The Waterfall Nerf needs to be reverted

[Pchkoechophe]

Making it move 3X slower was just unwarranted. Waterfall wasn't broken or OP because it requires you to stand in the exact same position and follow the boss with it, as well as build a whole flow deck around it. It feels slow and awful and in no way is worth the work you have to put into making this spell work.

[tmkang]

True, I'll keep an eye on it. But I didn't want it to be the only spell you need to deal damage in the deck if that makes sense. It of course synergizes well with Roots and timestops because of the exact positioning. I'll try to find a better balance for it.

[:D?]

as well as build a whole flow deck around it

I don't really think that's a fair way of phrasing it. A two-spell deck consisting of any Flow spell and Waterfall can easily win, and typically there's not a high opportunity cost because there are so many common Flow spells good for direct damage (Tremor, Coldstone, Fracture).

I haven't gotten my hands on Waterfall post-patch, but pre-patch I won so many times with it that I've started avoiding it, so anything that dissuades me from picking it up Just Because It's There sounds pretty nice to me.

[Xuande]

Echo exists. A variety of 2-card combos responsible for 100% of a deck's damage exist.

For all of the various weak incentives to make a large deck that exist, none of them are sufficient payoffs for the consistency lost. Upgrades exponentially increase the power of a card, yet the cost to upgrade is linear, further boosting the advantage of running a smaller deck.

So long as the top Hell Mode difficulty is based around forcing the player to start with 1 MHP (or Shopkeeper), min/maxing is going to be required for most players. And in this game, min/maxing means using one of the handful of powerful low-rarity, low-card-count combos that still exist.

On a side note, this patch broke Steam achievements. I got two of them today that were undeserved - killing a boss at 1 HP (when Reva revives the player then you win without getting hit again), and reaching 10k Shield (putting the Gate to 10k counts).

[MayamSP]

Uh. Waterfall only gives 1 flow per hit so I don't think waterfall + echo 2 spell deck combo will work, like at all. Unless you give a flow upgrade to waterfall or have any artifact that gives flow stacks then it will start snowballing slowly (slow because of the shuffle time involved in small decks). Same with a regular flow spell + waterfall 2 spell deck. It only snowballs in damage very quickly if you have multiple spells that each increase 2 flow.

Despite that I still feel like waterfall is well balanced and does not need further buffs or nerfs. I recently pulled off a flow spells only deck. Barrier and waterfall quickly snowballed and got me 6000+ shield. It's a great wall killer too since you don't have to aim much there.