Spell Power manuals and vague descriptions

[exteel.golem]

Apparently I'm in a data mining mood today because I pulled some more numbers out of the game. This time it's regarding Spell Power Manuals. I got tired of all of the vague adjectives like "Slightly", "Greatly", "Significantly", etc., so I started saving and reloading and recording the changes. I really hope these numbers aren't already somewhere that I wasn't aware of and I just duplicated effort...

Method:
I used a spreadsheet with four columns: Before, After, If Flat, and If Percent.

"If Flat" = After - Before
"If Percent" = After / Before

I did this once for each manual, then learned one of them, recorded the new value and went through each manual again to compare.

Results:
* Mortality Records, 2 Attainment, +267%, "Extends Lifespan. Increases Spell Power."
* Harmonious Chant, 3 Attainment, +167%, "Increase your Spell Power."
* Steadfast Incantation, 3 Attainment, +267%, "Increases Temperature Tolerance. Increases Spell Power."
* Mana Codex, 4 Attainment, +20% (not a typo!), "Greatly increases Spell Power."
* Reincarnated Form, 8 Attainment, +600%, "Significantly increases Spell Power."

I definitely encourage anyone to verify my findings for themselves. For the most part the adjectives make sense, but one of these is definitely not like the others. I don't know if Mana Codex is mistranslated and "Greatly" should be "Slightly", but it also costs 4 attainment compared to the others, so maybe it's a coding typo? But even if it was missing a zero, it would still be oddly placed. The benefit-to-attainment cost ratio also seems a bit off on some of the manuals that also come with a utility benefit, like Mortality Records versus Harmonious Chant.

This is obviously a small sample set but it's what my Cultivator currently had access to. When I rebirth him I'll probably go ahead and add all of the "Spell Power" manuals to my spreadsheet so I can actually look at the numbers instead of vague, inconsistent adjectives. I am thoroughly enjoying this game, but certain design choices like this are definitely head scratchers.

[Normal Paradox]

What was your base spell stat that you used for your test ?
It's possible that the +200++% skills are in fact flat increase and that the mana codex is a % increase but that your base stat is too low to see it's real use.
When you give experiment number always give us your repository or else it could mean anything.

[ArcanisCz]

I would also like to see exact numbers ingame instead of vague description (or at least option to do so). I noticed similar effect in max-qi manuals. Several "greatly increases ...." are wildly varying (not sure about exact names now).

[exteel.golem]

@Normal Paradox Sure, that's fair. Here's a quick google sheet I threw up with the numbers:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iQc_JHkNE6FkQg27zsa07WUH8vCUjycrUGJtoltQ9hM/edit?usp=sharing

If there's a base number for Spell Power that's separate from the current value like there is for Max Qi, it's not listed anywhere in the UI that I can see. I went off the same number for all of the manuals.

Quick samples:

First test: 318.75 spell power + Mana Codex = 382.50 spell power (20% increase)
Second test: 850.00 spell power + Mana Codex = 1020.00 spell power (20% increase)

First test: 318.75 spell power + Mortality Records = 1,168.75 (267% increase)
Second test: 382.50 spell power + Mortality Records = 1,402.50 (267% increase)

If Mortality Records was flat, it should be providing the same flat increase each time no? Instead it gave +850 the first time and +1,020 the second time, which makes sense if it's a percentage. The multiplication also matched both times to the last decimal place. I think I'm thinking about this right no?

I'll check the numbers again when I use them for another character with different starting values and see if I get the same % increases.

[Normal Paradox]

You should try the same thing but starting with reincarnated form instead of mana codex to see if some of the % increase are base stat related or max stat related.
Maybe Mana codex apply to the max stat value which would be much more beneficial the more you have base stat % increase.
For Max Qi you have 4 mechanics : the base stat flat increase (spirit seed), the base stat % increase (earth flux), the max stat flat increase (red ginseng) and the max stat % increase (wicked flux).
I suppose it's the same with other stats.
Ps : it could still be a wrong translation. :)

[exteel.golem]

@Normal Paradox: In this case we're talking about Spell Power so I'm not sure where in-game you can see "base Spell Power" vs "current/max Spell Power". As far as trying it with different manuals first, I did exactly what you suggested in this sample:

First test: 318.75 spell power + Mana Codex = 382.50 spell power (20% increase)
Second test: 850.00 spell power + Mana Codex = 1020.00 spell power (20% increase)

That second test was after applying Harmonious Chant:

318.75 * 2.67 = 851 (I assume a floor function was applied which gave me the 850 in-game).

Just to do another test, my Cultivator's current Spell Power is 7,756.25%, far larger than the 318.75 I started my tests with. Let's apply Mana Codex again and see what happens:

7756.25 + Mana Codex = 9307.50%

9307.50 / 7756.25 = 1.2, an exact 20% increase. If it's a flat amount, it just added 1551.25, in which case, why didn't it add that amount earlier? Whether I start with 318.75, 850, or 7756.25, Mana Codex applied a net 20% increase each time.

If this is correct and I'm not making a mistake somewhere, this is a bummer, because it means spell manual descriptions can't be trusted. I plan on tracking the rest of the numbers for manuals going forward anyway.

I've already done quite a few utility ones as well, such as mental state and adventure fly speed manuals. Once I build up a larger set and I've had a chance to verify them with multiple input values and characters, I'll add them to a public sheet.

[zoncxs]

From the numbers, it looks like mana codex is applying an overall 1.2 where the others are adding together. What it looks like to me:

(SpellPower) x (a+b+c) = (NewSpellPower)
(SP x (a+b+c)) x (ManaCodex) = NSP

So the other spell power boosting effect are adding up together while Mana Codex is multiplying all of that by 1.2 I will let you guys double check that because I am unfortunately not able to get to my pc right now to check the math.

So do the following: apply all boosting effect except Mana Codex. Then apply Mana Codex. It should show a +20% difference.

Second would be to apply Mana Codex first, then everything else. If this number matches the first then yeah, Mana Codex is most likely a translation error and also sucks. If the first is higher then now we know to apply it last for a bigger boost. If it's less then the world is ending.

[exteel.golem]

Unfortunately zoncxs, I did just that. I used Mana Codex both first and last, and the increases from all manuals was the same percentage in each case. My final Spell Power at the end was also the same in both cases, which makes sense since multiplication is commutative. If someone else tests an order that comes out with a different result, I'll gladly run the same test to verify. Healthy skepticism is good with these kinds of things. I just haven't seen anyone else present actual numbers or tests of their own yet.

[destiny5554]

I played on chinese version of the game so Im not familiar of the skill name, one possibility is that mana codex is low level spell, so it was greatly compare to other skill at the same level?