Has there ever been a downside to giving support to succubi?

[Erenussocrates]

I get it, giving support to succubi was what Yarra wanted from the start and it was for the good for the most part, but I don't remember if it ever came with some checks and balances, like don't remember if it caused any bad events to happen if you gave too much leeway. It's been a while since I've played, but I think there should be some displays of bad consequences if there aren't any right now, otherwise it looks too unrealistically optimistic and too much of a "right choice to make". Like there should be some bad apples among succubi that abuses the trust or disrupt the order of society if succubi are supported in Yhilin. As bad as pragmatism is, I think it should also make the point apparent that the religious sects that persecuted the sex creatures existed as long as they did for a reason.

[Grim8P]

I cannot think of "bad" consequences for supporting the succubi so much as there are "good" consequences for getting the worse results. For example, Sister Beatrice in the Ardford Cathedral can only be recruited as HQ staff if the succubi were rejected and the church diverged. Altina's Request has some better results if the church diverged or a new religion was founded.

I know there are other examples I can't think of off the top of my head. Just FYI that these examples exist at least.

[Erenussocrates]

I've missed so many stuff on my first playthrough that I think I only remember that one cat lady from the furry kingdom as the HQ staff that I could have find. And couldn't even save Altina because I started the main quest first thinking that it was one of the side quests. Still salty about it, lol

[LOLtohru]

There's the succubus behind the Gilded Lily and the group of succubus descendants in Altina's quest. In both cases the most "open" or "pro-succubus" option is not necessarily the best one in terms of either story results or mechanics. If you mean non-gameplay stuff there's Sarai's conversation about the inevitable consequences of a bunch of succubus children growing up.

But from a gameplay perspective the option to help the succubi is almost always the more difficult path. It would suck if the game went "Syke! You're being punished for going to more effort!"

[Erenussocrates]

I'm also mostly concerned with the moral/story outcomes more than the gameplay consequences or stats of giving too much support to succubi. I mean looking at real life, when you grant asylum to a new bunch of people it rarely just ends with "then everyone lived happily ever after" right?

[thejoneses252]

There are downside like the others reply has mention, also for me I don't mind it if is unrealistic.

[niddhoger]

Originally posted by LOLtohru:

But from a gameplay perspective the option to help the succubi is almost always the more difficult path. It would suck if the game went "Syke! You're being punished for going to more effort!"

This is how I see it. Leading up to the vote, some of the characters (Carina/Saria?) muse it might be better to intentionally tank the acceptance vote. If the party lacks the influence to win acceptance, then it's better to cleanly draw the lines of separation. I believe it's mentioned that it may even be best for the Succubi to form their own religion so they don't have to compromise as heavily in the process.

Then there is the fact that... the game isn't finished. Of note is Sarai's personal quest that may reflect on the church's stance on succubi. The roadmap mentions the "final battle" will "count every last variable, one last time" or some such. Then there is the epilogue: a final open world segment to see how all the chips landed from a lore-perspective.

To go into spoilers... High Priestess Hester's plan to change the world involves influencing reality to influence the Tower. She is using the Church of Ivala as the base of this, and as such, her strength in the Final Battle could be partially determined by the stance taken during Gawnfall. Hester is the one to call for the Synod at Gawnfall and was apparently LIVID at Estevan broadcasting sacrilegious comments about both Goddesses and Ivala specifically: she's very sensitive to how people view Ivala as that is, again, the root of her power. The fake Ivala speaking from the Crystal Hester setup (with the crystal created to shore up faith after the Forklord's blasphemy) changes her dialogue based on the choice here at Gawnfall. IIRC, the Fake Ivala (basically Hester speaking through her) is worried about the new religion (heretics) or is urging those who left with the schism to return to the "true" path.

So I wouldn't be surprised if the "morally right/best" option for succubi during Gawnfall could make part of the endgame a bit more difficult. This brings in more worshipers following the beliefs more closely aligned with what Hester has been cultivating.

But my TL:DR is that hte game isn't finished, and as such, with each new bit of content the theorycrafting for 'best run' needs to be re-calibrated. I mean, how many people would have bet on Altina's quest giving better results for failing to get "Succubi Acceptance?" It wasn't much, but it WAS something. If combined with future outcomes that favor a different stance at Gawnfall... it could tip the scales?

Is the Acceptance vote the most difficult because it's the "morally right" path with only side-grades and concessions to other choices? Is the final choice going to ultimately be one of personal opinion with no clear best winner? Or is there going to be another curveball or three later down the road that definitively changes the 'best' option?

We'll just have to wait and see.

[Capid]

All in all there is no right or wrong option, as long as you understand that there is no perfect decision that only has upsides.

Integrating the succubi into the Ivalan church will make a very important segment in the latest big conflict much harder than if you reform the church or allow them to get a new religion.

At the end of the day you gotta think like Simon, and for Simon, the succubi are his most loyal subjects. Think about it, all the succubi you recruit are extremely fast to max loyalty unless you go out of your way to antagonize them, and you will have a hard time finding evil Arclentian succubi once Simon takes down the Incubus king, while non Arclentian succubi will be much slower to accept his reforms (Erosian succubi in particular aren't particularly interested in Simon's stance about coexistance)

If you ask me, supporting your succubi on absolutely everything doesn't have any downsides, and even if everything else goes down and other factions under you can rethink their loyalty to you, succubi will never second guess *happily* serving you.