Revolution Issues - Canada Edition

[pope henry viii]

This thread covers several issues that affect the Canada revolution. It is for the most recent patch, v. 100.15.30007.0, though some issues may have been around for longer.

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FUR TRADE
This card is available if in the revolutionary deck if and only if the player started as the French.

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WILDERNESS WARFARE
This card (and the standard French card) has been modified to also affect the 'Settler', presumably so that its benefits apply to the British Canadian 'Metis Pathfinder'.
The card affects Skirmishers, which are shippable for French Canada. British Canada instead can ship Rangers, but those do not benefit from this card. Not sure if this is an oversight or an intended disadvantage for the British.

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4 HANOVER ALLIES
The Age for which this is listed is inconsistent. If the player started as British, it is listed as an Age III shipment, but if the player started as French, it is listed as an Age IV shipment.

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(INFINITE) 4 WAR CANOES
This card should have a purple border, but has a white one instead.

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(INFINITE) CANADIAN LOYALISTS
The Age for which this is listed is inconsistent. If the player started as British, it is listed as an Age III shipment, but if the player started as French, it is listed as an Age IV shipment.

This card provides Guard Dragoons, but it provides them as a distinct/separate unit to the standard trainable Dragoon, so those will remain at Veteran level until upgraded in the usual way. This means that using 'select all' on Dragoons shipped using this card doesn't select trained Dragoons, and vice versa. Also, the order in which their attack multipliers are listed is inconsistent.

This card also appears to sometimes result in trainable Dragoons being named 'Veteran Dragoon' even when they are upgraded to Guard level - possibly this happens when the upgrade is researched prior to sending the card, or may be affected by loading the game.

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FENCIBLES
The Age for which this is listed is inconsistent. If the player started as British, it is listed as an Age IV shipment, but if the player started as French, it is listed as an Age II shipment.

The French get two copies of this card in the deck. Each can be sent independently and the effects (reduced cost, increased range, increased attack, increased hitpoints) stack.

Also, the card activates the 'Veteran Muskteers' and 'Redcoats' techs for both the British and the French, even though the French should only get standard 'Guard Musketeers'.

[Laughing Dog]

Regarding Fencibles: In the previous version, both French Canada and British Canada had the Redcoats tech researched. I believe that this is intentional, so as to create a parity between the two. I could be wrong however.

[pope henry viii]

I do wonder about that. I have erred on the side of including things that seem a bit odd since the remedy for false positives (dismiss them) is better than the remedy for false negatives (leave errors/bugs in the game).

[Cronkonium]

I think the purpose of the differences between Ages IV & III are that it would be too strong for one to get that shipment if they revolted an age earlier (age III). Having Fencibles as Britons to boost them to Red Coats makes them too good as a revolted Age III probably. I would have thought Brits are good as Canada, but it's actually Fencibles being Age IV for them that slows them too much.

Imagine musketeers + an increased ville number as Brits with 23 damage a piece. The villes probably with 65% + 35% + maybe another 35% or 15% from natives if it worked, but even without that's 300 H.P. & 23 attack Pathfinders to kills skirms & EVEN ARTILLERY takes x 2 damage from them (though 50% reduction) & then Red Coat Musketeers to massacre cavalry in maybe mid Fortress. For C.D.B.s into Voyageurs you are going to have far fewer of them for only 5 more damage per shot and 30 extra H.P. (I guess 60 after upgrades). So staying home with a few villes and finishing any leftover manour houses to make more Pathfinders as Brits or send more shipments of them & keep putting the pressure on with full muskets + a few siege & high damage villes early in mid game would be too strong.

Villes at 23 damage x 2 versus siege = 46 then divide by 3/4s is about 12 damage a shot, for C.D.B.s that's 28 x 2 = 56 divided by 3/4s is 14 so 2 more for a unit that is 20 food more expensive & trains more slowly. When it comes to the aggression Brits could put on if these cards were put into earlier ages, they would be a boom quickly then massacre with Ville-Armies (WITH a bit of Red Coat/Artillery Support.

[pope henry viii]

Originally posted by Cronkonium:

I think the purpose of the differences between Ages IV & III are that it would be too strong for one to get that shipment if they revolted an age earlier (age III). Having Fencibles as Britons to boost them to Red Coats makes them too good as a revolted Age III probably. I would have thought Brits are good as Canada, but it's actually Fencibles being Age IV for them that slows them too much.

It seems like there's been a miscommunication here. I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

The revolution is only available in Age IV regardless of starting civ.

My comments about Age relate to how the revolutionary deck is dispalyed. All of its cards are available upon revolting, because the revolution is an extension of Age IV, but the deck is still divided into rows labelled based on Age: I, II, III and IV.
There are inconsistencies between France and Britain's versions of what should be the same deck, and this is what I have reported as a bug. This is significant because it can result in overflow of cards if too many are listed under certain ages, leading to cards being in the deck but unable to be used, or to inaccurate information being displayed. It's also significant for other revolutions, for civs like Spain and Germany which can get bonuses with shipments based on the Age to which the card belongs.

The point about Fencibles being Redcoats for the French is just to do with the difference between standard Guard Musketeers (which I would expect the French to get) versus the British Royal Guard upgrade being applied to French units. French Canadian Fencibles (ignoring the effect of the duplicate card) get an extra 15% attack and 5% damage compared to if they got the Guard instead of Redcoat upgrade.

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I have thought a bit more about whether it is likely to be deliberate that the French get Redcoats instead of the normal Guard upgrade with Fencibles. I have some relevant numbers.

Before sending Fencibles (once), a fully carded and upgraded French Guard Musketeer has:
With no promotions from French Royal Army:
263HP, 41 ranged attack, 26 hand attack, 36 siege attack
Promoted to gold:
329HP, 51 ranged attack, 32 hand attack, 45 siege attack

With Fencibles and the upgrade to Redcoats thereby provided, they have:
No promotions:
285HP, 47 ranged attack, 29 hand attack, 41 siege attack
Gold:
357HP, 58 ranged attack, 36 hand attack, 51 siege attack

Fencibles adds 10% HP and attack, so presumably with it but without Redcoats, the French would have something like:
No promotions:
278HP (rounded up from 277.5), 44 ranged attack (rounded up from 43.7), 27 hand attack (rounded down from 27.3), 38 siege attack
Gold (125% of non-promoted stats, rounded):
347HP, 55 ranged attack, 34 hand attack, 48 siege attack

Compare this to fully carded and upgraded British Fencibles (including 'Thin Red Line' which may be questionable - without it the HP should be 30 points lower):
338HP, 50 ranged attack, 31 hand attack, 44 siege attack

To me it's not clear that the British Fencibles would be so much stronger that the French ones would be underpowered without also getting Redcoats. If anything I think it makes the French substantially stronger than the British in terms of units, since where there is disparity in respect of other units associated with the Canada revolution option, it's almost all in the French's favour, given their access to stronger Metis villager variant, extra boosts for natives in their pre-revolution deck, and universally applicable ranged infantry boosts.

It also seems strange to me that they would decide to do this but not to do something similar with other revolutions that have a modified unit which is Royal Guard for a civ that has access to the revolution, e.g., Independence Dragoons (Brazil), Independence Guard (Gran Colombia), Wallachian Horse Archer (Romania).