Love Thyself - A Horatio Story

Love Thyself - A Horatio Story

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A question about Darien F19’s arc
Hi everyone, I want some clarification on Darien arc romance.
Is his story intentionally written as bromantic only, or have I actually missed something, some particular choice maybe (tried different choices but no change to his arc)? I mean not even a kiss or proper flirting like in other roots, seriously? Why? And in the end they split apart with a good chance not meeting again ever, just great.
I'm not complaining, just want to make completely sure that I won't be able to properly romance my favorite character in the game.
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Showing 1-15 of 23 comments
Frogsquadron Jun 17, 2019 @ 3:50am 
There are several reasons why Darien F19's arc does not feature romance. At first, the story was meant (by which I mean I thought "we'd have time to do") to have a lot more options. I wanted the options for friendship, for asexual romance, for full-on romance, and that, for each character, along with a good AND a bad ending for each storyline.

In the end, however, this meant that each storyline would end up having several sub-branches and a wild array of endings, without this changing most of the story players would typically see. This made the game very top-heavy: part 1 was about 15000 words, part 2 is an extra 28000 words, but with all these options, would have been somewhere in the vicinity of 45-50000 words. This meant making a bit logistics mess with tracking of variables and such to make sure the story was always tone-appropriate, as well as a lot more writing, and of course, a lot more scripting, and testing... all of this without adding any substantial length to a typical playthrough.

It was heartbreaking to make the move from "giving ALL THE OPTIONS" to "giving just THESE options", but in the end it gave us more time to polish the existing game.

If we go back even further, the very first prototype of the game even featured a completely different premise, in which you got to pick your own character, and their gender! The game was at that point wildly different, although the setting was already more or less settled.

To go back to Darien F19, the romance didn't make the cut because while Slowhands, our narrative director, wrote the rebel storylines for part 2, he wanted to make sure that our romance scenes were consistent, and this meant that, having written the loyalist romances, I'd also handle the rebel ones.

It was very easy to fit it in for Tergus F07, but when I sat down to work on Darien F19's, I just couldn't find a way to make it work with a character that was mostly defined by being super cool, but very rarely in any position to open up and show vulnerability to the player, or even a very flirtatious setting. I read through the story a few times, considered my options, and realized I couldn't make it work without having to significantly alter the tone of a bunch of scenes. In the end, I'd rather have stories that make sense than absolutely shoehorn romance where it doesn't feel right.

I realize this answer must be disappointing, especially given how cool Darien F19 is shown in part 1 (and how he's definitely the one guy who's a teeny bit friendly to you), but I'm afraid that's the one I got.

Hope this helps.
Xenarax Jun 17, 2019 @ 3:55am 
To be honest, I'm quite glad that at least one way without a romance and it suits his character.
the rebellious path is the path that I played first, and the balance of story and romantic hints was quite good for me.
later, when I was going the other path, the romance options there seemed to me too persistent. I practically refused Aeternus in every dialogue (I didn't know him well for this :), but he continued to flirt, and it was possible to make out with him even if I refused all other suggestions... it's almost the same with Exrus (while I was more interested to be just friends with him, and yes, looking at his scars with curiosity for some reason was considered a romantic line, can I just be curious? :).

(oh, I started writing my comment when there was no developer response yet and now it seems to be late because those things were already explained, oh well...)
Last edited by Xenarax; Jun 17, 2019 @ 4:15am
Frogsquadron Jun 17, 2019 @ 5:12am 
Originally posted by Xenarax:
later, when I was going the other path, the romance options there seemed to me too persistent.

In many romance-heavy visual novels, you don't get the option of not being interested. It's always just "which character are you going to pursue?" We wanted there to be an option not to be interested in the romantic aspect of the story. At the same time, having played a bunch of games where dialogue options don't necessarily match player expectations, we wanted to make sure that players wouldn't mistakenly jump into the romance, or opt out of it, without a chance to get back in/out.

It does make for the game asking you about your intentions A LOT. Still, I felt this was preferable to making a choice and not getting a chance to change your mind later!

Originally posted by Xenarax:
I practically refused Aeternus in every dialogue (I didn't know him well for this :), but he continued to flirt, and it was possible to make out with him even if I refused all other suggestions... it's almost the same with Exrus (while I was more interested to be just friends with him, and yes, looking at his scars with curiosity for some reason was considered a romantic line, can I just be curious? :).

Aeternus P02 is, as Exrus B12 tells you if you decide to go help him prepare to repel the invasion, not someone you easily say no to. This explains why he is trying, insinuating over and over, and generally, until you flatly express your disinterest (or interest in someone else), kind of all over you.
Xenarax Jun 17, 2019 @ 6:16am 
Originally posted by Frogsquadron:
In many romance-heavy visual novels, you don't get the option of not being interested. It's always just "which character are you going to pursue?"

It was practically the second "romance-heavy visual novel" which I tried to play and the first one which I completed XD (not sure if I were to try if it was not part of the Endless universe)
In general, I knew that dating-sims usually did not give much options except for romance ones (therefore I don't play this genre),
but this game looked more versatile so I have given it a go...
Practically, it met these expectations, because you still have options.


Originally posted by Frogsquadron:
Aeternus P02 is not someone you easily say no to.
Yes, I understood this part about him, I just didn’t quite understand why the hero was a subject of sudden interest for him when hero was practically flawed noone and one of the crowd who could not repeat the dance movements...
No special reason to even remember the name (unlike Exrus whom hero had a chance to impress).
considering his position and hero position, he just plays like a cat with a mouse and could quickly lose interest if I give him boring reactions (not objecting and not agreeing very eagerly)...

With Tegrus and Darien hero had a history of closer communication so everything felt right in their path.
Last edited by Xenarax; Jun 17, 2019 @ 6:18am
Frogsquadron Jun 17, 2019 @ 7:43am 
Something I tried to distill throughout the story, but probably should have made clearer, is that although Darien and Tergus know what's up with the protagonist, *Aeternus does too*.

He is interested in the protagonist inasmuch as they are one of the only truly original people around the station. That's something else that could have been in a much longer secret scene with Aeternus (which kind of dramatically changed location and focus), in which you'd get a long villain monologue explaining everything... but that would have been very long, and not necessarily fun to play, and again, a huge weight on development resources, so we refocused the secret ending to be a little cooler, but we lost some of the behind the scenes info in the transition.

One day, surely, we'll explain it all...
Oh well, what a shame. Now, I'll go and draw some fanarts to console my broken heart, I guess.
Xenarax Jun 19, 2019 @ 1:22pm 
Originally posted by Frogsquadron:
well, if his interest is sincere, it leaves a potential loophole to use it for the protagonist's own purposes.
without all this extreme staff like homicide.

Originally posted by El_Desenladrillador:
will you show it when you draw it? :)
Last edited by Xenarax; Jun 19, 2019 @ 1:46pm
Originally posted by Xenarax:
will you show it when you draw it? :)
Here you go (outside link to my art twitter): https://twitter.com/el_each/status/1146478348807430144
Last edited by El_Desenladrillador; Jul 3, 2019 @ 10:58am
Xenarax Jul 3, 2019 @ 11:10am 
Originally posted by El_Desenladrillador:
Originally posted by Xenarax:
will you show it when you draw it? :)
Here you go (outside link to my art twitter): https://twitter.com/el_each/status/1146478348807430144
that is great! perfect! :)
Last edited by Xenarax; Jul 3, 2019 @ 12:16pm
Originally posted by Xenarax:
Originally posted by El_Desenladrillador:
Here you go (outside link to my art twitter): https://twitter.com/el_each/status/1146478348807430144
that is great! perfect! :)
I also made fanart (but it's just Aeternus portrait) but since it's not as "beauty and perfection" as I wanted I just not sure if I should upload it anywhere T_T
Thanks.) Since it's been made clear that the devs won't give me the proper happy ending with my favorite character, all I can do is crying and drawings fanarts, geez.
Also, good luck with your art too.) And you don't have to be so timid, really, because in most situations nobody cares about other people's struggles, so if you really like drawing stuff, just do it for yourself first of all.
Xenarax Jul 3, 2019 @ 12:18pm 
Originally posted by El_Desenladrillador:
Thanks.) Since it's been made clear that the devs won't give me the proper happy ending with my favorite character, all I can do is crying and drawings fanarts, geez.
yeah, it's cool when you can create it yourself :)

Originally posted by El_Desenladrillador:
Also, good luck with your art too.) And you don't have to be so timid, really, because in most situations nobody cares about other people's struggles, so if you really like drawing stuff, just do it for yourself first of all.
oh, well... XD thanks :)
Frogsquadron Jul 4, 2019 @ 1:08am 
Originally posted by El_Desenladrillador:
Thanks.) Since it's been made clear that the devs won't give me the proper happy ending with my favorite character, all I can do is crying and drawings fanarts, geez.

What if I told you that you could create or modify your own Darien F19 scene, and that very soon, we'll be showing you how?

(also, great fanart, we're definitely RTing it later today!)
Originally posted by Frogsquadron:
Originally posted by El_Desenladrillador:
Thanks.) Since it's been made clear that the devs won't give me the proper happy ending with my favorite character, all I can do is crying and drawings fanarts, geez.

What if I told you that you could create or modify your own Darien F19 scene, and that very soon, we'll be showing you how?

(also, great fanart, we're definitely RTing it later today!)
With my love for writing and creating stories? Heh, don't tempt me guys, don't tempt me! X)
Oh, and I'm glad you liked my fanart, because I enjoyed creating it a lot.)
Xenarax Jul 4, 2019 @ 4:24am 
Originally posted by Frogsquadron:
and that very soon, we'll be showing you how?
That is exciting.
I heard that you greet alternative stories when I watched your broadcast. but realized that I have no idea how to use Ren'Py engine which you told about.

Btw, why the Ren'Py and not Unity? (if you can share this information and it is not a commercial secret :)
Is it easier to use?
Your other games are made on Unity, so the engine is well known to you, and it have tools for VN too.
Frogsquadron Jul 4, 2019 @ 5:35am 
Because I did most of the programming and scripting of the game, and Ren'Py is easy enough that you can be tinkering and breaking things within minutes, making new stuff without necessary needing to understand much about the whole process.

That meant that somebody who does not have programming background can do a lot, and, as you'd probably see if you dug into the code, learn as they go!

So yes, the answer is: it's easier to use. :steamhappy:
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