SMG just feels out of place

[KDR_11k]

Now I know the thing is currently OP and will get some serious nerfs but that's not what I'm thinking about.

Thematically the game is very 19th century, black powder and fairly awkward shooting. The SMG goes against that. Before the combat update you have a revolver, a break-action shotgun and the gatling. All fairly old, relatively awkward designs with only the gatling managing rapid fire but with great difficulty. The SMG however feels like a modern rifle. Quick and responsive. Not much surprise there since historically the SMG is a distinctly 20th century weapon. I think thematically it'd be more appropriate to have something like a lever action repeater rifle (or give it a steam powered repeating mechanism instead of a lever). If you look at 19th century repeating weapons there's a lot of wacky and awkward designs in there as people were still figuring out how to do that stuff right with the tools available to them. So something like a classic Winchester would be an option, the difference to the revolver could be the use of a tube magazine which means fairly lengthy reloads.

I know a repeater would risk stepping on the toes of the revolver but then again the SMG is muscling in on the gatling's turf.

[Wolfrages]

I'd love a good lever action rifle. Lol

[-₪EPIC₪- Fail]

Agree with both comments. Lever action riffle would be boss. More ammo(6?) same damage? Winchester [en.wikipedia.org]

SMG, ya it seems out of place with the other weapons even though it was first put in service around 1914 for WW1 so kinda in the same time line.

[Rich]

I agree that the SMG bends the steampunk setting quite a bit (amongst other things such as the lasers) but it was probably the most requested weapon by most of the community. So considering that we decided to add it even if it's not historically accurate. However, a lever-action rifle is also planned.

[KDR_11k]

I think in addition to the historical accuracy there's simply the concern of it being too good compared to the other guns. Everything else you have shoots slowly or awkwardly but an SMG is highly responsive and quick. It doesn't really have drawbacks compared to the rest of your arsenal. You could build some awkward steampunky alternative weapon that doesn't simply receive a detachable magazine and then spews bullets at will, e.g. have a fixed drum mag that must be fed with several clips to fill it up so the thing has a really slow reload. Or like having the drum be a big wheel composed of removable sections and reloading it by removing and replacing each section individually... Just something more awkward than a full auto rifle with detachable 50 round magazine.

History had some wacky guns in that time period that could be inspirations. For example there's the Guycot chain pistol which has an internal bullet chain that holds like 40 shots.

[Thomas Jefferson]

I'm not yet on the preview branch because my game is on my computer that is currently offline, but here are some thoughts from what I've seen with the SMG if it's left in the game:

It should have a much lower rate of fire, as well as an open-bolt design that has a bit of a delay when firing. Think the American M3 SMG (grease gun). It has a delay fire due to being open bolt and a fairly slow rate of fire compared to other SMGs.

[Falaris]

From having tried the weapons - keep in mind the SMG has been nerfed into the ground and now do 3 damage per shot. Not sure what it was before, but it's basically less effective at killing than, say, the pickaxe.

1: Revolver. With the iron based bullets is one of the best guns. More accurate than the sniper rifle (wait, what?!?) 45 range and 15 daamage. The regular bullets are weak, with low range. (10 range, 5 damage).
2: Shotgun. Basic shells do okay damage in a shot pattern. Upgraded, does 20 damage, but with low accuracy and range - revolver is better in general.
3: SMG. 3 damage per bullet, 4 upgraded, 10 range both. Rate of fire is high.
4: Grenades. Like all base explosives, 50 damage. Better rate of fire but lower range than the mortar, and worse inventory economy. (Stack of 5 vs 20).
5: Mortar: This is great. The best inventory economy for an explosive weapon, with good range. The upgraded grenades are the most destructive thing in the game other than the volcano, with 200 damage a pop, but are also highly expensive.
6: Gatling gun. A little too inaccurate for comfort, but with a magazine size of 500 rounds, who cares? Actually, I do. It slows down your movement, which can be dangerous. When its inaccuracy means you don't kill enemies fast, it means you take a lot more damage using it than other weapons. Still great at tearing up enemy drillships, with the cheapest bullets in the game, by far. And if a COG wanders into your sights, too bad for them.
7: Sniper rifle. 50 damage at 50 range. Spread of 2%, like every weapon except the revolver, with 1%. It feels accurate enough though. The scope moves a little too fast; it should be slower than regular aiming. (Is there a setting for it?). Nice and satisfying though.
8: Explosives: Cumbersome, and do the same damage as grenades and mortars. Probably the worst weapon, except that you can do funky things with the detonator.

Conspicuously absent weapons:
Pistol. Basically a revolver with a bigger magazine.
Iron pistol ammo for turrets. Slug ammo for shotgun turrets.
A better melee weapon. A steam hammer or chainsword or something steampunky.
A basic semi-auto or bolt action carbine.

Lethality increases greatly as the game progresses, with both more numerous COG's, better armed, and tougher. That is an exponential increase in threat, and the linear increase offered by armor is barely relevant. I've written my thoughts on that elsewhere though. Optionally, don't have enemy cogs using the best weapons AND ammunition available at all times.

[KDR_11k]

Originally posted by Falaris:

From having tried the weapons - keep in mind the SMG has been nerfed into the ground and now do 3 damage per shot. Not sure what it was before

10. It was basically like playing Call of Duty, mowing everything down with a short tap. Quite long effective range if you kept your bursts short. COGs with it would rip through your armor and health in like one second.

Explosives are more for safety than power, throwing grenades around indoors risks hurting yourself while explosives can be safely placed exactly where you want them and still leave enough time to get out of the blast radius.

I don't think a semi-auto pistol would fit terribly well, most of this game feels like it's pre-automatic. Like Wild West era tech. Cartridges so no powder and ramrod loading but no reliable rapid fire either.

And yeah, the pick is a pretty good weapon. Honestly I think it looks good as well, a pick just seems like the perfect thing to use against metal robots since it would pierce their shells.

[Falaris]

I suspect the SMG turrets still do the old damage; you certainly don't survive long against them if they get a good burst at you. Half a second sounds about right. (Breaking a wall down and not noticing the turret on the other side does the trick just fine.).

Y'know, the gatling gun was a thing even in the wild west. That one's just fine. Perhaps they should 'reskin' the SMG into a Wardin steam gun or something, but the basic idea isn't that problematic in the game, I think.