Soda Stein is OP, needs nerfing

[Buck_Meatmissile]

The relic upgrade rate and/or conditions need to be changed.

The intent was an occasional relic upgrade due to the fact that you can only craft 1 Soda Stein, so there is a chance to upgrade a relic in 1 out of 6 hits per battle. However, it is possible to equip a single character with the Soda Stein and send them into the dungeon at lvl 1. The Soda Stein scores every available hit, and your relics get leveled up very quickly no matter how strong they already are, from lvl 1 battles that end very quickly.

The easiest remedy for this would be to only award the relic upgrade if the hit scored does NOT kill the target. This would prevent it being used by a one character party since monsters powerful enough not to die in one hit would quickly dispatch a lone character. It would also prevent it from being used in low level battles at all.

[Handoiron]

I'm pretty sure that it's incredibly easy to get more than 1 or 2 relic levels worth of gold / essence per level beyond the early stages of dimension progression.

[Frackus]

Originally posted by Buck_Meatmissile:

The relic upgrade rate and/or conditions need to be changed.

The intent was an occasional relic upgrade due to the fact that you can only craft 1 Soda Stein, so there is a chance to upgrade a relic in 1 out of 6 hits per battle. However, it is possible to equip a single character with the Soda Stein and send them into the dungeon at lvl 1. The Soda Stein scores every available hit, and your relics get leveled up very quickly no matter how strong they already are, from lvl 1 battles that end very quickly.

The easiest remedy for this would be to only award the relic upgrade if the hit scored does NOT kill the target. This would prevent it being used by a one character party since monsters powerful enough not to die in one hit would quickly dispatch a lone character. It would also prevent it from being used in low level battles at all.

There is a 15% chance for each hit....not additive so in 6 hits there are 6, 15% chances not 90%.

[Buck_Meatmissile]

True, but that means the relic upgrade occurs 15% of the time the one character that has it hits something if the Soda Stein is used as intended. 15% of the time out of 1 of 6 characters attacking isn't very often, but if a single character is battling it's a straight 15% chance of leveling a relic from even a lvl 1 monster. Kinda ridiculous if the relic is already lvl 10K. Oh, and it also levels relics when 'fighting' ores. A Mineshaft screen averages 3-4 relic upgrades each time.

[Frackus]

It is a 15% chance to get upgrade ... 85% chance to do nothing at all. If the RNG doesn't like you it is just another weapon.

[paveljanik [CZ]]

I think it is the best viable strategy now to run one person from level 1. is it so op that it would break the game? nah.

[Fel]

It makes me wonder, does it trigger properly with the "ticket" quickruns?
I know quite a few things don't trigger with it so you end up with way less than if you had run it normally but if the effect procs in that mode it could be quite a strong increase in the usefulness of those runs.

[wsziemke]

I just finished running a 6 man team (Nurse(Heal/Defend), Tavern(Default), 3 Huntress(Group Att) and a Thief. In that order the tavern owner hit first every level. Started at lvl 1 and made it to lvl 84,000. At 1500 relic upgrades for every 10,000 lvl, divided by 18 upgrade-able relics, it averages to 700 per relic. Granted this run took 62 hours to complete. Also got 462 B gold in the process.

[Frackus]

Originally posted by wsziemke:

I just finished running a 6 man team (Nurse(Heal/Defend), Tavern(Default), 3 Huntress(Group Att) and a Thief. In that order the tavern owner hit first every level. Started at lvl 1 and made it to lvl 84,000. At 1500 relic upgrades for every 10,000 lvl, divided by 18 upgrade-able relics, it averages to 700 per relic. Granted this run took 62 hours to complete. Also got 462 B gold in the process.

Your fph was about 1350? Also, did you just take a flat 15% of the 10k floors? That doesn't work with probability. What was your observed gain in relic level?

[ovni.demon]

Did it get nerfed or not?

[Laertes]

Originally posted by ovni.demon:

Did it get nerfed or not?

Soda Stein trigger chance is lowered to 13% (From 15%).

[Riverwind]

Seems like 15% is was way too high and it got nerfed thanks to random dudes complaining.

Probably salty because he spent hours grinding and leveling relics and doesnt want others to achieve the same progression easier or faster.

As if

[Cahos Rahne Veloza]

I actually do not like Soda Stein. Sure it can randomly give a level to a random relic, but that's just it. I have OCD and I like my relics to all be neatly rounded off. Currently all my Class relics are at level 10k each, even Mystic who outlives her usefulness quickly. And every relic that has a level cap is maxed out. MP relic is at 10k, Gold and Essence find relics are at 100k. And finally HP, Attack, Phys Atk and Magical Atk at 60k. I know I should up them some more and I'll eventually get there.

TL;DR:
Soda Stein doesn't go well with my OCD.

[kevinshow]

well i'm guessing that when the relics are level 100 and 200, adding one more (or a few) levels to it from going into battle is a more significant than when it is 10,000 and adding 1 more level.

so there's a time when soda stein is more useful, and a time when it's less useful. but either way, we're not forced to use it, so if someone wants a challenge and wants to get 5000 levels in a relic from just soda stein, then that's OK for him to go forth and do that. and if someone else wants to use a stronger dps weapon and then just buy the levels with gold/essence, then that's ok too!

[Jonny Friggin Panic]

It works with tickets.

Currently running a soda stein mining team... basically just a stein cheese build: Character X, Miner, Wiz, Nurse, Thief, Huntress, tons of Ore Find. X defends, Miner Transmutes, Wizard AE clears the other monsters, then everyone Defends while X beats on ore with stein. Ore Find increases the chance of ore being higher quality, especially in keyed Mineshafts, so this is how I'm getting Uranium and Labradorite.
It'd take ages to do 100,000 floors like this normally, and Uranium would take forever, but with tickets it only takes a few minutes to process. For better or worse, I have all relics unlocked now, but each such run still manages to get me several thousand levels per relic.

Given how far the highest guild reward is... 2 million floors... I still don't think the impact of the stein is that big, compared to how things scale. Primal Lands even more so... I still get killed there easily at floor ~600k if I don't load up plenty of Withering, and my relics are in the 50k level range.