What's your Efficient set up for consistent 2300 FPH? (No Warp)

[ChewMyFudge]

Anybody found an efficient combination while keeping a consistent 2300 FPH by any chance? What I mean a solid set up that focuses on as few Relics as possible to keep flooding Gold Relic as you push through floors instead of backtracking.

Currently I'm running: Nurse, Thief, BladeMaster x3, Dark Lord. It has that sweet consistent 2300 FPH but now I'm wondering if there's a better one to upgrade as less Relics as possible when needed.

Full Evasion set up with only Nurse and Thief DR. To make sure there is less healing as possible without anybody dying at random.
Dark Lord uses claw to clear > 2 enemies and single target to take out single units + bosses at every 5th and 10th floor. This means there is no Defend animation delay. Apparently it's like 400 Milliseconds and it shows.

Each time someone does get hit, DL will go into Defend ONLY when a single enemy is on the board. This gives Nurse a turn to heal while Thief one shots them with Laser (Means she can wear Back protector).

I'm on floor 800k. Nurse, Thief, DarkLord relics are at 10k where I will keep them for as long as I can. BladeMasters got 1 points in Relic cause I'm just using them for their 90 evasion. Now focusing only on Gold Relic and when needed put Essence into Dmg, Magic Dmg, HP. Now and then putting more points into Phys Relic so DarkLord can keep 1 hitting mini bosses since he can't use laser.

[boredumb]

1 shot with laser instead of autoattack?
Because you want to not invest in physical?

I think the answer you're probably looking for is 5 nurse 1 thief . thief always on defend period (no or minimal investment into class relic, because always defending and in DR gear and a lot of base health relic should be fine), and nurses doing all the work if you want to min/max. Defend all then auto at the beginning of each run.
Nurses with claws and DR gear, except the last nurse using ossein armor instead of platinum armor + doodle charm, in case your entire party gets put to sleep this will keep you alive better (and jive with your script). It can also give you a heads up when you need more health if your last nurse dies before anyone else (or thief for that matter).

You'll still probably have to invest in physical to 1 hit auto attack unless you want to rely only on nurse class relic maybe.

Personally I think you should just keep doing what you're doing til you get to the point your gold relic is so high that you can comfortably invest into physical or split class relics or whatever you want to do.

Edit:
I think that because you need a nurse until maybe extreme late game (and maybe even then if animation is faster than the occasional fairy) it's the obvious answer to middle game for min/max purposes. The stage you're at right now seems you're doing it great and could probably maintain that forever if you wanted also, just depends what you want. I think it's important also that I don't think I can get 2300 consistently without warp with just nurses but it's pretty close. It's 2350-2450 with warp depending if the game is in focus or not apparently or just slowdown over many hours but generally shows about 200 less (which might not actually be the full 200 less) without warp.

Edit2:
Ok so after 1/2 hour it's about 2310-2320 without warp, but I expect this drops over long duration (if that matters). It's also more gold per hour than warping (about 16T/hr vs 14T/hr - level 2.8m+ 175kish gold relic), I just still like the idea of climbing faster to speed up the base gold amount even if it's technically not as good so I tend to use warp.

[Handoiron]

@boredumb you could drop thief entirely and never have to consider investing anything into it. With the fast chest open from wizard shop, the FPH has been identical with and without a thief for me. That means the only difference is opening 3 chests vs. 1 every boss. I'm not sure those few extra hits of gold are worth any investment in a second class relic at all.

Even then I'm not sure how effective full nurse is with the loss of ~17.5% multiplicitive damage reduction and 10% base health of not running back protector is with the stage you're looking for multiple hits per heal.

@ChewMyFudge you also have some pain issues with taking multiple hits per heal. DL and BM both have low damage reduction capabilities. DL because he can't equip the gear or defend as your damage dealer and BM because they're in full evade and can't even stack defend.

90% evade on BM is nice but they're still taking almost 2x as much damage when they do get hit as any other "filler" class because all other fillers can wear at least some damage reduction even if they do go full evade and can defend for 1/2 damage taken even after that.

I can't say for 100% certain what would be faster overall because the last time I tried BMs I was still in the range where they'd get 1 hit killed when they finally failed an evade but it's worth thinking about.


I've actually been considering trying full 5 DM and nurse with nurse in 2nd spot and a script on DM to defend if heal scripting would activate. That would strip nurse of defending though so require a higher investment in them to meet the multiple hit per heal level of DM.

In all likelyhood, just going full on 6 nurse and pumping enough into class relic to hit no-physical% relic default (or just claw) kill levels of damage while increasing health for multihit per heal would probably be good too.

[ChewMyFudge]

Originally posted by boredumb:

Personally I think you should just keep doing what you're doing til you get to the point your gold relic is so high that you can comfortably invest into physical or split class relics or whatever you want to do.

Maybe you're right. It is a comfortable for me set up. I don't really have problems with gold because I got 30k in Gold Relic while all other relics were around 5-10k at most.

Originally posted by Handoiron:

90% evade on BM is nice but they're still taking almost 2x as much damage when they do get hit as any other "filler" class because all other fillers can wear at least some damage reduction even if they do go full evade and can defend for 1/2 damage taken even after that.

You're not wrong. The way I look at it is that at least 3 out of 4 times they will evade and Nurse won't be getting a turn. So even if one time she has to heal twice, it's not a big deal unlike healing every time.

I tested things with and without evasion and if you compare full Evasion against full DR, Nurse alone brings your speed down by 200 FPH which I found a lot. Your logic is not wrong however, which is why I keep Nurse and Thief in DR gear. X doesn't die either cause their HP pools very high. Plus not getting a nasty debuff from Janitor for 5 turns seems to keep things stable too.Although I am thinking to maybe just go full Evasion with only Back protectors now that everyone's HP pool is higher than damage.

[Frackus]

I am currently at level 2.2M+ running XNTBBB getting 2350 fph. All less X are equipped for evade. X defends only when HP less than 50% for nurse heal. T has claw for those rare times. X default attack for single, claw for others and his special attack for 10K bosses. T has lowest hp at ~710k so can take 2 hits before heal. All less T have back protectors

[boredumb]

Originally posted by daddyfirecat:

I am currently at level 2.2M+ running XNTBBB getting 2350 fph. All less X are equipped for evade. X defends only when HP less than 50% for nurse heal. T has claw for those rare times. X default attack for single, claw for others and his special attack for 10K bosses. T has lowest hp at ~710k so can take 2 hits before heal. All less T have back protectors

I've seen on reddit this is the preferred method, or at least a variation of it. The only problem with this is it requires a lot of extra health, which takes away from gold relic. That's actually not so bad, because gold relic can be so costly, but these health numbers are to the point that health relic starts to get hard to justify as well (at least at this stage).

Fundamentally there's also an issue that I ran into from time to time, and that's strange status effects happening on ambush. With X the janitor sleep issue is not a problem, but if your thief gets hit with slowdown and your X is defending, it can be an issue (or X getting slowed if your T did not have claw) with 3 BM and 4 enemies for example. Probably not a big enough deal with that kind of health and evasion though so looks good.

Originally posted by Handoiron:

@boredumb you could drop thief entirely and never have to consider investing anything into it. With the fast chest open from wizard shop, the FPH has been identical with and without a thief for me. That means the only difference is opening 3 chests vs. 1 every boss. I'm not sure those few extra hits of gold are worth any investment in a second class relic at all.

Even then I'm not sure how effective full nurse is with the loss of ~17.5% multiplicitive damage reduction and 10% base health of not running back protector is with the stage you're looking for multiple hits per heal.

I think the thief is always going to be worth its cost and then some provided the gold relic is extremely high (including the minimal investment in class relic). I did switch out my last nurse for a DM though after thinking about it thanks to your input, to be able to use noxin in the rare event of sleep (which always happens in a 8h+ session at these speeds anyway). That lets me use platinum armor and doodle charm and back protector, which I think will save a little on healing. Just as long as it doesn't hinder 1 hit autoattack stats much it should pay off. Yes yes, I could just use it to noxin only or use skull blade in the rare events it does need to attack I suppose. Also it only took about 1 hour of income to pump the class relic up several thousand to 20k which should be fine for awhile.

[Frackus]

Originally posted by daddyfirecat:
I am currently at level 2.2M+ running XNTBBB getting 2350 fph. All less X are equipped for evade. X defends only when HP less than 50% for nurse heal. T has claw for those rare times. X default attack for single, claw for others and his special attack for 10K bosses. T has lowest hp at ~710k so can take 2 hits before heal. All less T have back protectors

I've seen on reddit this is the preferred method, or at least a variation of it. The only problem with this is it requires a lot of extra health, which takes away from gold relic. That's actually not so bad, because gold relic can be so costly, but these health numbers are to the point that health relic starts to get hard to justify as well (at least at this stage).

Fundamentally there's also an issue that I ran into from time to time, and that's strange status effects happening on ambush. With X the janitor sleep issue is not a problem, but if your thief gets hit with slowdown and your X is defending, it can be an issue (or X getting slowed if your T did not have claw) with 3 BM and 4 enemies for example. Probably not a big enough deal with that kind of health and evasion though so looks good.




I've not seen the strange status effect on ambush...yet. Gold relic currently 131k and ran health relic up to 100k. Individual relics are about 20k. The BM's are set to default attack if needed. T evade is at 82% and N is at 76% BM at 90%. Using the evade pet.

edit...went back and checked...X relic is 25.8k and the others are at 22k.

[boredumb]

Originally posted by daddyfirecat:

Originally posted by daddyfirecat:
I am currently at level 2.2M+ running XNTBBB getting 2350 fph. All less X are equipped for evade. X defends only when HP less than 50% for nurse heal. T has claw for those rare times. X default attack for single, claw for others and his special attack for 10K bosses. T has lowest hp at ~710k so can take 2 hits before heal. All less T have back protectors

I've seen on reddit this is the preferred method, or at least a variation of it. The only problem with this is it requires a lot of extra health, which takes away from gold relic. That's actually not so bad, because gold relic can be so costly, but these health numbers are to the point that health relic starts to get hard to justify as well (at least at this stage).

Fundamentally there's also an issue that I ran into from time to time, and that's strange status effects happening on ambush. With X the janitor sleep issue is not a problem, but if your thief gets hit with slowdown and your X is defending, it can be an issue (or X getting slowed if your T did not have claw) with 3 BM and 4 enemies for example. Probably not a big enough deal with that kind of health and evasion though so looks good.




I've not seen the strange status effect on ambush...yet. Gold relic currently 131k and ran health relic up to 100k. Individual relics are about 20k. The BM's are set to default attack if needed. T evade is at 82% and N is at 76% BM at 90%. Using the evade pet.

edit...went back and checked...X relic is 25.8k and the others are at 22k.

Ah, ok thanks for the info. I guess it's a matter of speed vs gold relic/health ratio. Both seem good choices just matter of preference.
Here's my info for comparison if you'd like:

4 nurse 1 dm 1 thief (thief always defending, but no other can be always on defense)
DR setup, DR pet - nurses with claws, dm with doodle and back protector, thief with back protector and always on defend

level 3,061,000
90k health 200k gold 35k attack 35k mattack 25kpattack
50k nurse relic 20k DM relic 10k thief relic
getting 20T gold per hour at 2325 floors per hour with no warp (until eventual slowdown over long hours)

[boredumb]

Chef with slow stone seems to be a superior BM and/or DM and should probably be in any efficient party now (likely in the last slot).

So I guess these two builds are worth considering:

N T BM BM X Ch (Evasion)

or N DM DM X T Ch (DR)

Of course you can mess around and do what you like, it really makes little difference later on, I've reached level 4.3m and over 52T per hour and leveled all class relics up to 50k so I can just play what I want, and will probably maintain it while still increasing gold relic.

Edit:
Forgot, I don't see a realistic reason to increase Chef's relic either.

[Vashimu]

hmm i am still stuck with 2150-2200FPH.. warp off

tried some stuff but nothing worked realy good and also safe

but thats fine.. gold income goes up and up and up and its realy boring atm
hope realy new stuff comes soon like a dungeon 2 etc

[Handoiron]

Originally posted by Vashimu:

hmm i am still stuck with 2150-2200FPH.. warp off

tried some stuff but nothing worked realy good and also safe

Use DL (with appropriate class relic level) as your damage with a claw. Script him to kill everything and defend only when your preferred heal triggers are met.

Scripting him to defend when your preferred heal triggers are met will give your nurse the chance to heal when you need it. Remember to have your 2nd party member (after nurse as 1st) ready to clear whatever enemies are on the floor you heal on.

This method also allows you to customize your heal for DL vs. others which can be important since DL is the weakest party member defensively. This is because with DL script determining when heals are to happen, you can script him to self hp < XX% as well as Ally HP < YY% to differentiate based on the different defensive stats if you choose.

That should add a good 100-150 FPH not having DL and/or nurse defending every level.

[Frackus]

Originally posted by Handoiron:

Originally posted by Vashimu:

hmm i am still stuck with 2150-2200FPH.. warp off

tried some stuff but nothing worked realy good and also safe

Use DL (with appropriate class relic level) as your damage with a claw. Script him to kill everything and defend only when your preferred heal triggers are met.

Scripting him to defend when your preferred heal triggers are met will give your nurse the chance to heal when you need it. Remember to have your 2nd party member (after nurse as 1st) ready to clear whatever enemies are on the floor you heal on.

This method also allows you to customize your heal for DL vs. others which can be important since DL is the weakest party member defensively. This is because with DL script determining when heals are to happen, you can script him to self hp < XX% as well as Ally HP < YY% to differentiate based on the different defensive stats if you choose.

That should add a good 100-150 FPH not having DL and/or nurse defending every level.

agree

did a 3 day run while I was away with DL defending when self and ally <60% and nurse heals set at self < 75% group heal, Ally <60% first aid and ally <65% group heal; in that order. all were still alive. Toons are able to take 2 hits before needing heal.
Team consists of N T BM XX BM BM using default attack for single target and claw for others. T set to claw any. Currently in the 2.9m level and getting 2360 fph

[Handoiron]

Drop the first aid line and just group heal. At your levels, group heal should be a full 50% heal.

Using self / ally <60% - group heal means every time your script triggers to cast it your entire group gets full healed.

That way, with your 2 hits before needing heal, you could go as many as 7 hits before healing your entire party to full health.

With your ally <60% first aid line, you could potentially end up having to first aid every hit for up to 6 hits in a row because, while first aid is a guaranteed full heal for that party member, the others could be left with 1 hit till needing a heal then get hit and trigger first aid instead of group heal.

Basically, first aid will full heal the triggered party member where group heal should full heal your entire party. At worst, group heal will heal all other party members to full and leave the triggering member just shy of full if the hit they took to trigger the heal brought them below 50%.

Not as large a FPH change as cutting out 1-2 defends a round but still a micro optimization that should gain a few FPH average for the perfectionist setup.

[Frackus]

Originally posted by Handoiron:

Drop the first aid line and just group heal. At your levels, group heal should be a full 50% heal.

Using self / ally <60% - group heal means every time your script triggers to cast it your entire group gets full healed.

That way, with your 2 hits before needing heal, you could go as many as 7 hits before healing your entire party to full health.

With your ally <60% first aid line, you could potentially end up having to first aid every hit for up to 6 hits in a row because, while first aid is a guaranteed full heal for that party member, the others could be left with 1 hit till needing a heal then get hit and trigger first aid instead of group heal.

Basically, first aid will full heal the triggered party member where group heal should full heal your entire party. At worst, group heal will heal all other party members to full and leave the triggering member just shy of full if the hit they took to trigger the heal brought them below 50%.

Not as large a FPH change as cutting out 1-2 defends a round but still a micro optimization that should gain a few FPH average for the perfectionist setup.

Removed self heal and reduced healing trigger to 50% to force 2 hits before healing. Not seeing an increase of fph but script is cleaner. Running evade setup so it takes awhile to get 2 hits on a single toon. I don't think there is any way for the "user" to increase fph beyond this without using outside help.

[Handoiron]

Well, you could technically see the absolute maximum FPH by taking a group into the dungeon at level 1 set to never do anything but instantly kill everything with claw / default attack. Something like 5xBM (no mana) and DL with claw and set all side paths to never except fairy set to run at the minimum mana level.

With that setup at the lowest level you should see the absolute max FPH based purely on 1 hit kill animation speed. That would be your "goal" to reach on higher levels where healing is actually needed.

[Frackus]

Originally posted by Handoiron:

Well, you could technically see the absolute maximum FPH by taking a group into the dungeon at level 1 set to never do anything but instantly kill everything with claw / default attack. Something like 5xBM (no mana) and DL with claw and set all side paths to never except fairy set to run at the minimum mana level.

With that setup at the lowest level you should see the absolute max FPH based purely on 1 hit kill animation speed. That would be your "goal" to reach on higher levels where healing is actually needed.

I ran the group DL and 5 BM and the fph is the same as my best that I have seen, 2370. RNG plays a big roll, is it a clean run without warp and ambush screens or do you have a few in each 10 levels. Tried to time it out with attack screens taking about a second and the warp and ambush taking 2-3 seconds. The worst observed was one ambush and two warp screens taking approx. 6 levels off the possible fph count for the 10 levels.