Landwehr seem like a missed opportunity

[Der Kaiser]

For some reason they act as a very weak skirmisher unit while it would be a lot better if they were a musketeer type unit which was missing from the german unit roster though now they can get some through natives they should still be a musketeer unit

[Age of Nicius]

landswehr has advantages over skirms on mid - late where you run out of mines and have to switch to estates,
there u still mass very strong "crossbow / skirmisher" and with counter infantry rifling they still have 2x vs heavy infantry as bonus. That is by far not weak at all...

Not having a musketeer unit is germanys distinct weakness!
Every nation has one it would make them op otherwhise lol

[Der Kaiser]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Just go for House of Hanover, in the new Prince Electors card options, and you will always have Black Brunswickers, which are excellent Musketeers, and you can train 30 of them, and even send the Infinite 14 Hanover Allies card twice on top, for 58 super Musks.

I do, however, agree that the Landwehr should have been a Musketeer type unit.

i know as i mentioned they get musketeers through natives it would be nice to not be limited though to only 30 and then of course infinite card but that takes time to come in

[Der Kaiser]

Originally posted by Nicius:

landswehr has advantages over skirms on mid - late where you run out of mines and have to switch to estates,
there u still mass very strong "crossbow / skirmisher" and with counter infantry rifling they still have 2x vs heavy infantry as bonus. That is by far not weak at all...

Not having a musketeer unit is germanys distinct weakness!
Every nation has one it would make them op otherwhise lol

for treaty games worrying about mines is not a thing only in regular games i guess they are ok. Germany also wouldnt be op with musketeers as they now kind of have them but your limited plus skirms are way better than Landwehr

[Opdepov]

You can also get giant grenadiers in the mercenary camps which are basically super musketeers.

[Catalytic]

I tried out the Landwehr in a game last night. I wasn't terribly impressed. It's a minor upgrade of the crossbow that comes in after you're already transitioning to using the superior Needle Gunner as your skirmisher. Once you have your economy functioning properly in late Age 3/early Age 4, I never really find that I'd rather spend wood on these instead of on buildings or tech upgrades. The tech upgrades are so powerful, it seems like a poor trade-off to spend it on a second rate skirm.

I do agree with Nicius. The German civ's weaknesses include lacking a musketeer and I don't think the Landwehr should be converted into that. As jonoliveira points out, you can already use a card to get the black brunswickers which are musketeers. I'd actually like to see a more stringent limit than 30 for these units in order to preserve that weakness. And as opdepov points out, there is a card to give permanent access to giant grenadiers from mercenary camps - and you can make 4 camps, rather than being constrained by the 1 tavern. There are really powerful ways to close that weakness with just 1 Age 3 card.

The landwehr seems like an idea that just didn't really have a role where it was needed. Perhaps just a flat replacement of the crossbow with the landwehr in the future might be appropriate. Just let this be a unique German unit. Stronger archaic skirm to complement a strong late game skirm. Build on the civ's strength without removing its weaknesses? Right now, I just don't think the Landwehr is worth the card, especially in Age 3 when I already have quite a few high priority cards to send as I boom.

[Opdepov]

The most important thing about the card is probably not how good it is. Its more about letting people play Prussians without actually adding Prussians. Combined with a Hanover alliance and Giant Grenadiers from the camps, and the Dragoon replacement. You can now actually play a Prussian unit roster while playing the Germans. The old Germans barely had any Prussia in them. All it really lacks now is the flag, perhaps they can add that effect to the Landwehr card later?

Not every card is competitive, and I think this one is more for the people who want to express something.

[Herr Kendy]

Originally posted by Opdepov:

The most important thing about the card is probably not how good it is. Its more about letting people play Prussians without actually adding Prussians. Combined with a Hanover alliance and Giant Grenadiers from the camps, and the Dragoon replacement. You can now actually play a Prussian unit roster while playing the Germans. The old Germans barely had any Prussia in them. All it really lacks now is the flag, perhaps they can add that effect to the Landwehr card later?

Not every card is competitive, and I think this one is more for the people who want to express something.

What do you mean with Hannover alliance? Historically or..? And the Landwehr were units troughout Germany and actually not exclusive to Prussia

[pope henry viii]

Originally posted by Herr Kendy:

What do you mean with Hannover alliance? Historically or..? And the Landwehr were units troughout Germany and actually not exclusive to Prussia

I assume he is talking about the Totenkopf Hussars.

[Opdepov]

Originally posted by Herr Kendy:

What do you mean with Hannover alliance? Historically or..? And the Landwehr were units troughout Germany and actually not exclusive to Prussia

The House of Hanover units might as well have been House of Hohenzollern units really. It mightve even fit better.

And yes, Landwehr is an universal German term. But the origin seems to have been Prussian. The models seems to have been modelled after Prussian soldiers at least. And there are multiple special units that were used by multiple factions, just look at the Uhlan.

Landwehr, Totenkopf Hussar, Giant Grenadiers. It seems like the core of a Prussian faction to me. Any fan design of a Prussian faction has these units present.

[Quirriff]

Weak skirmisher? No no no, it's more of a hybrid between state militia and musketeer (complete with range resistance).. The only thing that crossbowmen can do better is dispatch dragoons but surely you've got skirmishers for that..

Counter infantry rifling makes them better than skirmishers at taking out heavy infantry. Also snaplock and paper cartridge...

[Maxillian]

I think that to a certain point that the Landwehr, at least on paper is to be combined with mercenary units as they don't cost coin.

True wood is important for building and tech, so own could argue that wood cost could be reduced while food cost should be increased.

[Scud]

I think their feet Germany as one of most technogically developed army in the late XIX century. Why would you use musket to deal with cavalry when the first modern rifles let you deal with them with ease from range? Obviously, the bayonet makes a comeback in WWI because the trench extended use.

[armbarchris]

I'm personally annoyed we don't have any units with Pickelhaube yet.