Scanner + Log = OP

[Russ Rockjaw]

What is the counter play to this? Personoids can't lie or or point fingers and refusing a scan is as good as admitting your guilt. Not very fun in my opinion.

[Kunovega]

If you don't know how to lie or point fingers, that's on you. Get the logs and scanner first and lie about them to get humans killed. Or sabo the logs and waste the scanner, your choice.

[Salamimann]

check out the thread below this one and junovega explains it quite well :)

[Russ Rockjaw]

I get that grabbing the scanner first is a good way to stop it but what am i supposed to do if the residents have the scanner and they are just getting logs and scanning? I can't lie my way out of that.

I think having one of them is fine but both in unison are not fun to play against.

[Kunovega]

So you basically want to win without the other side having any way to beat you?

"One or the other" is meaningless for the humans as they can't trust each other either. These are the tools they require to even have a chance to win, at all.

I don't think you understand social deduction games or how to manipulate people, you seem to want to be able to just stand around and win while the humans don't have any way to figure out who the personoids are while not being able to trust each other either.

[Russ Rockjaw]

Originally posted by Kunovega:

So you basically want to win without the other side having any way to beat you?

"One or the other" is meaningless for the humans as they can't trust each other either. These are the tools they require to even have a chance to win, at all.

I don't think you understand social deduction games or how to manipulate people, you seem to want to be able to just stand around and win while the humans don't have any way to figure out who the personoids are while not being able to trust each other either.

I have played many physical and digital social deduction games. When you out right remove the way for the "bad guy" to deceive without any way to change it then the game is slanted in favor of the "good guys". The logs by themselves provide enough evidence to help identify personoids and the scanners also provide the same benefit. But when you have a publicly known log and a scanner it is too difficult to play against it.

4 names are revealed on the first log with at least one personoid on them meaning the players a have a 25% chance of just guessing correctly. Now if you are a resident and you get the scanner first then you can scan one of the three left on the list and then the crew has a 50/50 choice to kill a personoid. This gets worse as the list gets smaller.

[Russ Rockjaw]

Originally posted by Salamimann:

check out the thread below this one and junovega explains it quite well :)

I did read some of that post. That OP seems to want to remove the mechanics outright. What I want to know is what am I supposed to do if the residents get the scanner and I keep appearing on logs. How am I supposed to counter-play this seemingly impossible situation?

As far as I know once the scanner is in their hands there is no way for me to stop it. If they dropped the scanner when they get bottled would be nice.

[Kunovega]

Originally posted by Russ Rockjaw:

Originally posted by Salamimann:

check out the thread below this one and junovega explains it quite well :)

I did read some of that post. That OP seems to want to remove the mechanics outright. What I want to know is what am I supposed to do if the residents get the scanner and I keep appearing on logs. How am I supposed to counter-play this seemingly impossible situation?

As far as I know once the scanner is in their hands there is no way for me to stop it. If they dropped the scanner when they get bottled would be nice.

And you think humans don't appear on the logs?

Are you not capable of either getting the logs first and lying about what's on them or sabotaging them?

Why didn't you go get the scanner?

Why didn't you kill the person trying to get the scanner?

Why didn't you do anything other than watch them do exactly what they are supposed to do to reveal you?

Originally posted by Russ Rockjaw:

Originally posted by Kunovega:

So you basically want to win without the other side having any way to beat you?

"One or the other" is meaningless for the humans as they can't trust each other either. These are the tools they require to even have a chance to win, at all.

I don't think you understand social deduction games or how to manipulate people, you seem to want to be able to just stand around and win while the humans don't have any way to figure out who the personoids are while not being able to trust each other either.

I have played many physical and digital social deduction games. When you out right remove the way for the "bad guy" to deceive without any way to change it then the game is slanted in favor of the "good guys". The logs by themselves provide enough evidence to help identify personoids and the scanners also provide the same benefit. But when you have a publicly known log and a scanner it is too difficult to play against it.

4 names are revealed on the first log with at least one personoid on them meaning the players a have a 25% chance of just guessing correctly. Now if you are a resident and you get the scanner first then you can scan one of the three left on the list and then the crew has a 50/50 choice to kill a personoid. This gets worse as the list gets smaller.

You are complaining that they have a 25% or 50% chance of being right.

So you want them to have a less than 50% chance at winning? It wouldn't matter, that still doesn't give them the win, at most it might reveal one personoid and only if the personoids aren't actively working against them to control the situation better.

You also ignore the fact that the information is not given or confirmed to everyone. Each human already knows it's not them, but the others can't know if what they are told is a lie.

If you are letting multiple people use multiple tools to verify, that's your own fault. Each match is fast, it's only 10 to 15 minutes long, how exactly do you think they are supposed to have any chance at winning wihthout logs and scanners? It's your job to either get there first and lie, trick them into going away with you to kill them or team up to slow them down while the oxygen runs out (And take turns sabotaging)

It won't even matter if they know you're the personoid if you use the quick travels to avoid them and just sabotage your way around the floors. Personoids start with the advantage and your complaint is that the humans might get a 50/50 chance to win if you are stupid enough to let them coordinate without you interfering or actually doing anything

Good job not actually understanding how the game is played

[Russ Rockjaw]

@kunovega instead of being a snarky ass you could offer some strategies.

I will give you credit you did offer a strat that I didn't know of. The shortcuts then sabotage until O2 runs out. That seems like a good way to win this situation. If I am already figured out there is no way to weasel my way out time to turn on the Doom music and rip and tear.

[Kunovega]

Originally posted by Russ Rockjaw:

@kunovega instead of being a snarky ass you could offer some strategies.

I will give you credit you did offer a strat that I didn't know of. The shortcuts then sabotage until O2 runs out. That seems like a good way to win this situation. If I am already figured out there is no way to weasel my way out time to turn on the Doom music and rip and tear.

I posted more in the other thread that you admitted to only partially reading.

The game isn't really that complicated, and figuring out strategy should be part of the fun. You want me to just sit and teach you how to play?

Every suggestion would be situationally dependent, you have to be able to adapt to the people you are playing with. Instead you've chosen to just suggest removing the only tools they have to even attempt winning.

It's not being snarky to point out that you're wrong and it's not my job to teach you how to play either. Every noob personoid starts out complaining like you did because they think they should be able to stand around and win without doing anything. You need to realize how fast paced the game is and that if you don't take control of the situation, someone else will and if that person is human you are going to lose.

All those humans you are complaining about getting the logs and scanners? Be that person no matter which side you are on and you will win. Can't be that person? You're not good at social deduction games and that leaves you with only sabotage and run to fall back on.

Always appear to be either helpful or go hide and be destructive, even humans who stand around doing nothing deserve to die simply for being useless and in the way.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/953880/discussions/0/3057364785115258340/

[Salamimann]

Listen to kunovega!
Look up the thread and listen to his advice!
You should keep playing and you will often enough land in the situation that the personoids dominate you and you will be glad you got some scanner and logs...
And scanner and log is no guarantee for the humans to win, lol.
But all that has been said by kuno

[Chrizzlyx]

The real value of the first log is knowing that among the two names NOT MENTIONED on the log there CAN AT MAX ONLY BE ONE Personoid. This knowledge can be abused by the Personoids by the way, you just have to be smart about it.

If somebody scans you (and you truly are one of the personoids) you just have to convince the others that the person who just scanned you is lying. Even if your name pops up two or three times on logs. It is VERY unlikely/impossible that you are the only one who is constantly showing on the logs.

If your Personoid buddy is still alive he can help you of course. If he also just stands there doing nothing then you deserve to lose. The Personoids have to play as a team aswell, this is what the secret Personoid Voice Chat is for after all.

[Kunovega]

Originally posted by Chrizzlyx:

The real value of the first log is knowing that among the two names NOT MENTIONED on the log there CAN AT MAX ONLY BE ONE Personoid. This knowledge can be abused by the Personoids by the way, you just have to be smart about it.

If somebody scans you (and you truly are one of the personoids) you just have to convince the others that the person who just scanned you is lying. Even if your name pops up two or three times on logs. It is VERY unlikely/impossible that you are the only one who is constantly showing on the logs.

If your Personoid buddy is still alive he can help you of course. If he also just stands there doing nothing then you deserve to lose. The Personoids have to play as a team aswell, this is what the secret Personoid Voice Chat is for after all.

This is the crux of social dynamics and something a lot of people overlook.

The funniest scenario (and it's of course completely random) is when one person who is a human keeps showing up on every log but the personoids actually switch between them. So with each personoid only showing up on some logs but one human showing up on all of them it becomes very easy to trick the humans into killing that one incorrectly.

I think the worst part of the logs isn't the games fault, but human nature among those who do not understand randomness, they see what they think is a pattern where none actually exists. Many games devolve into arguments over how the logs work due to incorrect assumptions or pure failure to actually read them accurately.

Of course even arguments can work in a persoinoids favor, if everyone just wants to stand there and yell for a few minutes you've depleted a chunk of oxygen and might just be able to win with a couple of sabotages.