Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War - Soulstorm

Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War - Soulstorm

Gorwe Jul 10, 2017 @ 12:41pm
AI cheating
At which level does it begin to cheat? Harder or Insane?

Harder doesn't seem like a level playing field tbh.
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Showing 1-13 of 13 comments
BrendyBear Jul 10, 2017 @ 4:21pm 
Define cheating.

The AI gets resource advantages on Harder and Insane. I believe its +20% for Harder and +40% for Insane. Its the same amount of resources as you on easy, normal and hard.
The AI gets more HP on Hard difficulty and above, not sure on the percentage increases though. You get more HP on easy, and the same on normal.
The AI intelligence is maximum on hard. For easy and normal its dumbed down. Its the same for Harder and Insane.

The AI does also get some information that players do not. I've noticed that it seems to know the locations of your HQs and directs its attacks to those locations. This means its knows the starting positions of players at the game start, and can act accordingly. Wheras a human player in 1v1 on an 8 player map will need to search for their enemy if the starting location is random.
The AI also knows the locations of stealthed soldiers, and will direct detectors to their locations. Sometimes it even drops AOE abilities on them. This is most obvious when playing against the guard as it will keep randomly dropping sensor sweeps directly onto your stealthed units, even though it should not know they are there. I think it has these on all difficulties.

That said, the AI is pretty dumb. You can typically outfight it in tactical battles as long as you don't let it build up a swarm that will overrun you. The AI will happily suicide its units against you and as long as you keep pressure on it you will gradually get stronger and it won't. Just make sure you only fight when you will win, otherwise retreat.
Gorwe Jul 10, 2017 @ 4:52pm 
Originally posted by BrendyBear:
Define cheating.

The AI gets resource advantages on Harder and Insane. I believe its +20% for Harder and +40% for Insane. Its the same amount of resources as you on easy, normal and hard.
The AI gets more HP on Hard difficulty and above, not sure on the percentage increases though. You get more HP on easy, and the same on normal.
The AI intelligence is maximum on hard. For easy and normal its dumbed down. Its the same for Harder and Insane.

The AI does also get some information that players do not. I've noticed that it seems to know the locations of your HQs and directs its attacks to those locations. This means its knows the starting positions of players at the game start, and can act accordingly. Wheras a human player in 1v1 on an 8 player map will need to search for their enemy if the starting location is random.
The AI also knows the locations of stealthed soldiers, and will direct detectors to their locations. Sometimes it even drops AOE abilities on them. This is most obvious when playing against the guard as it will keep randomly dropping sensor sweeps directly onto your stealthed units, even though it should not know they are there. I think it has these on all difficulties.

That said, the AI is pretty dumb. You can typically outfight it in tactical battles as long as you don't let it build up a swarm that will overrun you. The AI will happily suicide its units against you and as long as you keep pressure on it you will gradually get stronger and it won't. Just make sure you only fight when you will win, otherwise retreat.

Aha. Thanks!

It seemed to me that he was cheating Resource wise on Harder and Insane. You simply can't tech that fast.

I wasn't aware about the HP. Is this only in Campaign or also in Skirmish? I think that I was actually aware of Campaign extra HP.

edit: it seems I'll be playing on Hard / Normal speed-Fast speed. I've no use for an AI that cheats. It's not at all pleasurable to play like that.
Last edited by Gorwe; Jul 10, 2017 @ 4:54pm
BrendyBear Jul 11, 2017 @ 2:12am 
Aha. Thanks!

It seemed to me that he was cheating Resource wise on Harder and Insane. You simply can't tech that fast.

I wasn't aware about the HP. Is this only in Campaign or also in Skirmish? I think that I was actually aware of Campaign extra HP.

edit: it seems I'll be playing on Hard / Normal speed-Fast speed. I've no use for an AI that cheats. It's not at all pleasurable to play like that.

I think that the extra HP is only on the campaign. The skirmish AIs extra resources really give it an edge if you don't contest the map and try to turtle. It just swarms like crazy and overruns anything.
K84 Jul 11, 2017 @ 2:43am 
I'm fairly sure that HP bonuses and handicaps are only in the campaign.
Gorwe Jul 11, 2017 @ 3:23am 
Originally posted by BrendyBear:
Aha. Thanks!

It seemed to me that he was cheating Resource wise on Harder and Insane. You simply can't tech that fast.

I wasn't aware about the HP. Is this only in Campaign or also in Skirmish? I think that I was actually aware of Campaign extra HP.

edit: it seems I'll be playing on Hard / Normal speed-Fast speed. I've no use for an AI that cheats. It's not at all pleasurable to play like that.

I think that the extra HP is only on the campaign. The skirmish AIs extra resources really give it an edge if you don't contest the map and try to turtle. It just swarms like crazy and overruns anything.

Yeah. This gives a HUGE advantage to swarm armies when AI plays them(Orks, IG). Orks especially are pain in the ass to play against. Defensive turrets on every building, swarms and green tide everywhere...cheating scumbag AI...yeah, ok. lol

That AI usually defeats every other AI. Rather easily because once it gets going...the green tide steam rolls everything in front of it. The Green steam roller lol.
76561198200638999 Jul 12, 2017 @ 5:11am 
Originally posted by BrendyBear:
That said, the AI is pretty dumb.
Summerizes this "problem" quite well. The AI for some races is better than for others, and for a few it is rock stupid. IG and DE probably being the worst offenders, since both races require specific strategies to succed and will simply get raped if they try throwing units at the enemy without any support. DE even builds multiple structures a few times more than it needs to, and spams Raiders as if they were a good unit.

Ork AI is definetly the best. Uses almost everything the race has IIRC.
BrendyBear Jul 12, 2017 @ 5:30am 
Originally posted by Uncle Skull:
Originally posted by BrendyBear:
That said, the AI is pretty dumb.
Summerizes this "problem" quite well. The AI for some races is better than for others, and for a few it is rock stupid. IG and DE probably being the worst offenders, since both races require specific strategies to succed and will simply get raped if they try throwing units at the enemy without any support. DE even builds multiple structures a few times more than it needs to, and spams Raiders as if they were a good unit.

Ork AI is definetly the best. Uses almost everything the race has IIRC.

Hmm, I find the Tau AI to be the best. Its pretty brutal in how effectively it can use the Tau units and their abilities. If it goes Kauyon and has plenty of resources and isn't pressured it can get pretty savage.
I find the AI can be a bit hit and miss though, even on insane. Sometimes it plays really well, even for IG and DE, and sometimes it just spams its basic units and never upgrades past tier 2. I'd probably say that the Sisters AI is the weakest though. I never seem to have too much trouble against them. They only seem so spam their basic infantry and Rhino transports.
76561198200638999 Jul 12, 2017 @ 5:52am 
I cant remember much about the Tau AI honestly. Its been a while since I played against the AI. AI sometimes screws up big time if it lacks build space, gets a brainfart, cannot tech up and as you said just spams basic infantry. Especially embarrasing if it happens with IG...

Bolter ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ are the worst faction in the game, nobody mains them and you'll only see them when someone picks random. The only player who did and who was pretty good with them outright told me they are crap. They have 7 things going for them, everything else is horrid:
1. Celestians - best AV infantry in the entire game, without a doubt. When critical mass is reached, they can pack good heat against ground targets too if they have enough inferno pistols.
2. Seraphim - can be ultra annoying since they can move shoot and still have almost the same accuracy as if they were standing still which is a big deal. This enables them to fly around, kill builders and wreck weaker buildings like generators in good hands. Krak grenades help too.
3. Inferno pistols - cheap, deadly, FoTN accuracy.
4. Exorcist - while the basilisk can disrupt infantry very well, the organ artillery makes infantry almost useless as long as it keeps firing. The AV missile also has unlimited range.
5. That torture machine that has a almost naked woman strapped to a exoskeleton - great flamer, great durability, melee when needing to tie up or kill vehicles.
6. Confessor is squishy as far as heroes go but his 2 abilities are game changers when used right, almost IG ability to change the battlefield in an instant.
7. Repentia are pretty sweet. Situational, tough.
Last edited by Uncle Skull; Jul 12, 2017 @ 5:52am
Kiloton Jul 13, 2017 @ 12:26pm 
The AI ignores fog of war and sometimes keeps troops just outside your unit's spotting range while waiting for a chance to counter-attack.
Originally posted by BrendyBear:
Define cheating.

The AI gets resource advantages on Harder and Insane. I believe its +20% for Harder and +40% for Insane. Its the same amount of resources as you on easy, normal and hard.
The AI gets more HP on Hard difficulty and above, not sure on the percentage increases though. You get more HP on easy, and the same on normal.
The AI intelligence is maximum on hard. For easy and normal its dumbed down. Its the same for Harder and Insane.

The AI does also get some information that players do not. I've noticed that it seems to know the locations of your HQs and directs its attacks to those locations. This means its knows the starting positions of players at the game start, and can act accordingly. Wheras a human player in 1v1 on an 8 player map will need to search for their enemy if the starting location is random.
The AI also knows the locations of stealthed soldiers, and will direct detectors to their locations. Sometimes it even drops AOE abilities on them. This is most obvious when playing against the guard as it will keep randomly dropping sensor sweeps directly onto your stealthed units, even though it should not know they are there. I think it has these on all difficulties.

That said, the AI is pretty dumb. You can typically outfight it in tactical battles as long as you don't let it build up a swarm that will overrun you. The AI will happily suicide its units against you and as long as you keep pressure on it you will gradually get stronger and it won't. Just make sure you only fight when you will win, otherwise retreat.

I'll define it, when losing it goes what i call into "God Mode".
Units start tanking insane damage, IE; Servo Skull taking 2 Tanks, and a Landcruiser for over 25 hits before dying.
The computer just spams Orbital Strikes/Commander skills over, and over without a cooldown.
It creates more units than the pop cap allows, and sends them from every angle.

It doesn't do this all the time, but you can tell when it decides it will win no matter what.
Originally posted by WickedWing:
I'll define it, when losing it goes what i call into "God Mode".
Holy necro post, but what you posted is flat-out impossible.

In the past 15+ years, modders have looked deep into the game's code, and there's absolutely nothing that allows AI-controlled units to alter their HP or damage reduction mid-game.
Yeah bit of a necro here. I haven't played SS in years. But I'll explain on what I remember about the AI:

The only way the AI cheats is that it has full information while the player has to content with fog of war. It knows exactly how strong your army is and where your structures and units are located at all times. This allows it to be able to attack units that it has no vision on, use abilities on infiltrated units, capture undefended strategic points and launch early attacks directly at your starting location without having to scout first. Hiding secondary bases is impossible against the AI as it always knows where they are, although it sometimes ignores them as it's programmed to focus on HQs. Building a HQ somewhere is a good way to provoke an attack on that location.

It will usually skirmish and launch small attacks to keep up pressure. This is made more effective because it knows where your units are and where you are exposed. It will launch a major attack when it thinks it's army is stronger than the player, targeting the weakest player when possible. A player having 1 bad battle in a big game where they lose a big chunk of their forces often leads to all the AI players suddenly swarm attacking that player when they are weak. That player is usually screwed when that happens, although the AIs will expose themselves to counter attack from other players.

There's also massive variation in the behaviour of the AI. The AI plays some factions better than others, with simpler factions it plays stronger (Orks, Tau) while more technical factions it plays weaker (Imperial Guard, Dark Eldar). There's also some kind of personalities built into it (maybe decision threshold values that are randomised at game start?). Some are passive, some aggressive, some do early rushes, some attack relentlessly the entire game, some just turtle, some are near brain dead and never tech up and occasionally you'll run into one that plays exceptionally well.
Bunny92B Mar 30 @ 5:42pm 
The most annoying thing about unmodded AI is that very often it build no generators at all.
It's very frustrating when you're playing with AI as an ally. You'll struggle hard with power.
Also AI focus mostly on player, even if player is allied with other AI.
As for the campaign AI rush the player since game start, very early on.

Unmodded DoW AI reminds me of AI in non DE Age of Empires series(1-3).
AoE AI focus it's attacks mostly on player only, ignoring allied AI's.

Because of all the above I'm using bugfix mod for years that not only fixes SP/campaign bugs but also improves the AI both in skirmish and campaign. Both DC and SS has bugfix mod.
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