Co-Op Too Hard, No Benefits

[HOAI]

In Co-Op, you play the same character with a shared health pool, shared cards, as well as a shared mana pool. Both players act as separate active hurtboxes so if both players are hit, it effectively becomes double damage. You don't even share shields despite sharing health with one another. You are also split into one player using the left card and the other with the right card- the players do not have a choice of which card to use. One player could also be stuck with a non-useful card until the deck is shuffled, which then shuffles it for both players who only have one card to use at any given moment.

I'm really confused as to why there are limitations on top of limitations here since it's already hard enough to share a mana pool, but to also not even be able to choose which card or share shields?

I was really (I mean REALLY) excited to match my partner and create our own unique playstyles that would work together with the many card types in the game, but was disappointed to find out it feels like Co-Op was perhaps shoehorned in toward the end of development.

I love the game as it normally is but the Co-Op is way too difficult to make any kind of meaningful progress. As in, I might as well be playing Singleplayer only because we can actually get past the first 2-3 areas, let alone the first.

I really hope there are updates to either individualize the two player characters or add some benefits for playing Co-Op. It doesn't have to be massive changes other than the ability for both players to build a deck. You could always combine the characters' health pools and share the shields, which would work just fine without making major compromises. The current state of mana management also makes builds focusing on anything 2+ cost impossible (as both players fight for resources), even though I think shared mana makes the Co-Op experience interesting. For that reason, it might just need some tweaks, instead of an overhaul.

As it is, there really is no reason for anyone to be playing Co-Op, unless there's some other non-obvious benefit (such as having it in the first place which is admittedly nice) that I haven't taken into account.

The 2P colour palette could use some work too, as they're too similar to the 1P colour and makes it hard to distinguish in the midst of all the bullets and indicators.

Hoping that there are updates to make it more unique and enjoyable, especially in regards to the aspects above.

EDIT: I just wanted to add, it's honestly really, really fun. We can only seem to pass more than 1 boss as the default character, unfortunately. This isn't an issue in Singleplayer. I hope this comes across as some good feedback to help improve upon the Co-Op mode because I think I actually enjoy it even more than Singleplayer. A game like this is so perfect for it.

[Sephka]

My roommate wanted to play this game with me, but when we booted up Co-op, we saw the myriad issues with it, and just said forget it. He may or may not play at some point, but it's a shame that the game has co-op, but it's essentially unplayable, especially with how difficult the game is (especially for someone like him who never played MMBN)

Co-op would have to be entirely reworked to be enjoyable at this point though. I can't imagine this is super high on the priority list for the devs. A shame, but maybe they'll be able to get to it someday.

[wik]

Wow I haven't tried co-op yet, but that sounds like a nightmare. Totally not what I was expecting.

[D-Burgundy]

Good to know. Hopefully multi-player gets some updates in the future after addressing other things in Single-player/the game in general to allow different characters, a larger starting deck size to share, and separate pools of HP and Mana (or at the very least faster mana regen).

Even if it was a last minute add-in, it is nice to have a co-op option at all. In the interim, I'd probably try using cheat engine as alternative (not encouraging anything wild or crazy for the anti-cheat engine crowd out there, especially since I use cheat engine only to enable turbo speeds and make games harder in single-player/offline only titles) to raise some of your max parameters for co-op runs a little to make it more fair for you.

Finding the values isn't too difficult and the program comes with a tutorial for it. I also play things in offline mode if using Cheat Engine as a safe habit since there are a handful of offline/single-player games that don't like it for w/e reason. Modding is also an option, but not as straightforward. But, yeah...maybe it'll be addressed officially one day.

[HOAI]

Originally posted by Sephka:

My roommate wanted to play this game with me, but when we booted up Co-op, we saw the myriad issues with it, and just said forget it. He may or may not play at some point, but it's a shame that the game has co-op, but it's essentially unplayable, especially with how difficult the game is (especially for someone like him who never played MMBN)

Co-op would have to be entirely reworked to be enjoyable at this point though. I can't imagine this is super high on the priority list for the devs. A shame, but maybe they'll be able to get to it someday.

Yeah I can't imagine Co-Op being a priority in any way.

I really wish it was though, because there are a lot of my friends who are starved Battle Network fans who would love to play something like this. Co-Op would be one of the most incredible and involved ways to bring new fans into this game.

I'd be going around showing this off and asking people to play for a long time. Oh, and especially with the Switch release as a lot of couples, families, and roommates play Switch games together.

[Qelris]

I also tried Coop with a friend yesterday and we were left disappointed. I'm hoping there will be some changes regarding that game mode. If not, then whatever. I bought it to play by myself anyway. This was could have been a nice little extra.

[DonutSteel]

It's unbelievable to me that people are seeing "deckbuilding" and "roguelite" tags on a game that is obviously was made to milk the StS train and still buy it and then complain that it is bad. LIKE... HOW???

[HOAI]

Originally posted by DonutSteel:

It's unbelievable to me that people are seeing "deckbuilding" and "roguelite" tags on a game that is obviously was made to milk the StS train and still buy it and then complain that it is bad. LIKE... HOW???

No clue, because the game is incredible in most ways, and assuming the devs will continue development- it'll probably just get better. It isn't quite perfect yet but it's unique and has tons of potential. I never knew how much I wanted Co-Op in a game like this, so I'm really hoping it gets improved upon despite its likely low priority.

[Matex]

just wait for mods, if there is a mod that removes the deck aspect the game will be much better, you can tell the game is not made for StS deck building, instead char presets.

[Dawnbomb]

Lets mods fix it, i hope the devs to nothing to the mode. only add options, not change anything current. And if anything does happen, a toggle for it. I don't want to see more devs fall into empty community complaints because casuals suck to much.

Also, really @sephka you gonna put your roomate whos never played this GENRE before into whats literally the hardest entry ever made for the genre as far as i can tell, and complain to the devs for making a difficult game? maybe instead actually let your friend learn the game first instead of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ all over him, or the developers.

[Godlyvexx]

Originally posted by DonutSteel:

It's unbelievable to me that people are seeing "deckbuilding" and "roguelite" tags on a game that is obviously was made to milk the StS train and still buy it and then complain that it is bad. LIKE... HOW???

You're clearly not paying attention. They're not complaining that the game is bad, they're complaining that the side-mode is bad.

[[BearCatAi]Joey]

Yeah in my opinion just the simple change of ATLEAST letting us have separate mana bars would then make co op more like a glass cannon type of exchange.
Where both players can really spit out damage but due to shared hp and deck and no i frames can still die in seconds from sustained fire hitting both players

[HOAI]

Originally posted by Dawnbomb:

Lets mods fix it, i hope the devs to nothing to the mode. only add options, not change anything current. And if anything does happen, a toggle for it. I don't want to see more devs fall into empty community complaints because casuals suck to much.

Also, really @sephka you gonna put your roomate whos never played this GENRE before into whats literally the hardest entry ever made for the genre as far as i can tell, and complain to the devs for making a difficult game? maybe instead actually let your friend learn the game first instead of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ all over him, or the developers.

Were you able to beat the Co-Op? The singleplayer is perfectly doable, but the Co-Op is nigh impossible beyond stage 3. I'd love to watch a completed Co-Op run. I do think a customizeable level of Co-Op would be nice since it isn't the main attraction, and mods could probably make the small tweaks needed aside from being able to play 2 different characters.

I didn't really see anything that I could define 'sh**ting on their friend or the devs' from that user, just complaints about the difficulty of Co-Op compounded on top of the game's regular difficulty. The main game is hard but it isn't anything ridiculous. Co-Op on the other hand is pretty inaccessible, especially when Co-Op is often designed to help others introduce their friends to a game, which is a valid statement given that objective. People who are good at a game don't often think, "I wish I could play this with someone else who's potentially not as good as me". Co-Op often serves to bring new players in but not when it takes away from the experience and leaves a bad taste in new players' mouths (when being introduced via Co-Op).

It is a bit of a shame that people are calling for major changes to the game where they aren't needed. I've been seeing threads like that pop up. I don't think the game needs speed or difficulty changes at all, but I'd welcome an optional choice. If StS doesn't need difficulty options, this doesn't either. In fact, it only gets harder in StS.

[Tasslehoff_B]

Yeah, I wasn't expecting a co-op or a PvP mode when I bought the game. I was excited to see them in the menu, and then equally disappointed when I tried them out with a friend and realized how utterly unfun they are.

I see several people saying the multiplayer is "better than nothing" but I really don't think it is. The single-player game stands fine on its own. It would be great to have real co-op at some point, but what's in the game now feels totally bizarre.

[[BearCatAi]Joey]

Game just updated with a 2x faster mana regen speed in co op!
Gonna test later today but thought I'd let this thread know about it incase they missed the patch notes

[MimicMachine]

The dev is often open to suggestions if you leave them in the suggestion thread or on the suggestion area in the discord.

I believe some wanted to keep this mode and have the dev add in extra modes for coop. I think this is a nicer way to do it since we could have other modes for coop but keep this one in for people who want it (with some fine tuning of course).