Balancing

[John Activision]

Now there are a lot off accusations as to what race is broken and weak af so i thought a discussion may solve the problem to an extent, personally i think Tau are way to broken with Spacies a close 2nd anyone concure.

[Din511]

Eldar and nec are broken to hell the rest are ok

[John Activision]

Originally posted by Din511:

Eldar and nec are broken to hell the rest are ok

but how is eldar and necrons broken, they seem pretty balanced, if necrons were at all considered op is solely because they have only power or pariahs and eldar can be underpowered

[revolut1oN]

dont be silly
eldar necron ig all the way
rest more or less ok

[John Activision]

Originally posted by _Revolut1oN:

dont be silly
eldar necron ig all the way
rest more or less ok

care to share why

[Malaficus Shaikan]

The eldar in dawn of war are a bit overpowerd.
While i do love the faction there is no other faction in dawn of war soulstorm(to my knowledge)
Who have things that can match a dark reaper sqaud(unupgraded no less) in mass murdering all infantry.
Space marines need devastators to match them in fire power and devastators need to set up.
Once i got 1 or 2 dark reapers on the field you can stop sending infantry there going to die anyway.
Dragon warriors are anti tank and anti building.
Two of them will take down any none-hq struceur in two or three shots.
An hq takes five to six shots.

An eldar farseer is the best commander.
Not the best warrior but her buff's and debuffs can defeat any commander.
Mind war alone can destroy a force commander and significantly weaken an necron lord.

Nightwings have anti everything guns, move extreemtly fast and are self healing.
Fire prisma got good armor, can jump and its attack cause knockdown.

Webway gates mean i can defend an entire map via rapid redoyloment.
And webways count as your sqaud and tanks increase building.
You will be building webways and unlike lesser factions the eldar dont have to spend resourses on research or unique buildings to be allowed greater armies.
Also webway gate with research allow for building relocation, invisiblity and healing of nearby infantry.

Yes the eldar can be defeated.
But unlike the other factions the eldar do have the best of everything.
The best anti infantry, the best tanks, the best anti building, etc.
There weakness of being overspecialized doesnt really mather when you can field whatever you need when you need it.
Banshee's might suck at range but we have dark reapers for that.
Dark reapers might suck in melee but banshee's will kill you before you get there.
Snipers arent as good as space marinies version but we dont have to buy an upgrade to equipe a single modle with a sniper.
We just have a sniper sqaud.

The eldar arent overpowered.
Everyone else is underpowered.

Get on our level mon-keigh.

[John Activision]

Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:

The eldar in dawn of war are a bit overpowerd.
While i do love the faction there is no other faction in dawn of war soulstorm(to my knowledge)
Who have things that can match a dark reaper sqaud(unupgraded no less) in mass murdering all infantry.
Space marines need devastators to match them in fire power and devastators need to set up.
Once i got 1 or 2 dark reapers on the field you can stop sending infantry there going to die anyway.
Dragon warriors are anti tank and anti building.
Two of them will take down any none-hq struceur in two or three shots.
An hq takes five to six shots.

An eldar farseer is the best commander.
Not the best warrior but her buff's and debuffs can defeat any commander.
Mind war alone can destroy a force commander and significantly weaken an necron lord.

Nightwings have anti everything guns, move extreemtly fast and are self healing.
Fire prisma got good armor, can jump and its attack cause knockdown.

Webway gates mean i can defend an entire map via rapid redoyloment.
And webways count as your sqaud and tanks increase building.
You will be building webways and unlike lesser factions the eldar dont have to spend resourses on research or unique buildings to be allowed greater armies.
Also webway gate with research allow for building relocation, invisiblity and healing of nearby infantry.

Yes the eldar can be defeated.
But unlike the other factions the eldar do have the best of everything.
The best anti infantry, the best tanks, the best anti building, etc.
There weakness of being overspecialized doesnt really mather when you can field whatever you need when you need it.
Banshee's might suck at range but we have dark reapers for that.
Dark reapers might suck in melee but banshee's will kill you before you get there.
Snipers arent as good as space marinies version but we dont have to buy an upgrade to equipe a single modle with a sniper.
We just have a sniper sqaud.

The eldar arent overpowered.
Everyone else is underpowered.

Get on our level mon-keigh.

Firstly Eldar are a specialized race, ofcourse reapers uck infantry they are ment to but they r useless in any other situation including inf. meele, fire dragons are specialized v structures n mechs but have no impact on anything else, nightwings are only good v infantry and have low hp, farseer has low hp also,webways countable with seeing unit and survelance, most eldar vehicles have high dmg but ♥♥♥♥ all health

if you want tofind an op race look at tau, tau have unbeatable range, they cant be caught in meele at all and have auxilary units like kroot, the only bad thing about them is their relic unit.

nice end remark btw

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Originally posted by Bugallo Bill:

Firstly Eldar are a specialized race, ofcourse reapers uck infantry they are ment to but they r useless in any other situation including inf. meele, fire dragons are specialized v structures n mechs but have no impact on anything else, nightwings are only good v infantry and have low hp, farseer has low hp also,webways countable with seeing unit and survelance, most eldar vehicles have high dmg but ♥♥♥♥ all health

if you want tofind an op race look at tau, tau have unbeatable range, they cant be caught in meele at all and have auxilary units like kroot, the only bad thing about them is their relic unit.

nice end remark btw

Thank you but to counter your point:
What about the tau is overpowered outside of firewarrior's?
A single firewarrior cost 70 requisiation per model.
Assault marines, fleet a foot banshee's, rocketboyz, sentinal's, snipers, teleport, etc.
I dont deny that a firewarrior has alot of firepower.
But there are several ways to bypass the range limet.
Just dont be stupid and stay in there line of sight.

Lets say you have a kroot and two firewarrior's.
Eldar counters:
A sniper sqaud: as neither kroot nor firewarrior's have anti stealth.
Or.
Banshee & dark reaper sqaud.
Dark reapers will have slaughter your kroot in seconds.
Fleet a foot will allow my banshee and dark reaper sqaud to get into range to kill both firewarrior's.
Sure i lose about 70% if my sqauds unit's but you lose your entire army.
And if we start bringing tanks in.....while tau anti tank is lacking.

Which brings me back why people call eldar overpowered.
They are indeed a specialized race.
One that has a counter to everything.

Compaire that to the necrons:
Slow moving, short ranged, anti everything guns.
Any commander worth anything know there weaknesses:
Long range anti heavy infantry.
Monolith's make them produce units faster and need to be taken out.
Only there builder unit can capture points meaning easy ambuses.
Have only one production center and most games are destroy all production center.
Most necron players build a second monolith somewhere in secret to avoid people from assasinating you by destroying your monolith.
The most common necron stratagy is:
Bring lord to enemy base>teleport in flayed once's>win.
The necrons lose the moment anti heavy infantry is online.
Wraith spam is also quiet populair.

Or the imperial gaurd:
Until you get plasma weapons the entire purpos of your gaurdman is to sock up bullets.
Gaurdman need to outnumber there enemies.
But they are able to field vast armies in the same time it would take an avarge tau player to get a kroot and two firewarrior's.
An imperial gaurd player can afford losses.
Losing a dark reaper or firewarrior sqaud hurts.
Losing several dozen gaurdman is thueseday.
And then there are sentinal, basalisk, chamira, leman russ and baneblade's.
Gaurd troops are cheap, easy to mass.
Same for there tanks.
Sure a space marine tank wins a 1vs1 but with the gaurd it is never a 1vs1.

Same for the orks.
They will drown you with numbers.

Or the dark eldar who are a win now or die later race.
They have weapons that make tau firewarrior's look weak in compairsion but there armor is none existant.
Honestly i dont play them much(i hate them :D for fluff reasons)

Or sisters of battle:
A crossbreed between gaurdman and space marine.
Emperor's touch still gives me nighmerries but beyond that there unremarkable.

Or chaos who once fully upgrade have armies of stealth troop's, and can summon demons anywhere in line of sight but suck when unupgraded.

[John Activision]

Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:

Originally posted by Bugallo Bill:

Firstly Eldar are a specialized race, ofcourse reapers uck infantry they are ment to but they r useless in any other situation including inf. meele, fire dragons are specialized v structures n mechs but have no impact on anything else, nightwings are only good v infantry and have low hp, farseer has low hp also,webways countable with seeing unit and survelance, most eldar vehicles have high dmg but ♥♥♥♥ all health

if you want tofind an op race look at tau, tau have unbeatable range, they cant be caught in meele at all and have auxilary units like kroot, the only bad thing about them is their relic unit.

nice end remark btw

Thank you but to counter your point:
What about the tau is overpowered outside of firewarrior's?
A single firewarrior cost 70 requisiation per model.
Assault marines, fleet a foot banshee's, rocketboyz, sentinal's, snipers, teleport, etc.
I dont deny that a firewarrior has alot of firepower.
But there are several ways to bypass the range limet.
Just dont be stupid and stay in there line of sight.

Lets say you have a kroot and two firewarrior's.
Eldar counters:
A sniper sqaud: as neither kroot nor firewarrior's have anti stealth.
Or.
Banshee & dark reaper sqaud.
Dark reapers will have slaughter your kroot in seconds.
Fleet a foot will allow my banshee and dark reaper sqaud to get into range to kill both firewarrior's.
Sure i lose about 70% if my sqauds unit's but you lose your entire army.
And if we start bringing tanks in.....while tau anti tank is lacking.

Which brings me back why people call eldar overpowered.
They are indeed a specialized race.
One that has a counter to everything.

Compaire that to the necrons:
Slow moving, short ranged, anti everything guns.
Any commander worth anything know there weaknesses:
Long range anti heavy infantry.
Monolith's make them produce units faster and need to be taken out.
Only there builder unit can capture points meaning easy ambuses.
Have only one production center and most games are destroy all production center.
Most necron players build a second monolith somewhere in secret to avoid people from assasinating you by destroying your monolith.
The most common necron stratagy is:
Bring lord to enemy base>teleport in flayed once's>win.
The necrons lose the moment anti heavy infantry is online.
Wraith spam is also quiet populair.

Or the imperial gaurd:
Until you get plasma weapons the entire purpos of your gaurdman is to sock up bullets.
Gaurdman need to outnumber there enemies.
But they are able to field vast armies in the same time it would take an avarge tau player to get a kroot and two firewarrior's.
An imperial gaurd player can afford losses.
Losing a dark reaper or firewarrior sqaud hurts.
Losing several dozen gaurdman is thueseday.
And then there are sentinal, basalisk, chamira, leman russ and baneblade's.
Gaurd troops are cheap, easy to mass.
Same for there tanks.
Sure a space marine tank wins a 1vs1 but with the gaurd it is never a 1vs1.

Same for the orks.
They will drown you with numbers.

Or the dark eldar who are a win now or die later race.
They have weapons that make tau firewarrior's look weak in compairsion but there armor is none existant.
Honestly i dont play them much(i hate them :D for fluff reasons)

Or sisters of battle:
A crossbreed between gaurdman and space marine.
Emperor's touch still gives me nighmerries but beyond that there unremarkable.

Or chaos who once fully upgrade have armies of stealth troop's, and can summon demons anywhere in line of sight but suck when unupgraded.

your thinking to basically, in my games i get mechs first :}, yeh cocky i know but true, who nees banshees reapers when u have wraithlords 4 mins in, or if ur tau devilfish 3-4 mins. your thinking more the moderate players strategies but iv surpased these (i know more cocky) but i see what u mean and from your standpoint, but i was at that stage and i dealed with eldar quite easy idk how but i managed
sorry for being vague its not much of a counter argument.

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Originally posted by Bugallo Bill:

your thinking to basically, in my games i get mechs first :}, yeh cocky i know but true, who nees banshees reapers when u have wraithlords 4 mins in, or if ur tau devilfish 3-4 mins. your thinking more the moderate players strategies but iv surpased these (i know more cocky) but i see what u mean and from your standpoint, but i was at that stage and i dealed with eldar quite easy idk how but i managed
sorry for being vague its not much of a counter argument.

Knowing you got a problem is the firs step on fixing it(god knows how long my list of things i have to fix is and it wont stop growing)

Being good in the game doesnt counter the fact people consider eldar overpowered.

My skill with eldar is vastly supperior to my skill with orks.
Honestly i cant rap my head around the ork cap.
Doesnt mean ork suck just that i am not good at it.

I think you confuse overpowered with invincable.
If we define overpowered as having an advantage over other factions then yes the eldar are overpowered.
Simply because unlike the other factions they lack a weakness to make up for there ability.
Necrons are slow.
Tau firewarrior suck in melee combat, they dont have turrets and they lack heavy armor.
Imperial gaurd rely on numbers.

What weakness do the eldar have they cant simple counter?

[Syndicate._.]

guy above me is right on this. There is nothing the eldar can't counter as long as they have a combined army.Supported artillery seemes to be the only problem they have.

[Fargoth]

Necron

[John Activision]

Originally posted by Paladinde:

Necron

lol but why

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Originally posted by Syndicate:

guy above me is right on this. There is nothing the eldar can't counter as long as they have a combined army.Supported artillery seemes to be the only problem they have.

Fleet of foot says: bye.

[John Activision]

Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:

Originally posted by Syndicate:

guy above me is right on this. There is nothing the eldar can't counter as long as they have a combined army.Supported artillery seemes to be the only problem they have.

Fleet of foot says: bye.

fof is not that good, its good for running away, and the only foreseable reason for use is a retreat, and if used in battle accuracy is fluffed

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Originally posted by Bugallo Bill:

Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:

Fleet of foot says: bye.

fof is not that good, its good for running away, and the only foreseable reason for use is a retreat, and if used in battle accuracy is fluffed

If artillery is comming down on you the goal is to run away......
Or towards the target so we can kill it.
Depends on how well defended the artillery is.