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Dimensions 1-10 can be carried by a nurse and mystic + dps.
WD early levels can be carried by berserkers for the most essence gain until magic attack % multiplier becomes high enough to make straight damage relic upgrades overpowered.
At that point it's about FPH.
Guide's pretty bad. Why tf would anyone use more than one mystic? Also going through random portals is a dumb idea because you have to waste a slot for the huntress and miss proper dps.
and lmao healing stones past dimension 1. hahahahahaha
loved the part where u said "Healers and mystics can get meaty clubs at first, especially mystics at first since they will mostly be using heal stones all the time anyway so their attacks are irrelevant" who tf in the right mind would do that? LOL
Do you know what you're doing m8?
Mystics were probably recommended for their early high mana regen to fuel heal stone healing.
The part about not using attacks was most likely because with that setup they'll be spamming heal stone a lot to heal.
The meat club portion is just to give those party members a bit of a boost to regen to help heal stones try to keep up with healing and because they're heal stoning so much they aren't attacking and don't need strong attacking weapons instead.
Overall it seems their guide is to try to use a strategy for early dimensions that involves running longer instead of running more often.
Definitely not an efficient approach for progression.
They should work for early game to have longer individual runs and that would be attractive to someone unfamiliar with the general idea behind the soda dungeon games of running fast instead of long.
Honestly, all you really need before WD is 2 nurses and carpenters and a mystic. Maybe run multiple mystics just to get to lvl 25 on them faster then run just the 1 for recharge and 2 medics to heal one another until they hit 25 for group heal then just the 1.
Nurse + Mystic + 4xCarpenters with the nurse and mystic at 25+ can tear through the progression dimensions without taking too long each run.
Heal stones are nice early on but as soon as you can hire nurses they become obsolete.
It's clear you didn't read it, including the first sentences where I specify that I'm no expert and just sharing what worked for me and open to other advice.
So what's with the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ way you're addressing me? How can you even hope to post a helpful reply when you didn't read what your replying to by your own admission? (and also demonstrate it in your reply that you only gave my OP a cursory glance) Or is your reply meant to be something other than helpful?
@Handoiron
Yes, it's meant to counter attrition where your party dies because your health runs out because your mana runs out for healers (before you get recharge on mystic) Especially without a Hunter in your group, it can be a long time between heal fairies thus my way can theoretically (and in my experience actually, early game) take you further but yes at a slower rate.
Replace "high" with "any" and exactly. Early game the only unit that can get mana back is mystic. The others run out of mana and are stuck waiting for the next heal fairy. That is the main reason I recommend jumping through all portals early game, with hopes to get mana back. Well the consequences of jumping through portals latter are pretty small so no reason to not jump through them all that I can see even after getting recharge. That way you can get some more loot. Angry fairies don't do much. But I suppose your concerned with the time it takes for mine shafts, the graphics etc. But it also gives warps, so quicker too depending on chance.
Do you not like Hunters for long term damage? Don't they keep on increasing in damage done as they kill things?
At least one thief in the party seems a must. Please explain if you disagree.
It can be much more efficient to run with killing as your main focus instead of minor healing with heal stones then losing when your killing stops because of no mana for damage / heals.
That way you get to spend your gold / essence increasing relic levels and start another run.
Yes, it's a good idea to have alternate paths turned on early game just for the extra heal / mana from fairies and mineshafts (mineshafts = no danger regen opportunities especially with level 25+ mystic recharge).
Later on, random paths become less useful simply because you can reach a mana relic level where you can last between the non-random fairies and the other random paths are just a slow down you don't need in your farm run.
You'd actually want to prioritize using default attack a lot in early dimensions just to avoid the mana issues. At most you'd want to utilize mystic's innate mana regen to let them use their area damage attack (or item area attacks) on levels with more than 2 enemies and use default attacks otherwise. In that setup, using mystics to spam heal stones is very counter productive considering how efficient nurse's first aid is.
Huntress's bonus damage is really quite pathetic. Right now, it caps out at +500 which can seem great for low levels but to get there you need to kill 25k enemies of every single type to get that +500 specifically with huntress. By the time you get that many kills of every single enemy type, +500 damage is quite weak.
Even after the upcoming change to Huntress, which is changing the cap to +1000 and the build to 1 per kill (up from 0.02 per kill) it's still just a tiny bit of a boost to using huntress for other reasons. Almost just a "gotta catch em all" goal instead of a significant bonus.
Though I do admit at early levels the changed version might actually help because early on your damage is pretty low so adding 10-100 damage could help significantly. With the current 0.02 damage per kill build it's just not worth spending on the soda every dimension.
They're great for farm runs but not necessary for push runs.
Pilfer is pretty much useless. It doesn't benefit from any increase from gold find or item find and it can't steal essence. You can get better gains per time by just killing the enemy instead of using the action and mana to pilfer.
Ransack is much more useful once you get it at thief level 25. However, you will only want to use it on essence carriers for the extra essence. It has the same failings as pilfer does in that the gold and item gain from it isn't affected by gold or item find. On top of that, it uses a TON of mana so spaming it on every enemy you fight can actually hurt you because you run out of mana and then can't ransack essence carriers.
Thief is pretty much identical damage wise to every other class without a main damage skill. This means that they aren't as useful for pushing levels as the classes that do better damage.
Before you get to the point where carpenter's Nailed It skill gets boosted you can use whatever class you like even just to level them up to 25 and they'll all perform relatively similarly. However, using non-nurse with a heal stone to spam heals when you have access to nurse is counterproductive to gaining resources.
Eventually, once your carpenter's Nailed It damage is upgraded to 4x attack by the quest pushing levels is going to be a lot easier just running nurse mystic 4x carpenters. Or, you can work it out to use thief (only ransacking essence carriers) and 3x carpenters with thief nurse and mystic all default attacking to kill 1 enemy every round just so you can clear 4 enemy rounds with only 3 carpenters.
I know what your suggestion on the thief stealing was going for. I spent a good bit of time and effort working up a script to let thieves ransack every enemy once to run to gather resources to craft some quest accessories. However, it was insanely slow even with a well set script.
When i simply set my item find to 80, it had an amazingly huge impact on resource drops. I was getting dozens of times more drops from simply killing fast with 80 item find than I ever got with the slow ransack-everything-that-you-see setup I had.
I don't get how you reach that conclusion from what you say before it. Level 1 mystics with mana stones can cast heal forever and never run out of mana if that is the only mana use, Nurse can run out of mana and become unable to heal. You can and should do both even. Mystics healing regularly, and nurses first aiding for any deep damage (and thus putting nurse before mystic) and otherwise using normal attacks. (which I said in my OP but you advise me like I didn't)
Early game, it not benefiting from gold or item find bonuses is pretty irrelevant. PIfers animation is not that long and doesn't matter too much if its running in the background. Also some useful items can be collected with autoPilfering, like that blood I mentioned in my OP or crafting silver necklaces for increasing your item find.
Also, if your autobattling, doesn't thieves in the party just mean more gold? Animation speed doesn't matter for autobattlig, and it seems to cost 1 auto battle per battle done, stealing or not.
You can't Ransack essence if you don't have a thief in the party. Thieves also allow you to open all the chests, and in auto causes it to go faster since without a thief the game waits a few seconds for you to pick a chest at random but since thieves give you all the chests, there is no such delay.
If you got a magic ring on your thief along with Recharge, the amount of time your thief spends stuck without mana is small, even if you Ransack all the bosses and essence carriers.(set to Ransack the three types of bosses and essence carriers but not regular enemies, I still pilfer them but I don't try to get them all)
You mean equipped it via stuff you don't get early game.
One useful thing early mid game is to equip nurses and mystics(nurses first) with magic ring and skull blade. Then put them in the latter half of your party. Skull bash doubles your damage, and can back attack for another doubling. If it's in the latter half of your party, it will always back attack first round (aside from ambushes) making for 4x damage with chance to burn and you also have an additional healer present too if you say choose two nurses instead of one.
The problem with that idea is you get way fewer returns in the same amount of time.
Because of that you get to the point where you're actually able to run for long periods of time efficiently much later.
If you can't be bothered to check the game every 5 minutes or so when you're in early dimensions, you aren't going to progress very quickly no matter what.
Instead of using so much time letting your mystics waste mana doing the job nurse does better, have them use their mana and actions killing things.
Dead enemies don't damage your party. If your party isn't damaged, you don't have to heal. If you don't have to heal, your nurse doesn't run out of mana as fast.
This means you spend less time getting more kills meaning more essence and gold in the same amount of time.
That means you get your relics leveled up faster which means you can progress further in the dungeon in a shorter period of time. It even means you get to the point where mana lasts between fairies without relying on mystic at all in a shorter period of time.
Pilfer is useless. It takes an action to do no damage at all and only gains the base gold amount unboosted by gold find. It also never gets better than 1 in 9 chance for any item to be stolen.
It's really simple. You kill enemies and take their stuff. There are plenty more enemies the next level to kill and take their stuff.
If you spend time pilfering, you aren't killing and you aren't taking as much stuff. If you aren't killing, enemies have a better chance of causing damage to your party which adds even more time that you aren't killing and taking stuff because you have to heal more often.
No, using an action to get a 1 in 9 chance of an item is not a good use of time when it slows your killing and kills can be increased by item find eventually up to a 100% drop chance. Even the super common early accessory Lucky Clover can increase your gold and item find which increases your gains without using extra time pilfering.
Using pilfer or ransack in order to gain more gold or items is a major waste of time. The only use for either of them is to use ransack to gain more essence by scripting it to be used only on essence carriers.
There really is no point in farming for specific resource drops in early dimensions. Nothing you craft will stay with you when you go to the next dimension so any time you spend farming resources to craft them is wasted time. None of the crafted items you could make in the early dimensions is strong enough to justify the time you'd spend farming resources to make them.
Just let your nurse use mana on healing and default attack otherwise.
Just let your mystic use mana on their class multi-hit attack when there are more than 2 enemies and default attack otherwise.
Use the remaining 4 slots to be your damage dealers when you're pushing for a boss or 1 thief and 3 damage dealers when you're grinding resources.
Yes, skull blades and oessine armors can come in handy to give some "required" classes a bit of extra capability, but you should try to allow classes that have much more efficient innate skills use their mana to damage more efficiently.
On a side note, not that it matters because back attacks aren't specific to the setup you described, back attack is only a 50% increase in damage, not a 100% increase in damage. So your skull blade back attack would be 3x attack damage not 4x attack damage.
No. Damage reflection does not reduce the damage of the attack it reflects. If it did it would be very overpowered or have to be much less common.
The final dimension is dimension 11. Dimension 10 (need to kill level 1000 boss) is the last progression dimension where your goal is to beat the boss and go through the portal to a new dimension.
Besides, the upgrade that allows you to bring resources over maxes at 50%, and most all the stuff you steal are resources.
I am talking early to mid game here. If your nurses can do more damage as well, you will kill faster and progress faster, what's the problem as long as they aren't regularly running out of mana?
And two nurses using back attack skull blast will do more damage than one nurse using a regular attack and a carpenter using its 4x attack, but with two nurses you will be able to progress farther without losing units and having to reset.
Do special attacks ever crit?
Essence reaver cause your Ransack to give more? Does it count if the enemy was killed via a special ability while the weapon was equipped?
Do you get 1 class experience per class unit in party no matter their level?
If you don't finish a quest before going to another dimension, do you fail the quest?
What is the amount of heal from a nurses group heal based on?
I didn't say that all forms of farming would slow your progression. I only said your recommended form of farming by using pilfer or ransack to gain more items and gold was costing more than it was gaining which is true.
Your method of farming does in fact slow progression. It also actually slows the rate at which you gain the things you're doing it to try to gain because you get far more resources and gold from killing faster.
The blacksmith upgrade to allow carrying resources ahead doesn't matter to the comparison of the 2 methods considering it take effect either way.
You were the one saying you wanted your mystic to use heal stones to spam heal to preserve your nurse's mana. Of course if you can support the mana drain you can let your nurse add some item based damage. That doesn't mean your nurse is going to be as good a damage dealer as other classes.
Sure, and 2 carpenters out damages 2 nurses doing back attacks. Having 2 nurses in the end of your group doing inferior damage will not allow you to progress farther. Caprenters will let you go farther by guaranteeing higher damage on every attack making enemies die faster up to a higher level.
A nurse in the first few spots where it should be to maintain healing won't be getting back attacks until after the enemy acts and then they'll mist likely be healing instead.
The only reason to take multiple nurses for actual fighting is to be able to have them heal each other with first aid. That means there is no real use to placing a nurse in the second half of the party. They should both be as early as possible in the party to ensure they get the chance to heal if needed before your damage dealers start killing off the enemies.
Once your nurse hits level 25 and gets group heal you can safely run just 1 nurse set to first aid any ally that needs healing and group heal when they need to heal themselves. That way you can stack more damage and kill further faster as well as lessen the required healing by killing enemies before they attack and that way reduce time spent healing.
There are actual reasons progression groups of nurse mystic 4x carpenter are recommended so often. If you're feeling confident you can clear 4 enemy levels easily you can also run nurse mystic thief (set to only ransack essence carriers and damage otherwise) with 3x carpenters.
Some special attacks crit and some don't, it depends on the attack. Any way you figure it, crit chance can't be maxed with gear so you can't guarantee a crit will occur. That means you can't rely on crit and have to factor in the worst case scenario of getting unlucky enough to fail to crit an entire round. It might seem far fetched but eventually it does happen. While Nailed it can't crit, it does enough damage as a guarantee that it's much better than every other single target attack simply because the only way for any other attack to out damage it is to rely on effects that aren't guaranteed.
Essence reaver adds 1 single essence to any attack that kills an essence carrier made by the party member that has the essence reaver equipped. It doesn't matter what the attack was. It only ever adds 1 single essence to the essence carrier's drop though so it's fairly insignificant. It's generally viewed as better overall to use something that boosts your damage (grand scepter / staff of choosing) or allows you to survive later (skull blade / saber) than to gain such a small increase.
Class xp doesn't ever go up based on current class level or dungeon level. You can boost it with the class mastery relic and triangle gems though.
Quests remain when you go to a new dimension and don't fail when you go through the portal except for the one quest designed to fail for the achievement named Don't Be (A Big Stupid Idiot) or something close to that.I think it took me 3 or 4 dimensions to finally finish one of the collect quests simply because I was progressing through dimensions so fast and losing 1/2 the required resources I had each time.
Amount of heal for nurse's group heal is 20% of the target's max health increased by magic damage % and capped at 50% of target's max health.
You seem to have misunderstood my exp question. How does the game assign class exp? What is the pattern?
Early game when your max mana is low and you got no way to get it back except by failure or heal fairy. As I said, mid game. Recharge makes a huge difference, as does magic ring and mana relic.
How does one use Sharpen it? Is it a relatively useless skill? Aside from not knowing when is a good circumstance/unit to use it on, I got no idea how I would script it to be used right.
How do you make the Dark Lord avoid killing any essence carriers before thief can get it? The scripts seem annoyingly one sided, like no "strongest" trigger, no "non-essence carrier" triggers. The best I could see to do is set Dark Lord to block with essence appearing, but it seems to have ignored the script.
So, if your party member has 1000 max health and your nurse has 200% increased magic damage:
20% x 1000 x (1+200%) = 200 x 3 = 600 healing
But, since it's capped at 50% of target's max health, it would heal for 500 max.
No attack portion in there because it's a % based ability. I think poisons and burns work the same way as a % of max health and unaffected by attack. It's one of the reasons some people recommend using poisons and burns against some of the bosses because it's a good ♥♥♥♥♥ of damage due to their high max health and doesn't need a strong gear / relic level to do the damage.
I thought your question was only about class / dungeon level.
The basic way class XP gain works is 1 xp per dungeon level for each party member given to the class they are.
So, a group of 1 huntress, 2 blademasters and 3 darkmages would gain 1 xp for huntress, 2 xp for blademaster and 3 xp for darkmage every level.
It doesn't matter what class levels they already are or what level of the dungeon you're on.
As I said, it is also boosted by your class mastery increasing effects from the class mastery relic and any triangle gems you have equipped.
The boost from relic and triangle gems is applied to the base 1 xp per level too so it doesn't matter what party member has the triangle gem equipped, all party members benefit from the increased class XP.
Heal stones are only semi useful before you unlock nurse every dimension. Once you have access to nurse, their first aid is much better.
It's not just the heal for the mana, although first aid very quickly becomes more efficient that way, but also about the heal per action. Any action spent healing is not an action spent doing damage. So, if you can full heal a party member with 1 first aid instead of 2-3 heal stone uses, you are sacrificing less damage to healing.
Heck, I almost never even used heal stones fro the first run in any dimension. I just loaded up my group of 6 junkies with crafted iron swords, shields and accessories and set them loose. If you're 1 rounding everything, you only take damage from ambushes so damage is your best "healing". When you do end up taking that unavoidable damage, it's much more efficient to take as few actions as possible to heal.
I've never done it because I never felt it was worth using but I assume the script would be very similar to the mystic recharge script.
Ally : Status != Positive - Sharpen
Of course, it would have interaction issues with recharge because if either of those is on then it'll block the other being used under the current scripting because status wouldn't be negative.
The only way is to set a script line to prevent dark lord from attacking essence carriers.
I usually just use Enemy : Has Essence - Defend. With that method, X is really only in the party as a defensive measure. His death prevention passive and ability to kill janitors before they act because janitors never have essence still make it well worth bringing him.