HP Regen Relic Tweak

[GoodDron]

Wonder if dev reads steam discussions.
Anyway.

On higher stages it's 100hp/turn regen sucks.
Either make it limitless or make it's regen be in %. 10% of char's max HP regen per turn, for example.

[hatethis4]

Hp regen mainly for pre wd (seeing how the max relic level is only 100)so nurses won't require to spam aoe heal while burning through their mana especially for for average grinders cause most relic level is still low. Post wd healing depends heavily on first aid.

[Kissker]

I don't think your really considering the full extent of this change.

let's say it was 10% per trigger, which is roughly 1 time per 'your turn' if you have everyone alive.
10% of 600, is 60. meaning at "normal gameplay levels' EG not WD 8000+ your healing 60, when enemies are doing over 300. And that is with a relic I am highly pushing essence into (Carpenter Class Relic) keeping them at 600+ HP.

Nurse only AoE Heals for like 100. So your effectively nerfing the heck out of the Regen Relic, to the point it's weaker than a Nurse, at the 'benefit' of being 0 Cost MP.

Now let's advance a little. Enemies commonly do 400 damage. Your HP is now 1000. Your still, only healing, 100 with a nurse AOE healing for another 100, or 200 of the 400 damage dealt.

Meaning.. by the time this relic is "not as useful" Nurses are already heavily relying on single target heals - and you should just add a nurse to your party. Maybe invest in some Evasion Gear, because if you literally dodge it, it does 0 damage to you, as well as no effects like fire, sleep, poison, burn, etc.

[GoodDron]

To first commenter → if a relic is useful only before WD, it is a useless relic. Because main gameplay starts at WD and this relic is to provide a good chunk of survivability. But after 5.000 floor its effect is already meh, and after 10.000+ floor it won't be even notable.

2nd commenter → In my experience enemies don't do 300 damage when your chars' hp is 600. It's far less, about 100-150. Otherwise you put not enough essence into your HP relic.

On the other hand I'm currently on 7.000+ floor, got 2500hp on my chars and enemise do 500-600 damage - 25-30% of max hp.
My nurses not wearing magic boosting gear heal the group for 200Hp. Regen is stiil 100 - about 4% of max hp.

When I reach 10.000 floor, my chars wiil have around 3500HP, enemies will deal 800-900 damage - still 25-30% of max hp, nurses will heal the group for 250-300hp per cast. HP regen will still be 100HP - about 3%.

The more hp pool my chars have, the less efficient hp relic becomes.

Saving this prodression, when max hp wiil be 10.000, enemies will deal 2.500-3.000 damage, nurses will heal the group for 800-1000hp, but relic will still regen 100 hp - 1% of max hp.

I'm sure this needs to be fixed.

[gyzbug]

HP regen in general is a waste. Even if you regen 100% per tick you will reach levels where you get oneshot eventually. People around level 10k-30k should look forward to levels 10x higher.

[Circenn]

I agree, if it were a % and not a fixed number it'd be great. Then again that'd be dependent on what's the highest % you could reach. Anything over 40% would make the game broken and people could just grab all DM and let it go for weeks on end.

[Blackwolfe]

Early wd you can ditch nurses for a while if you got the regen relic maxed.

[KaosReigns]

Originally posted by gyzbug:

HP regen in general is a waste. Even if you regen 100% per tick you will reach levels where you get oneshot eventually. People around level 10k-30k should look forward to levels 10x higher.

This actually makes no sense when you really think about it. The way you are saying this, is at some point, you will just lose.

You only get 1 shot, if your HP is low, if your HP is higher, and you can survive, HP regen comes into play at that time. So instead of dying in 5 shots, you regen and are able to take 6 or 7, that extra shot, allowing you time to recover, and hope they attack some of the others, to spread the damage out.

The real problem is when RNG decides to say "♥♥♥♥ you" and focus all 4 attacks onto 1 guy. This is the more likely scenario to happen, and usually at this point, even high HP, will die.

[gyzbug]

When you start running at the high end and enemies gain 125 damage per couple floors you need 25 levels in relics per region just to maintain their damage growth. The essence cost alone while also growing your attack relics makes that a very slow progression option. Its easy at low levels as enemy growth is on par with the fixed +5 HP you get while progressing but it gets surpassed after a certain point.

Enemies are hitting for 9,500-12,500 in the 90,000 range with 70k-75k Health.
If at floor 7,000 they were hitting for 500-600 damage, so that 13 times the floor but 20 times the damage, at floor 350,000 it will be even worse, and worse still near floor 1,000,000.

Edit: And just to add to my point at level 100,000 now enemies are hitting for 15,000-18,000. That is about 5,500 damage in only 10k floors

[Blackwolfe]

Originally posted by KaosReigns:

Originally posted by gyzbug:

HP regen in general is a waste. Even if you regen 100% per tick you will reach levels where you get oneshot eventually. People around level 10k-30k should look forward to levels 10x higher.

This actually makes no sense when you really think about it. The way you are saying this, is at some point, you will just lose.

You only get 1 shot, if your HP is low, if your HP is higher, and you can survive, HP regen comes into play at that time. So instead of dying in 5 shots, you regen and are able to take 6 or 7, that extra shot, allowing you time to recover, and hope they attack some of the others, to spread the damage out.

The real problem is when RNG decides to say "♥♥♥♥ you" and focus all 4 attacks onto 1 guy. This is the more likely scenario to happen, and usually at this point, even high HP, will die.

Not to mention that even if you can get oneshot and you do have x in your party you get put to 1 hp. Though can't really rely on the regen relic for that. And you can easily get oneshot in ambushes at higher floors..

At that point using things like back protectors or damage resistance gear is recommended as well as scripting to that when characters dont need to take an action they defend.

[undeadpixels]

Also a tip I don't see enough is to turn on Mineshaft keys. This will make the 100 health regen fill you to max, and with even half decent scripting refill your mana.

Mineshafts = healing fairy.

[gyzbug]

Well the dev is not going to touch the Regen relic, but he is changing nurse group heal in the next update.

Nurse's "Group Heal" base healing increased to 20% of ally's Max HP or 100, whichever is greater. Cannot exceed half of ally's Max HP.
in list Version 1.0.5 (66) IN DEVELOPMENT

[gyzbug]

Originally posted by undeadpixels:

Also a tip I don't see enough is to turn on Mineshaft keys. This will make the 100 health regen fill you to max, and with even half decent scripting refill your mana.

Mineshafts = healing fairy.

The problem with regen and health as a whole is how it scales, when you have 20,000 hp you would need 200 ticks to regen a 1 hp character to full. HP grows at a flat rate, while damage taken and dealt grows at an accelerated rate.

[undeadpixels]

Originally posted by gyzbug:

Originally posted by undeadpixels:

Also a tip I don't see enough is to turn on Mineshaft keys. This will make the 100 health regen fill you to max, and with even half decent scripting refill your mana.

Mineshafts = healing fairy.

The problem with regen and health as a whole is how it scales, when you have 20,000 hp you would need 200 ticks to regen a 1 hp character to full. HP grows at a flat rate, while damage taken and dealt grows at an accelerated rate.

I'm, only around 1k HP myself. TBH it sounds like you have really enjoyed this game to get to that point. For sure it is difficult to balance a game such as this from begining to end. You ultimately need early game and late game content. I think the right choice is made in having stonger support for the first 1000 floors, over the later 10,000. I think the best way to allow this type of support is to grow the game to more than a single dev. Meaning find a way to support him and maybe he can hire a second. Just think of that triangle of quality, money, time.

(I'f you notice my postings for the last few hours, I'm slowly getting more drunk. sorry)

[mdart]

honestly hp regen is fine were it is at the top teams dont use healers and use the regen as it allows for the wd character to be able to use its 25 passive. sorry to say but if you change it to percent then you nerf it for any point below stage 10k making it useless for any team atleast were its at it lets you survive early on till you get one/2shoted and at that point then it would not matter that its a 100% regen since you just die and you will hit that point no mater what

[mdart]

Originally posted by KaosReigns:

Originally posted by gyzbug:

HP regen in general is a waste. Even if you regen 100% per tick you will reach levels where you get oneshot eventually. People around level 10k-30k should look forward to levels 10x higher.

This actually makes no sense when you really think about it. The way you are saying this, is at some point, you will just lose.

You only get 1 shot, if your HP is low, if your HP is higher, and you can survive, HP regen comes into play at that time. So instead of dying in 5 shots, you regen and are able to take 6 or 7, that extra shot, allowing you time to recover, and hope they attack some of the others, to spread the damage out.

The real problem is when RNG decides to say "♥♥♥♥ you" and focus all 4 attacks onto 1 guy. This is the more likely scenario to happen, and usually at this point, even high HP, will die.

not really let say you can have 10k hp at some point you will hit a point were the enemys will hit you for 10.1k since the game is about pushing most times you end were you start getting one hit or ambushed focus on a single character