KSP 2 - Pleas allow casuals to go to other planets too!

[Bitcoin Baron]

I hope they add a mode where the journey can be automated fully (press button and it will get you into orbit around the target planet) as this was always frustratingly impossible in this game. Watched tutorials, could never get close. It was really fun getting out to minmus, but beyond that was always impossible. I hope they have an option to make the game enjoyable in this respect for casual games.

A lot of people says mechjeb should be capable of this, but I cant figure out how to work it, and the one time I got it to do something it just went into orbit around kerbin.... the completely wrong planet!

[Mastah]

Bitcoin Baron님이 먼저 게시:

Lol wow, 4 pages of people still missing the point. The point suggested was this be an optional feature for people who can't -i repeat- simply CANNOT get past the minmus barrier no matter what learning resources they look at. It's not to force people that want the next game the way it is, to have to play a "dumbed down" game.

It's a suggested completely optional feature which helps people who cannot learn those things to enjoy the experience of at least going to other planets. Sure, that would require some development resources. HOWEVER, as to whether or not this "takes away" resources from other areas, that is not a given. This is dependant on how the developer plans the creation of the game. Put simply, the other areas of the game wouldn't suffer a lack of development, unless the dev's choose that route.

But yeah so many people going "I can do it, if you can't you're too stupid for this game" is a really toxic attitude. Go play other, easier games? There isn't such a one like KSP. The ethos of inclusivity apalls you? Perhaps broaden your horizons.

There's no such thing as "absolutely cant do" you can learn how to draw, how to sing, how to do math, how to play Kerbal. It's just a matter of being willing to put down the practice to learn to do the thing.

I you think the time to learn how to play a game is not worth it then don't play that game, or just use the debug menu, you can already teleport your ship around with that in KSP1 and I'm sure that something similar is going to be a thing in KSP2.

I never reached the end game in Oxygen not Included, I never completed a Dyson Sphere in DSP, I never finished Terraria, I never finished Rimworld, I never finished a run of Factorio in solo (plenty in coop), but guess what? I'm not crying in those game's forums to lower the game difficulty or to add a "you win" "completely optional" button just for me, I love them the way they are and, on rotation, I do a run of those games every few months and I enjoy getting a little farther than the previous time I played them and I love them the way they are.

BTW I suck at doing interplanetary missions in KSP too, not that I'm unable, but surely I'm inefficient as hell and I always need to pack way more Delta V than the theoretic requirements.

[GunsForBucks]

Mastah님이 먼저 게시:

Bitcoin Baron님이 먼저 게시:

Lol wow, 4 pages of people still missing the point. The point suggested was this be an optional feature for people who can't -i repeat- simply CANNOT get past the minmus barrier no matter what learning resources they look at. It's not to force people that want the next game the way it is, to have to play a "dumbed down" game.

It's a suggested completely optional feature which helps people who cannot learn those things to enjoy the experience of at least going to other planets. Sure, that would require some development resources. HOWEVER, as to whether or not this "takes away" resources from other areas, that is not a given. This is dependant on how the developer plans the creation of the game. Put simply, the other areas of the game wouldn't suffer a lack of development, unless the dev's choose that route.

But yeah so many people going "I can do it, if you can't you're too stupid for this game" is a really toxic attitude. Go play other, easier games? There isn't such a one like KSP. The ethos of inclusivity apalls you? Perhaps broaden your horizons.

There's no such thing as "absolutely cant do" you can learn how to draw, how to sing, how to do math, how to play Kerbal. It's just a matter of being willing to put down the practice to learn to do the thing.

I you think the time to learn how to play a game is not worth it then don't play that game, or just use the debug menu, you can already teleport your ship around with that in KSP1 and I'm sure that something similar is going to be a thing in KSP2.

I never reached the end game in Oxygen not Included, I never completed a Dyson Sphere in DSP, I never finished Terraria, I never finished Rimworld, I never finished a run of Factorio in solo (plenty in coop), but guess what? I'm not crying in those game's forums to lower the game difficulty or to add a "you win" "completely optional" button just for me, I love them the way they are and, on rotation, I do a run of those games every few months and I enjoy getting a little farther than the previous time I played them and I love them the way they are.

BTW I suck at doing interplanetary missions in KSP too, not that I'm unable, but surely I'm inefficient as hell and I always need to pack way more Delta V than the theoretic requirements.

I've never used mods or looked anything up online so I have no idea what the theoretic requirements even are for places.... MOAR BOOSTERS is all I need ha ha.
Never even seen a launch window thingy.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2307813234


Sent out probes first to figure out orbital distances and speeds. That told me about what class of gravity the celestial body had and then planned landers based on that info. Still have not landed on Tylo, that place is just evil. Take a lot of work and refueling just to land.<safely>

[Chilkoot]

Mastah님이 먼저 게시:

There's no such thing as "absolutely cant do" you can learn how to draw, how to sing

This is 100% incorrect at best, and hurtful/demeaning to other players at worst.

I was a voice coach for years, and I can say unequivocally a portion of the population are unable to fine-tune the pitch produced by their vocal chords. They are incapable of matching what they're hearing and producing from themselves vs what's in their surroundings (or head) they they need to tune to. This is not the same as tone deaf, but it affects maybe 12%-15% of the population, and there is no "just get gud" way around it. I spent years trying to overcome this with one of my own children - along with a vocal therapist - and no dice.

That's one example. Truly tone-deaf people account for maybe 3%-5% of the population, and are similarly untrainable, though this is a different problem.

The "I gotta be right, no matter who I insult" mentality really needs to die. Like seriously shame on you for suggesting people who are struggling to learn are simply not trying hard enough.

Mastah님이 먼저 게시:

BTW I suck

No, but your attitude towards everyone-but-Mastah sure as hell does.

[Mastah]

Chilkoot님이 먼저 게시:

The "I gotta be right, no matter who I insult" mentality really needs to die. Like seriously shame on you for suggesting people who are struggling to learn are simply not trying hard enough.

People asking autopilots aren't "trying hard" are asking to change the game to accomodate the fact that they don't want to learn how to play.

And about the whole voice coach bit, it's obvious that if I say "everybody can learn to dance" I'm not trying to insult people with physical problems.

[MLXIX]

I don't understand this entire pointless discussion. Even if the devs don't implement any kind of assist, there will be mods available. The MechJeb mod will return for sure, and everyone will be happy. You can play with or without it as you desire and nobody can force you against your will.

Doing a perfect gravity turn manually is impossible. You will never hit that 100% curve since the trajectory involves solving an entire system of differential equations. Good luck to you all solving it for every launch. MechJeb computes a very good approximation based on your ship's statistics. The devs couldn't implement that even if they wanted.

So everyone can just relax. Let the devs focus on making the game great with more parts, systems, mechanics, optimization and multiplayer, and let modders bring out additional tools to make the game customizable. It will take a while after launch ofc. This gives you time to experiment the game vanilla first, which is what I do with every game. After I get a good grasp on it, I add mods to enhance my experience.

Also devs said that KSP 2 was built with mods in mind from the beginning, because they saw how essential mods were for the first game.

[Gikkio]

There are games in which you have to apply yourself, if you are unable to do anything else, do not ask for the game to be changed because you do not want to apply yourself even for the minimum. it's ridiculous.

[LittleBlueDuneBuggy]

Bitcoin Baron님이 먼저 게시:

Lol wow, 4 pages of people still missing the point. The point suggested was this be an optional feature for people who can't -i repeat- simply CANNOT get past the minmus barrier no matter what learning resources they look at. It's not to force people that want the next game the way it is, to have to play a "dumbed down" game.

It's a suggested completely optional feature which helps people who cannot learn those things to enjoy the experience of at least going to other planets. Sure, that would require some development resources. HOWEVER, as to whether or not this "takes away" resources from other areas, that is not a given. This is dependant on how the developer plans the creation of the game. Put simply, the other areas of the game wouldn't suffer a lack of development, unless the dev's choose that route.

But yeah so many people going "I can do it, if you can't you're too stupid for this game" is a really toxic attitude. Go play other, easier games? There isn't such a one like KSP. The ethos of inclusivity apalls you? Perhaps broaden your horizons.

You see "optional". The rest of us see "wasted coding time".

[Maizel]

I don't mind a one click button. It helps for Routine launches. But I already notice I use Mechjeb way too much, so I can see myself not launching anything manually. I am a weak man

[Bodat]

You know p2 is multiplayer right? You uh, need a ride bro?

2000 plebs online trying to make a payday off tutorials and your crying they should slow the game down (more). To do whats literally guaranteed to be done for them a month out the gate by someone clearly not capable of the programming aspect? (cough* for free) I don't like youtube, to me that's cheating, but I am AWARE of it's existence. Every problem you have is solved with the new "optional" multiplayer design embedded. So phone a friend, create a mod, hell I will leave a seat open for you. Just stop trying to turn this game into the trash everyone else is selling us.

[MechBFP]

There is no need for this because the game will be multiplayer. Just gotta join a game with someone who knows what they are doing and hitch a ride. Same result, no additional effort required.

[Spork Witch]

Maizel님이 먼저 게시:

I don't mind a one click button. It helps for Routine launches. But I already notice I use Mechjeb way too much, so I can see myself not launching anything manually. I am a weak man

I think an argument could be made for "recording" a launch with a saved vessel and payload, and "replaying" that, for those routine launches. It forces you to achieve it yourself first, THEN you don't have to do it over again, but it would also peg the costs to how well you flew it yourself; really inefficient launch? Well every launch you "replay" from that will be just as inefficient.

Especially with the planned colonization mechanics, I can definitely see a need for some degree of automation for routine supply runs. Doing it this way would be a lot better and more interesting than the "tokens" used in mods like UKS.

EDIT: And just to be clear, I'm 100% against any automation that doesn't require you having done the thing yourself first. I see automation as removing the tedium of things you've already accomplished, not as a means of turning a simulation into a city-building or strategy game. This is how I play my existing KSP save: I fly up new additions myself, do new missions to places myself, but resupplying my stations? I already built an SSTO to do that, flew it myself, and returned safely; doing those supply runs over and over is just tedious and time consuming, so I cheat a rendesvous instead to make the delivery. It's not about removing the challenge (I already surmounted that challenge), it's about removing the tedium and repetition, so I can focus on expanding and doing new stuff.

[Mastah]

Spork Witch님이 먼저 게시:

Maizel님이 먼저 게시:

I don't mind a one click button. It helps for Routine launches. But I already notice I use Mechjeb way too much, so I can see myself not launching anything manually. I am a weak man

I think an argument could be made for "recording" a launch with a saved vessel and payload, and "replaying" that, for those routine launches. It forces you to achieve it yourself first, THEN you don't have to do it over again, but it would also peg the costs to how well you flew it yourself; really inefficient launch? Well every launch you "replay" from that will be just as inefficient.

Especially with the planned colonization mechanics, I can definitely see a need for some degree of automation for routine supply runs. Doing it this way would be a lot better and more interesting than the "tokens" used in mods like UKS.

EDIT: And just to be clear, I'm 100% against any automation that doesn't require you having done the thing yourself first. I see automation as removing the tedium of things you've already accomplished, not as a means of turning a simulation into a city-building or strategy game. This is how I play my existing KSP save: I fly up new additions myself, do new missions to places myself, but resupplying my stations? I already built an SSTO to do that, flew it myself, and returned safely; doing those supply runs over and over is just tedious and time consuming, so I cheat a rendesvous instead to make the delivery. It's not about removing the challenge (I already surmounted that challenge), it's about removing the tedium and repetition, so I can focus on expanding and doing new stuff.

Not only an argument could be made about that, a system of that kind was confirmed more than a year ago and nobody is against that.

[Spork Witch]

Mastah님이 먼저 게시:

Spork Witch님이 먼저 게시:

I think an argument could be made for "recording" a launch with a saved vessel and payload, and "replaying" that, for those routine launches. It forces you to achieve it yourself first, THEN you don't have to do it over again, but it would also peg the costs to how well you flew it yourself; really inefficient launch? Well every launch you "replay" from that will be just as inefficient.

Especially with the planned colonization mechanics, I can definitely see a need for some degree of automation for routine supply runs. Doing it this way would be a lot better and more interesting than the "tokens" used in mods like UKS.

EDIT: And just to be clear, I'm 100% against any automation that doesn't require you having done the thing yourself first. I see automation as removing the tedium of things you've already accomplished, not as a means of turning a simulation into a city-building or strategy game. This is how I play my existing KSP save: I fly up new additions myself, do new missions to places myself, but resupplying my stations? I already built an SSTO to do that, flew it myself, and returned safely; doing those supply runs over and over is just tedious and time consuming, so I cheat a rendesvous instead to make the delivery. It's not about removing the challenge (I already surmounted that challenge), it's about removing the tedium and repetition, so I can focus on expanding and doing new stuff.

Not only an argument could be made about that, a system of that kind was confirmed more than a year ago and nobody is against that.

I haven't been following too closely, in line with my "don't get hyped, don't get disappointed" policy heh. Wasn't aware that was confirmed.

[Gikkio]

♥♥♥♥ YOU! You've already ruined simulators like Flight simulator with your ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. If it's not a type of game you want to play and you are able to play, TAKE ANOTHER GAME.
Don't bother with those who have been in the title for centuries, play the game to get involved and have fun.
IT IS YOU who fit the title, if the title isn't for you PLAY MORE instead of busting balls.
Kerbal has always been a challenge, as is going into space. If you don't have the balls and brains to face the challenge, PLAY ANOTHER GAME!
The best feature of KERBAL has always been the challenge, if you want to fool around and take screenshots go play star citizen or minecraft.

[Spork Witch]

GIKKIO님이 먼저 게시:

♥♥♥♥ YOU! You've already ruined simulators like Flight simulator with your ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. If it's not a type of game you want to play and you are able to play, TAKE ANOTHER GAME.
Don't bother with those who have been in the title for centuries, play the game to get involved and have fun.
IT IS YOU who fit the title, if the title isn't for you PLAY MORE instead of busting balls.
Kerbal has always been a challenge, as is going into space. If you don't have the balls and brains to face the challenge, PLAY ANOTHER GAME!
The best feature of KERBAL has always been the challenge, if you want to fool around and take screenshots go play star citizen or minecraft.

But Dark Souls would just be so much more appealing if you had more health and didn't drop your money when you die! XD