terrible job with it. Does this reality make you not want that port anymore?
It seems that any time any creator announces they're doing something new, the comments and threads are filled with people who have no interest in it, only in things they have nostalgia for. Massimo Guarini did an interest check on Twitter for Shadows of the Damned 2 and the comments were dominated by people saying they wanted a port of the original instead. And again, porting has nothing to do with the actual devs and everything to do with IP holders, publishers and third-party devs. The feeling I get from this is that nobody is actually interested in creators continuing to express themselves. That's why I brought up that Suda's games aren't actually successful on release. Support him now, not 10 years down the line when his career and reputation have taken a huge hit (again).
Travis Strikes Again is actually a huge example of this, I can't tell you how many times I've seen the sentiment of "why did Suda create this? he should have just ported NMH1 and 2 to the Switch instead." People who express this sentiment seem to see no value in Suda directing again for the first time in 10 years, because they just want to play the games they already played. Imagine how this feels to the devs (not so much Suda because he can't read English, but...), to get the message that nobody actually wants you to make something new as a creator, and their interest in you lies solely in your ability to rerelease things you made a decade ago. Imagine a film director announces they're making a new film and the comments are flooded with "would be nice if you could put your old movies on Netflix instead", as if that has anything to do with your creative process instead of being largely a question of rights.
Short version: There's nothing wrong with games getting ports, but GhM fans are bitter about the fact that Suda's actual new work has been almost completely ignored by everybody in the meantime.
Years ago, Suda told us all that a Travis Touchdown game was going to come to the Switch. Naturally, people expected No More Heroes III, and were unsurprisingly let down when they got Travis Strikes Again instead, a bog standard overhead action game with no voiced dialogue, and were told to support this it if they wanted a new No More Heroes.
Then No More Heroes III, a new game with Suda directing, was announced not too long ago, and everyone was perfectly happy.
So it really seems to me that the issue was people expecting the untitled "Travis Touchdown game" to be anything at all like the other games featuring Travis Touchdown, rather than the budget title they ultimately received.
The "He should have just ported NMH1 and 2 to the Switch instead" stuff was, as far as I can tell, mostly a response to using Travis Strikes Again to gauge interest in a new No More Heroes game.
Tons of people were worried they wouldn't get No More Heroes III if Travis Strikes Again failed to sell well (especially since TSA looked mediocre to many), so they would have preferred ports of NMH1 and 2 since they'd be cheaper to make and more likely to succeed (I don't know if ports would have actually performed better, but that was the logic).
People were asking for ports of old games because they wanted a new No More Heroes.
No, it's not an issue of new work or not.
Everything he's done that isn't No More Heroes, and to a much lesser extent, killer7, has never really gotten any attention at all.
I literally used my whole comment to justify why it isn't interesting. Being interesting matters if we want GHM to make a quality product instead of running into another FSR situation. If you don't care about quality, just get a NMH copy, extract the ISO, get a Wii BIOS legally and play in your PC. You'll be supporting GHM's future releases AND playing this game on your machine. It will be expensive, but that's basically the choppy controller port you are telling me to accept.
I want a Cadillac, i am not seeing it in my garage. That's because i wont sell my house and all my stuff to buy one damn Cadillac, that's the point. The investment needs to be worth it in the first place. A ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up port will just ruin this franchise's name. That's one of the main reasons Flower, Sun, and Rain is shunned in videogame media: it's a bad port. I don't think wishing that NMH1 had a meh port would do it justice, it would be a bad investment.
Playing NMH in a regular controller just wasn't the same thing. If you take out the motion control, NMH games are basic hack'n slash games, almost bland. I'm saying that as someone that finished both the Wii version and the PS3 one. The WHOLE point of NMH1 was using the motion controls to give some immersion into this hack'n slash adventure, with some gimmicky uses in the job parts. I mean, you may like doing that, but i think it's pretty hard to deny that any Devil May Cry game feels better to play with a controller, since motion controls are literally the core gameplay's appeal.
Because No More Heroes is a well known franchise and if they find out a way to adapt NMH1's gameplay style without simply adding a controller support and calling it a day, they'll do it. It may require some budget, but then again: NMH3 is knocking on our doors. If it sells well, i do think we may see it on Switch and maybe eventually on PC. I have my hopes on these VR hand controllers to compensate the lack of the Wii controller and motion plus.
There is a huge difference between porting a game that the controllers are really simple and you basically just have to adapt a PS2 version into the PC, similar to how Killer7 was ported, but even more simple because Killer7 has a unique controller scheme. A game which the only big issue is porting the DS translation to the new version based on the PS2's graphics...
... and porting a WHOLE EXPERIENCE based on motion controllers, in which you'll find some trouble in having a similar feel to it.
Even if they make a bad FSR port and force me to go into forums searching for fixes, Deadly Premonition style, there's no way they'll mistake the controller scheme. Even if they do screw up, i think a community fix wouldn't be that hard to make. No More Heroes's whole CORE GAMEPLAY may feel like a bland hack'n slash game to many if they just do that, and there's no fix for that, because it relies on specific hardware.
I mean, i respect your opinion, but i really care about how this port is going to work. Meanwhile, we still have some Suda games that would work better in a PC without any kind of weird gimmick. We should just give GHM some support for what they're already releasing on the PC, since it's a small company after all. I don't think that giving them a load of pressure because of NMH1 would help them. I do agree it's kinda ♥♥♥♥♥♥ to only have TSA on Steam, but damn, i think you got the point.