Mission 2 Explanation? - Art Gallery [SPOILERS]

[Dr Jurden Peterbergsteinlerwitz]

THIS WILL CONTAIN SPOILER FOR MISSION 2 - ART GALLERY
****************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

I need to understand what happened, as it makes no sense to me:

1. Mac steals artwork before Tommy, then replaced it with a forgery.
2. Tommy arrives and steal then steals the forgery.
3. Mac and Tommy meet in toilet.
4. MAGIC!
5. Tommy suddenly got the real art.

How did that happen? I know they bumped into each other when the fire alarm went off, but I saw/heard no indication they swapped paintings?

Good game though.

[[ZSU] Dave247]

My god this whole thing was so convoluted that it made my brain hurt trying to figure it out. Even when I came to this thread, read it over and thought I had it figured out, turns out I was still wrong until coming back to this thread a second time.

Maybe I'm just dumb but even other puzzles games that are too hard for me and I have to cheat for, the solution still mostly makes sense. Whereas this there was way too many threads going on all at once for me to follow, and the comment thing wasn't enough to be able to keep track of the paintings movements.

I think I'm just gonna refund the game for my own sanity's sake as if this was only the second level, I don't even want to know what hell the rest of them are like. Though if the rest of them are easier, then it was a stupid decision putting the hardest case as the second one you play.

[Psyringe]

This case threw me off for a long time. I thought I had the solution and didn't understand why it was wrong. Then I started thinking that the devs may have made a mistake. But I think I get it now. The case _does_ make sense, but only if we assume two things that aren't spelled out anywhere.

1. Reeves never "stole" the real painting, in the sense that she never physically took it. She _does_ have an accomplice (the one she talks about in her call) who forged the painting, and that person obviously must have had a way to see the original. But we can assume that Reeves just made a photo of the original and sent that to her accomplice - just like Sean made a photo, sent it to Greene, and Greene sent it to Mac so that Mac could create his own forgery. Reeves' accomplice is never named and is not in the area (when she talks to him over the phone, no one in the gallery is answering to her).

2. Mac stole the real painting before the recording starts. He tells Greene that he swapped the paintings in the store room. This means that a) there must have been a time where the painting was already in the safe, but no one was in the store room, so Mac was able to sneak in (plausible), and b) Mac must have had a way to get into the safe. This is never explained, but several possibilities exist: He may be a skilled lockpick/safecracker in addition to being a forger, or Greene (who obviously has access to a lot of internal info from the gallery) knows the combo (which may not have changed for a while, Tommy calls it "the old combo") and told it to Mac, or Mac may have spied on the person who put the painting into the safe. We _can_ assume that one of these took place, otherwise Mac wouldn't have been able to get the real painting.

With these two assumptions, the case makes sense to me.

==========================================

In case someone's still confused (or wants to discuss further, I may have overlooked something), here's an extended timeline:

1. Reeves takes a photo of the original painting and sends it to her accomplice, who creates a forgery - let's call it "Reeves' forgery" since the accomplice is never named. This may have taken place before the painting even arrived at the gallery. In any case, when the recording starts, Reeves has this forgery with her.

2. When the painting arrives at the gallery, Sean also takes a photo and sends it to Greene (who had asked for a sneak peek). Greene sends this photo to Mac, who creates another forgery ("Mac's forgery").

3. On the day the exhibition opens (or earlier), Claude takes the real painting and puts it in the safe in the storage room.

4. Shortly before the recording starts, Mac snuck into the storage and replaced the real painting with his forgery.

5. Reeves shows Greene the forgery that her accomplica made. Greene trusts Reeves that this is the real painting. Greene receives a call from Mac and tells him that their deal is off. Mac tells him that he stole the real painting from the storage room. Greene convinces Mac that the painting in the storage room must have been a forgery provided by Reeves, because he (Greene) believes that he has just seen the real painting in Reeves' hands. Greene then buys Reeves' forgery from Reeves.

6. Tommy does what Claude instructed him to do: He takes the painting out of the safe (which is, at this point, Mac's forgery, but neither Tommy nor Claude know about that). Tommy is supposed to smuggle the painting out of the building, but goes to the bathroom first.

7. Mac, who also happens to be in the bathroom, sees Tommy carrying the painting. He creates a distraction by triggering the smoke detectors and swaps the paintings. This means he actually gets his own forgery back while giving Tommy the original.

8. Mac presents his painting to Greene as the "real one". Greene is confused because he thought he just bought the real painting from Reeves. Actually though they both have forgeries.

9. Tommy clumsily lets himself get caught by the security guard while trying to smuggle the painting out of the building. The guard inds the painting and returns it to the gallery.

==========================================

There are still two things I'm not quite sure about though:

A) What was Greene's plan? He had Mac create a forgery for him, but he also had the money on hand to buy the painting from Reeves. If he planned to buy the painting anyway, then why create a forgery - especially one from a photo, when he could later give the forger the original to work with? It's likely that Greene's plans changed somewhere along the road, but then why did he still want to meet with Mac in this gallery?

B) When Tommy gets caught, he yells that the painting isn't worth anything anyway. This makes little sense, because Tommy always believes that he has the real painting.

[Vorpoler]

@Psyringe, thank you for your response. Your post has by far the most succinct and detailed explanation of everything that occurred, and also makes a lot of sense and attempts to account for all variables by providing possible explanations.

I would like to help by hypothesizing possible explanations to the two things you weren't sure about. Although they are still just guesses as good as any.

A)
Not very confident about this one, but here goes. It's possible the money Greene had on hand was actually the "rest of the money" he initially was going to use to pay Mac for having switched Greene's forgery with the original painting. However, after being shown the "original" painting by Reeves (actually Reeves's forgery), he decides to use the money to buy her painting instead. Reeves actually says that Greene's offer "could have been higher" but she takes it anyway, because she knows she's selling Greene a forgery. TL;DR the money was originally for Mac, but Greene uses it to buy what he believes is the original painting from Reeves instead.

Greene was NOT planning on buying the painting from Reeves directly. He always planned to replace the original painting with his own forgery, which would end up being "stolen" for the Maestro's plot. Greene would walk away with the original painting.

What confuses me is, what the hell is Greene and Reeves's relationship. He mentions that he won't forget about the the "cut" Reeves will receive for helping him find the painting in the black market. However, if he already planned to have Mac steal the original painting for him, I don't know why he would need to recover it from the black market at all, or need her help. -shrugs-

B)
This one I'm confident about. Occam's Razor, the best explanation is the simplest one. Tommy yelling the painting isn't worth anything is just to show how ignorant and unappreciative he is towards the art world. His dialogue also suggests he isn't the most clever or intelligent person in general. He says similar things about how useless and stupid art is when he was in the actual process of stealing the painting in the storeroom. He was also stupid enough to both give away the fact he committed the theft in the restroom, and get caught by the security guard. Maestro really overestimated who he hired.

[Psyringe]

Vorpoler の投稿を引用：

I would like to help by hypothesizing possible explanations to the two things you weren't sure about. Although they are still just guesses as good as any.

Excellent observations, thanks!

I absolutely agree that that Greene's money was originally intended to be Mac's payment. That makes sense. So Greene's original plan was probably to:
1. Have Mac create a forged painting based on Sean's photo
2. Have Mac enter the gallery before it opens and switch the paintings (as you said)
3. Receive the real painting from Mac, and pay him.

What threw me off, is that I wasn't sure about step (2), since that is also never spelled out explicitly to have been the plan. I thought that the first switching of paintings might have just been a quick decision from Mac when he saw the opportunity. But I now realize that step (2) is a pretty safe assumption to make, because:

Greene definitely wanted to obtain the original. In theory he _could_ have planned to just sell the forgery while the original was gone (which he knew it would be). But then there wouldn't have been a reason to send Mac to the gallery. It would have been much safer to exchange the forgery and the money somewhere else, and Greene wouldn't even have needed to look at the original to verify the quality of the forgery, as he could have just asked Mac to give Sean's photo back.

In short: Having Mac and the forgery present at the gallery entails a risk of getting discovered, there are much safer places to meet. But it was a necessity if Greene's plan was indeed to have Mac switch the paintings, so that Greene would get the original. Greene wouldn't have taken that risk if it wasn't necessary, so I think it's safe to assume that step (2) is correct.

Vorpoler の投稿を引用：

Tommy yelling the painting isn't worth anything is just to show how ignorant and unappreciative he is towards the art world.

I agree that this is the most likely explanation. I'm not 100% satisfied with it because I'd expect even an idiot like Tommy to acknowledge the high monetary value of a painting from a famous artist. But both alternative hypotheses that I explored (either Tommy having noticed the switch in the bathroom, or Tommy actually being Reeves' forger) ended up having more problems than simply assuming that Tommy is enough of an idiot to call the painting "worth nothing" even when believing that it is the original.

[Bustin' Jiber]

Does Reeves ever admit she didn't stole the painting? When she talks on the phone with whoever that was? Because otherwise how were we suppose to assume that she didn't without proof? It would mean she had the real painting all along, and there was two fake ones in the hands of Mac and Tommy/Security at the end.

[taggedjc]

She specifically states that she never deals with the real thing.

[Ammabean]

Psyringe の投稿を引用：

I absolutely agree that that Greene's money was originally intended to be Mac's payment. That makes sense. So Greene's original plan was probably to:
1. Have Mac create a forged painting based on Sean's photo
2. Have Mac enter the gallery before it opens and switch the paintings (as you said)
3. Receive the real painting from Mac, and pay him.

What threw me off, is that I wasn't sure about step (2), since that is also never spelled out explicitly to have been the plan. I thought that the first switching of paintings might have just been a quick decision from Mac when he saw the opportunity. But I now realize that step (2) is a pretty safe assumption to make, because:

Greene definitely wanted to obtain the original. In theory he _could_ have planned to just sell the forgery while the original was gone (which he knew it would be). But then there wouldn't have been a reason to send Mac to the gallery. It would have been much safer to exchange the forgery and the money somewhere else, and Greene wouldn't even have needed to look at the original to verify the quality of the forgery, as he could have just asked Mac to give Sean's photo back.

In short: Having Mac and the forgery present at the gallery entails a risk of getting discovered, there are much safer places to meet. But it was a necessity if Greene's plan was indeed to have Mac switch the paintings, so that Greene would get the original. Greene wouldn't have taken that risk if it wasn't necessary, so I think it's safe to assume that step (2) is correct.

If you listen to the conversation between Greene and Mac, he does, in fact, state that the swap was the plan all along. Greene is talking to Reeves, who says she stole the painting because Maestro was going to have it stolen anyway. Greene believes her, even though she stated in her previous phone call to her forger that she never deals with the real thing. She knew she had a forgery and Greene believed her due to her position as Maestro's assistant. Mac calls Greene, who steps out of Reeves's office. I had to go back and forth, listening to both sides and transcribing, to fit all the pieces together. But Greene says the painting is fake. Mac is confused. He says of course it's fake, that was the plan all along. He then says he swapped his forgery with the one in the safe. Greene responds, "Well, it turns out that one's fake too." He thinks that because, again, he trusts Reeves, who is lying to him. Reeves was just making easy money scamming an art collector. Greene did plan, with Mac, to make a copy and trade out the copy for the real thing. He did renege on his deal with Mac.

Psyringe の投稿を引用：

Vorpoler の投稿を引用：

Tommy yelling the painting isn't worth anything is just to show how ignorant and unappreciative he is towards the art world.

I agree that this is the most likely explanation. I'm not 100% satisfied with it because I'd expect even an idiot like Tommy to acknowledge the high monetary value of a painting from a famous artist. But both alternative hypotheses that I explored (either Tommy having noticed the switch in the bathroom, or Tommy actually being Reeves' forger) ended up having more problems than simply assuming that Tommy is enough of an idiot to call the painting "worth nothing" even when believing that it is the original.

Tommy complains a lot. He can't be bothered to even remember the (simple) name of the art exhibit. He gets lost on the way there. He says the old man isn't paying him enough for all the trouble he's going through. He complains that the safe is hard to find and then suggests that he could have been paid to steal a nicer piece of art. He doesn't think it's weird AT ALL that the COMPLETELY RANDOM GUY in the bathroom ALSO has a copy of the exact same painting. He doesn't question it.He gives up incredibly easily when accused of theft. I think he overestimates his own skill (what kind of pro thief needs to be given the combo to a safe?) and thus feels he's being grossly underpaid as well as not at all appreciating the skill that went into the art he was paid to steal. He thinks the job is beneath him, the pay isn't enough, and he clearly doesn't appreciate art. He might understand that the painting has value but he's denigrating it so that he looks/feels less like a failure. If he doesn't care about the job, how can he be upset that he didn't succeed?

[The Cuz]

I dunno if I just took my time more than others in this thread, but I managed to get the answers to this case spot on first time after really taking my time to figure out where the THREE paintings went. See, some characters only figure out there's three paintings at the end...

First things first, figure out who Mac and Tommy work for, and in what order they take the paintings.

1) Mac
+ swaps the 'original' for a forgery commissioned by Greene
+ hides in the toilets and waits for more info

2) Tommy
+ works for the artist to steal back the painting
+ we see him enter and take the painting placed by Mac

So at THIS POINT we know that Mac took the painting.

But then we learn about Reeves:

- Reeves
+ talks to a forger
+ talks about making a deal for the forged painting
+ tells forger on the phone that she doesn't steal paintings
+ when talking to Greene, she avoids talking about HOW she took the painting, without giving Greene specific details
+ Greene thinks she took the painting before Mac
+ Greene notices her painting is fake
+ Greene realises - if Reeves took from the safe first, what did she leave behind?
+ Greene leaves the conversation and immediately phones Mac to tell him he swapped for a fake or whatever Reeves left behind in the safe

Reeves NEVER took any painting. In fact, her painting never left her office. Reeves doesn't steal. It's a forgery made to con Greene out of money.

The most important bits of info is that:
1) Greene THINKS REEVES TOOK THE PAINTING BEFORE MAC, and therefore left something fake behind
2) Greene notices Reeves painting is FAKE, and therefore doesn't know where the real one is
3) Greene (and then Mac) THINK there's only TWO paintings in play, both fake.

Greene phones Mac, tells him the painting Mac swapped for is a fake, but also tells him that Reeves painting is also fake (he explicitly says on the phone "they're both fake")

But Reeves never took any painting before Mac. She told the forger that much on the phone. Mac was actually the first to get to the safe. Which means the picture Mac took is the one he meant to steal all along...

See, in actuality, Mac DID take the real painting. Mac & Greene only THINK they took a fake because Reeves lies and says she got to the painting first. Reeves never took it. Mac has it all along.

Except, now thinking the painting is fake after being told so by Greene, Mac spots the same painting with Tommy, assumes that this new one MIGHT be the real one... swaps them. After all, he has a fake, so what's the harm? Sadly, Mac now has the FAKE, and Tommy, inadvertently, has the REAL one.

Then the security guard ends up with it at the end.

Here are two summaries - what Greene/Mac THINKS happens, and what actually happens.

Greene and Mac's Summary:
Fake #1: (Reeves) - Reeves took this painting before Mac from the safe. But Greene realises it's a forgery.
Fake #2: (Greene) - Given to Mac, and swapped for the real painting in the safe. But then Greene finds out Reeves got there before Mac, and assumes the painting Mac took must be fake also, a fake left by Reeves.
Real: Initially, Greene rightly assumes it's in the safe. He then learns that Reeves got to the safe first, and after realising the painting she took was fake, realises that the painting she left in the safe must be fake too - Mac has a fake. Greene now has no idea where the real painting is. But then Mac spots a painting in the possession of Tommy, and already knowing there's two fake paintings, assumes this might be the real one. Swaps them.

Actual Summary:
Fake #1: (Reeves) - This painting never leaves Reeves' office. A forgery. She never stole any painting.
Fake #2: (Greene) - Given to Mac, and swapped for the real one. Then taken by Tommy from the safe. Then swapped in the toilets (Mac assuming it's real as he's learned about the two others being fake).
Real: Mac swaps it with Greene's forgery. Swapped back with Tommy for Greene's forgery in the toilet/smoke alarm chaos.

[The Cuz]

Psyringe の投稿を引用：

The case _does_ make sense, but only if we assume two things that aren't spelled out anywhere.

1. Reeves never "stole" the real painting, in the sense that she never physically took it. She _does_ have an accomplice (the one she talks about in her call) who forged the painting, and that person obviously must have had a way to see the original. But we can assume that Reeves just made a photo of the original and sent that to her accomplice - just like Sean made a photo, sent it to Greene, and Greene sent it to Mac so that Mac could create his own forgery. Reeves' accomplice is never named and is not in the area (when she talks to him over the phone, no one in the gallery is answering to her).

2. Mac stole the real painting before the recording starts. He tells Greene that he swapped the paintings in the store room. This means that a) there must have been a time where the painting was already in the safe, but no one was in the store room, so Mac was able to sneak in (plausible), and b) Mac must have had a way to get into the safe. This is never explained, but several possibilities exist: He may be a skilled lockpick/safecracker in addition to being a forger, or Greene (who obviously has access to a lot of internal info from the gallery) knows the combo (which may not have changed for a while, Tommy calls it "the old combo") and told it to Mac, or Mac may have spied on the person who put the painting into the safe. We _can_ assume that one of these took place, otherwise Mac wouldn't have been able to get the real painting.

Both those things are spelled out extremely clearly.

If you spend time with Reeves at the start, you learn that she's the artists's assistant, that she's talking to a forger who produced a copy of the artist's work, that she never steals paintings, and that she's looking to make a deal. If she never steals, then she never took from the safe to begin with. And if she never took from the safe to begin with, then Mac took the real thing... (she's looking to scam someone out of money by pretending to have the real painting, something she'd easily be able to access. That someone happens to be Greene)

As for Mac, it's not really an assumption. We learn he has a painting in his possession in the toilet conversation with Tommy. On the phone with Greene he says he has the painting. We also hear Tommy say that the room with the safe looks like a mess (because someone got there first?...). Lastly, since Mac stays in the toilet for the opening 5 minutes or so, coupled with all this info, it's a very safe assumption that he already got to the safe before Tommy, and before the scene starts.

I didn't assume anything, and I got this case right first time. Spend a whole cycle with each character, make sure you listen in to both sides of each phonecall, and you'll never have to assume anything.

8. Mac presents his painting to Greene as the "real one". Greene is confused because he thought he just bought the real painting from Reeves. Actually though they both have forgeries.

Nope. Greene told Mac on the phone that BOTH paintings were forgeries, remember?

[TowerWizard]

The Cuz の投稿を引用：

Nope. Greene told Mac on the phone that BOTH paintings were forgeries, remember?

Then why did he buy the painting from Reeves, if he knew it was a fake? Also, how did he know that after just a few seconds? No, he must have believed Reeves painting to be the real thing, and thus tells Mac that both paintings in the storeroom are fakes.

The Cuz の投稿を引用：

We also hear Tommy say that the room with the safe looks like a mess (because someone got there first?...).

But the Maestro starts the scene in the storeroom and does not say anything about it being messy. If he hid the painting there in the first place, it must have been before Mac "messed it up", but then he really should have known that the painting was stolen from the safe right at the start at the scene, and he does not.

Here is my four main questions:

1. How did Greene know about Maestros plan prior to the showcasing, if the Art Director Sean did not?

2. How did Greene know where Maestro would place the painting?

3. Is it really plausable that Mac can steal the real painting from the safe, and then lock it, without either Maestro or Tommy noticing anythinw wrong with the safe?

4. If the Maestro did plan to show an empty frame, why did he show the painting to the Art Director Sean, or to Reeves? Did he realize they would be the sources of fakes?

[Dave Mongoose]

TowerWizard の投稿を引用：

Here is my four main questions:

1. How did Greene know about Maestros plan prior to the showcasing, if the Art Director Sean did not?

2. How did Greene know where Maestro would place the painting?

3. Is it really plausable that Mac can steal the real painting from the safe, and then lock it, without either Maestro or Tommy noticing anythinw wrong with the safe?

4. If the Maestro did plan to show an empty frame, why did he show the painting to the Art Director Sean, or to Reeves? Did he realize they would be the sources of fakes?

My take:

1) Greene was already in touch with Reeves - this was how she arranged the deal and how he found out about the Maestro's plan. She's the only one that the Maestro had told about the plan beforehand (other than Tommy).

2) Perhaps just from knowing the gallery very well - the director was willing to send him a photo of the painting in advance so he's probably an important patron and/or personal friend.

3) This one is harder to explain; Mac must have known the combination or been able to crack the safe without damaging it. I just have to assume that Maestro didn't bother checking the painting again after placing it, and that the mess in the storeroom wasn't caused by Mac so it didn't stand out. Tommy wouldn't have noticed anything wrong with the painting itself because he knows nothing about art and may not have even seen the original painting.

4) Presumably the Maestro had to show the director in order to organise the showcase in the first place (to prove there was actually something to show), and he trusts Reeves as his assistant so probably wouldn't think twice about showing her.

[Jp78]

Instead of assuming that Mac knew the combination to the safe, couldn't we assume that he had special powers and so he could have magically swapped the paintings?

(Yes, that's stupid... as is the rest of this case)

[sniperwolfcake]

It was confusing but after replaying everyone's timeline multiple times, the hints were there.

1. Reeves told Greene that she had the painting and gave it to him. This is a fake. Earlier on when she was alone in the room, she had a phone call with someone and told him “I never deal with the real ones”. This means that the one in the safe is still the real painting.

2. Mac told Greene that he stole the painting from the safe. Greene, thinking that Reeves gave him the original, told Mac that the one he stole was a fake. But we know that Reeves was lying to Greene so Mac had the real one.

3. In the toilet, Mac overheard Tommy talking to Maestro that he had the painting. Mac thinks Tommy had the real one and came up with a plan to get the painting from him. He made sure to say “here’s your painting back” to hint that he might have swapped it. Unfortunately, Mac just gave the real one to Tommy by doing so.

Extra note that might be confusing to some: When Greene told Mac that "both were forgeries", he was referring to the one Mac stole (which Greene thought was a fake) and the one Greene said he commissioned someone else to forge to replace the original with. Not the one Reeves gave him.

So ultimately Tommy had the real painting which security guy then took back

[Marlfox]

Reeves saying she never deals with the real thing is moot because she's a liar anyway. And the bathroom scene leaves more to be desired... specifically on the evidence that the paintings are swapped. Kinda hard to believe which is why I got the case wrong the first time. 2 men bump into one another in a very small bathroom and trade paintings. Also no one is talking about how there's 3 people with identical paintings walking around and only getting spotted at convenient times.

[River]

d4rth_revan の投稿を引用：

this is so strange for me, first how did mac know the combination of the lock? if he didn't and forced the lock open, why was is it still perfectly locked by the time tommy comes around?
second, how did greene conclude that mac's painting was a fake too? why was greene surprised that reeves' painting was fake? why did he buy it anyway?

greene is ♥♥♥♥♥♥ this case all up

This is what confused me as well.
Greene calls Mac and tells him that Reeves' painting is a fake
Mac then tells him he has the real painting, having swapped it for the forged one
then Greene says "that one's a fake too"

Mac: "So I've been waiting"
Greene: "I checked, it's a fake, I feel like an idiot for spending all that cash on a decent forgerer"
Mac: "What are you talking about, of course the painting you gave me is a fake. I swapped that one for the real one in the story room, wasn't that our plan?"
Greene: "Turns out, that one's fake too"

When Greene's says "I checked, It's a fake" what painting is he talking about?