C'tan vs all tyranids?

[Malaficus Shaikan]

The c'tan are supposedly reality warpers.
The exactly level of reality warping entity isnt entirely clear.

This confuses me.
The way they are talked about the war in the heavens shoud have lasted 15 seconds.
I mean reality warping pretty much means: Nope your laws dont apply because i say so.
I asume the reason it as long as it did was because they wherent fighting but eating.
After all we arent droping a nuke on an anthill.
Wast of firepower.

The tyranids have eaten atleast one(and probley more galaxie's).
They outnumber, outproduce and out adapt pretty much anything.

There are plenty of arguments who would win a war between the nercons and the tyranids.
With the two most common outcome: The tyranids eat everything that isnt necron then leave.
Or the tyranids eat everything then get slaughtered by the necrons.
Regardless who wins everyone else loses.

But the C'tan are supposedly on a way higher level of power then even the necrons at there hight.
The necrons had to sucker punch them in order to shard them.

So here is my questions:

How much damage can a c'tan shard do a tyranid hive fleet?
How much damage can a trensendant c'tan do to the tyranids?
Could the C'tan beat the tyranids entire spieces?
And would the necrons be stupid enough to release them when the tyranids show up in full force?

[The Creepy Cupcake]

Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:

How much damage can a c'tan shard do a tyranid hive fleet?

A C'tan shard would be on par with a greater demon, like a high-ranked Bloodthirster or even a Living Saint in terms of power, so it would absolutely be a a terror against a Tyranid fleet. Also, since they have no connection to the Warp, A C'tan would be immune to the "Shadow in the Warp" phenomenon that occurs when a Tyranid fleet approaches, meaning they wouldn't feel paralyzed with fear or filled with dread.

However, the sheer numbers and extreme adaptability of the Tyranids would mean they'd eventually succum to attrition.

Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:

How much damage can a trensendant c'tan do to the tyranids?

Only 4 C'tan are known to still have a physical bodies, and they're far more powerul than the others ever were because they were the ones that consumed the souls of the Necrontyr. We may never know how powerful they really are, however, because none of these 4 are really in fighting shape.

The Nightbringer was the most powerful of the 4, but it's been divided into shards (1 of those was apparently on Terra and became the inspiration for the Grim Reaper).

The Deciever suffered the same fate as the Nightbringer, but was by far the weakest of the 4.

The Void Dragon is still whole, but is in a form os stasis sleep on Mars.

The Outsider hasn't been seen since the War in Heaven, having been driven insane by some psychic attack and then fleeing into the void between galaxies.

Odds are, we may never know the true extent of a transcendant C'tan's power.

Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:

Could the C'tan beat the tyranids entire spieces?

We don't know exactly how many Tyranids exist, but since every invading Hive Fleet has entered the galaxy from a different direction, including below, then they're probably numerous beyond belief. Not to mention we have no idea where they come from or hpw far they've spread. With just the 4 C'tan in their current state, the C'tan would win in the short term, but even a star god wears down eventually, and no one is better at attrition than the Tyranids.

Even if they were all whole and ready to fight, they wouldn't have the support of the Necrons meaning it would just be those 4 on their own.

Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:

And would the necrons be stupid enough to release them when the tyranids show up in full force?

Considering the fractious nature of the Necron race, and the fact that many C'tan shards have been misplaced over the millenia, the Deciever and Nightbringer would likely never be made truly whole again. As for the two that are still whole: the Void Dragon, if it were to fully awaken, would gladly fight, but the Outsider seems to have abandoned the Milky Way completely. The latter may even be fighting the Tyranids in the intergalactic void, hell, the Outsider may be the only reason the Tyranids haven't fully enveloped the galaxy yet.


To sum it up, with only 4 physical C'tan in existence, and only 1 of them being both whole and combat ready, the Tyranids would lose in the short term, but they would win eventually. It'd be like when the Orks invaded Armageddon: the Imperium may be holding them off, but the Orks will eventually bleed them dry.

[Malaficus Shaikan]

I agree with most of your post execpt for this part:

Originally posted by The Creepy Cupcake:

We don't know exactly how many Tyranids exist, but since every invading Hive Fleet has entered the galaxy from a different direction, including below, then they're probably numerous beyond belief. Not to mention we have no idea where they come from or hpw far they've spread. With just the 4 C'tan in their current state, the C'tan would win in the short term, but even a star god wears down eventually, and no one is better at attrition than the Tyranids.

From my point of view the tyranids are an all you can eat buffet for the C'tan.
Yes the tyranids are the masters of attrition but we are talking about beings who grow stronger the more they eat.
The tyranids would run out of bodies because of the C'tan endless hunger.

Near-infinite number still isnt infinite.

[The Creepy Cupcake]

Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:

I agree with most of your post execpt for this part:

Originally posted by The Creepy Cupcake:

We don't know exactly how many Tyranids exist, but since every invading Hive Fleet has entered the galaxy from a different direction, including below, then they're probably numerous beyond belief. Not to mention we have no idea where they come from or hpw far they've spread. With just the 4 C'tan in their current state, the C'tan would win in the short term, but even a star god wears down eventually, and no one is better at attrition than the Tyranids.

From my point of view the tyranids are an all you can eat buffet for the C'tan.
Yes the tyranids are the masters of attrition but we are talking about beings who grow stronger the more they eat.
The tyranids would run out of bodies because of the C'tan endless hunger.

Near-infinite number still isnt infinite.

One thing I forgot to mention was that the 4 remaining C'tan also cannibalized many of their fellow C'tan in addition to consuming the souls of the Necrontyr during the War in Heaven, gaining all of their power in the process.

Another thing to note is that we don't know exactly how much "soul" a Tyranid has. Considering all Tyranids revert to little more than wild animals when they lose connection to the Hive Mind, it's possible they don't have much of an individual soul, at least not the smaller ones like Rippers and Gargoyles. Larger synapse creatures like Hive Tyrants and Brood Lords, as well as more specialized bioforms like Lictors and Carnifexes, may possess some form of a soul due to them being more intelligent than other Tyranids, but even these revert to a feral state when contact with the Hive Mind is lost.

A theory I've read about involves the Tyranids possessing one enormous, shared soul spread accross all Tyranid creatures, the soul in question being the Hive Mind itself.

There's simply too many unknowns to get an absolutely definitive answer, but that's one of the great things about Warhammer 40 000. There's loads of room for speculation and for people's own spin on things, which is the basis for great lore and mythology.

[Ashardalon]

there are also things like the swarmlord that even when killed by soul destroiing weapons can just be remade in several hives in several locations at once
its soul is a borrowed thing that the hive grants it eventho it has free will
by most accounts tyranids have no souls to eat so a c'tan trying to eat them would waste even more energy trying to digest them
also the doom of malankai
basicly a weaponized null, a reverse zoantrope
it also ate souls, it ate all the souls of a craftworld, a part of the webway and took a bite out of the eldars new god of death as it desperatly ran away (the god not the nid)
it would be poison to the c'tan

but most of all the reason the c'tan wouldnt have a great time is the same reason they didnt just win vs the ancients
the c'tan are the gods of realspace but they have no power in the warp and very little defence against things from the warp
they can win in a brawl vs a materialized deamon but against the actual space warping properties of the empyrean or currently the warp they have very litrtle defence
they can warp realspace (not using the warp to do it) back into its original form but they cant stop the warp from doing warping
so a large number of zoantropes would be able to mindblast the c'tan into submission with very few losses
one of the reason they need their metal servants

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Originally posted by Ashardalon:

there are also things like the swarmlord that even when killed by soul destroiing weapons can just be remade in several hives in several locations at once
its soul is a borrowed thing that the hive grants it eventho it has free will
by most accounts tyranids have no souls to eat so a c'tan trying to eat them would waste even more energy trying to digest them
also the doom of malankai
basicly a weaponized null, a reverse zoantrope
it also ate souls, it ate all the souls of a craftworld, a part of the webway and took a bite out of the eldars new god of death as it desperatly ran away (the god not the nid)
it would be poison to the c'tan

but most of all the reason the c'tan wouldnt have a great time is the same reason they didnt just win vs the ancients
the c'tan are the gods of realspace but they have no power in the warp and very little defence against things from the warp
they can win in a brawl vs a materialized deamon but against the actual space warping properties of the empyrean or currently the warp they have very litrtle defence
they can warp realspace (not using the warp to do it) back into its original form but they cant stop the warp from doing warping
so a large number of zoantropes would be able to mindblast the c'tan into submission with very few losses
They dont eat soulsone of the reason they need their metal servants

1: They eat life energie(no clue what the difference is but it has been stated several times the C'tan eat life energie not souls.)
2: The blackstone fortress where design to kill C'tan and all it did was make one sleepy.
The war is the heavens was a curbstomb in favor the the C'tan.
3: They won the war in the heavens and had to be sucker punched by the Necrons shattered the C'tan with weapons that focused the unimaginable energies of the living universe

I get it that the tyranids would eventualy adapt(It is there thing).
But it is getting pretty tiresome to read people thinking they eat souls.

Them eating the necrons souls would be like someone in real life being so brain damage that they can barely move.
I knew a guy who had an agressive big mouth behind hole until he got a heart attack.
Now he is a smily idiot barely able to speak.

Eating souls in 40k terms would be the equivialent of eating small amounts of warp energie.
It would be like us eating nuclear waste.
With pretty much the same result.

The way i see it:
C'tan sees a tyranid fleet.
Fly towards it.
Blinks its eyes.
Entire tyranid fleet is reduced to molucules.

I do believe the tyranids are a threat to the C'tan otherwise they woudnt fight it.
But eat it like they did the old once's.
They like suffering and pain.
The tyranids dont feel either.
This means they wont be playing with there food.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskScienceFiction/comments/2tibdo/40k_what_exactly_is_a_ctan/

[Ashardalon]

the blackstone fortress was just something made by eldar, not old ones
ofcourse it barely scratched them

they didnt curbstomp the old ones
the old ones where only killed because so many people died horrible deaths that the empyrean turned into the warp and the enslaver plague happened
until that happened it was a pretty even fight

"The C'tan empire proved unable to counter this new form of psychic warfare. Eventually they became devoted to severing reality's relationship to the Immaterium in order to make psychic powers useless. Yet, even as the C'tan and the Necrons seemed to finally be driven back, the younger races' psychic instability allowed the Enslavers, a terrible species of Warp entities who could enslave the minds of psykers to create living gateways into the material world for others of their kind, to enter realspace."

might be a bit you missed

they are weak vs psychers, they have no defense against psychers beyond trying to cut of the warp from the materium completely
at this point in 40k the materium and the warp have been so intertwined that that is a hopeless endevour

if its a fight between necrons and nids, necrons would win but without their slaves to support them the c'tan wouldnt stand a chanse
too specialized, the second hive would kill them

also lol the link you sent was about how the emperor beat the void dragon with a pointy stick
if your psychic enough the c'tan arnt a big deal unles they have support

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Originally posted by Ashardalon:

the blackstone fortress was just something made by eldar, not old ones
ofcourse it barely scratched them

they didnt curbstomp the old ones
the old ones where only killed because so many people died horrible deaths that the empyrean turned into the warp and the enslaver plague happened
until that happened it was a pretty even fight

"The C'tan empire proved unable to counter this new form of psychic warfare. Eventually they became devoted to severing reality's relationship to the Immaterium in order to make psychic powers useless. Yet, even as the C'tan and the Necrons seemed to finally be driven back, the younger races' psychic instability allowed the Enslavers, a terrible species of Warp entities who could enslave the minds of psykers to create living gateways into the material world for others of their kind, to enter realspace."

might be a bit you missed

I didnt miss it.
The fight wasnt even.
The old ones where losing and the lack of food caused the C'tan to fight among themself.
This gave the old ones time to rebuild but they where losing.
Yes the enslavers killed off the old ones*.
But they where already losing.
Who knowns.
Meaby they could have come back from near-defeat.
The enslavers ensured we will never know.

I do agree that the hive fleet will probley find a way to send C'tan into the warp.
I dont believe C'tan can be killed in the material universe but in the warp they wont last 1 milisecond.
I interpert the blackstone fortress as a failed attempt to send one of them into the warp.

I read anything related to the plot-emperor as duex ex machina.
Him defeating the tyranid main fleet by sneezing woudnt suprise me in the slightes given how his powers are always as strong as they need to be.....


*Or forced them to flee according to some theories.

[Ashardalon]

its nice if you can just ignore all evidence that counters your ideas

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Originally posted by Ashardalon:

its nice if you can just ignore all evidence that counters your ideas

It is 40k.
Pick the parts you like is part of the package.

[Ashardalon]

Originally posted by Malaficus Shaikan:

Originally posted by Ashardalon:

its nice if you can just ignore all evidence that counters your ideas

It is 40k.
Pick the parts you like is part of the package.

then ill pick the part where the doom of malakai can just eat the full c'tan pantheon while they are at full power without even breaking a sweat
its accurate according to the lore
dont even need a second fleet, just a single nid

[SSSIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNDDWWRRYYYYY]

I must add something : they are rumors saying the tyranids come to our galaxy because they flee from something, and there's a high chance it's The Outsider.
If that is true then you can get an idea of how powerfull a C'tan can be.

[Ashardalon]

The Tyranids were first attracted to the Milky Way Galaxy when the xenos communication device known as the Pharos was overloaded in the Battle of Sotha during the Horus Heresy.
after that they noticed the astronomican
the tyranids come to our galaxy to eat the Emperor

[Arii]

Originally posted by Ashardalon:

The Tyranids were first attracted to the Milky Way Galaxy when the xenos communication device known as the Pharos was overloaded in the Battle of Sotha during the Horus Heresy.
after that they noticed the astronomican
the tyranids come to our galaxy to eat the Emperor

Di'kut is right, I've heard of that theory as well. We don't fully know why Tyranids chose our galaxy. There's even a theory states that the Outsider himself is the mastermind behind Tyranid invasion.

[Ashardalon]

Originally posted by D-503:

Originally posted by Ashardalon:

The Tyranids were first attracted to the Milky Way Galaxy when the xenos communication device known as the Pharos was overloaded in the Battle of Sotha during the Horus Heresy.
after that they noticed the astronomican
the tyranids come to our galaxy to eat the Emperor

Di'kut is right, I've heard of that theory as well. We don't fully know why Tyranids chose our galaxy. There's even a theory states that the Outsider himself is the mastermind behind Tyranid invasion.

it is an existing theory but i dont know any lore to confirm it
(edit: except for a single ultramarine librarion, but its an ultramarine so thats not thrustworthy and it was a librarian getting its brain fried by the shadow so also not reliable, psychers have lots of delusions in the shadow, usually meant to scare, for a marine something scary enough to scare away a treat that can eat the galaxy might be what was seen as neccesary to scare him)
there is also a theory that says nids are servants of the ancients here to collect all biological data and save it like somekind of giant biological encyclopedia the ancients can use to rebuild after they fix the chaos issue
lots and lots of theories around nids motivations, comes with having a faction that never says its motivation

known things in the lore is that they noticed the Pharos device and when looking in the galaxies direction they spotted the astronomican where every hive has been targetted at since

might be just the occams razor of the possible theories, but i still think eating the emperor is the most logical reason for their interest

if the hive mind was running wouldnt it be smarter to spread out, dissipate, it wont save everything but it would ensure survival
nothing in the 40k galaxy could save the nids from something that could scare the nids
nids and necrons are on a whole new level of dangerous stuff even in 40k, maybe orks can be included but barely

if the real hive is running, not the tiny tendrils that have invaded yet
not even if every necron woke up, shook hands with the orks and asked for an alliance with the imperium while the emperor decideds that 10k years was long enough for a nap and got up
would the 40k galaxy have a reason to pass trough it
nothing here could save nids from something that can scare the real hive