Germany faction rework (more historical accuracy)

[Herr Kendy]

I think it is time for the devs to fully rework Germany. They already did a good job by replacing the horrible "German flag" from the old game, but I think they should fully commit to the HRE theme. This should include:

-Replacing Frederik the Great by one of the Emperors, e.g. Maria Theresia, Joseph II. Franz I.
-Berlin is also an odd choice for a home city, when you consider this is supposed to be the HRE
-Maybe more new fitting units for the HRE or at least a rework?

What do you think?

[Kaiser Wilhelm]

It's not supposed to be the HRE, it's mainly Prussia, but since there were many German states at the time, they simplified it and since Prussia DID unify Germany, there is nothing wrong with how it is. There are all sorts of minor things with pretty much every civ, like the Swedish having torps, while they were a LOT more common in Norway than they ever were in Sweden.

[Jonasnee]

Originally posted by Kaiser Wilhelm:

It's not supposed to be the HRE, it's mainly Prussia, but since there were many German states at the time, they simplified it and since Prussia DID unify Germany, there is nothing wrong with how it is. There are all sorts of minor things with pretty much every civ, like the Swedish having torps, while they were a LOT more common in Norway than they ever were in Sweden.

no it is mainly the soutern german catholic league, all the cards and units strongly suggest that.

[Opdepov]

Originally posted by Kaiser Wilhelm:

It's not supposed to be the HRE, it's mainly Prussia.

Prussia without Musketeers, Grenadiers and heavy cavalry lol. Not a single Prussian unique unit and not a single reference to Prussia on the cards.
It's a HRE themed faction that had Frederick and Berlin slapped onto it so they didnt have to make a Prussian civ more likely.

If Frederick and Berlin get replaced, and the RG needlegunner renamed youre left with an Austrian/HRE faction. Frederick and Berlin could then be reused in an actual Prussian faction.

It's more likely they'll add some musk cards and name some new cards after Prussian stuff when the Germans get a rework though. Unfortunately.

[Herr Kendy]

Originally posted by Kaiser Wilhelm:

It's not supposed to be the HRE, it's mainly Prussia, but since there were many German states at the time, they simplified it and since Prussia DID unify Germany, there is nothing wrong with how it is. There are all sorts of minor things with pretty much every civ, like the Swedish having torps, while they were a LOT more common in Norway than they ever were in Sweden.

It is not supposed to be Prussia. First of all this faction flys the HRE flag, which is historically correct in comparison to the old game and when you actually take a look at the units and cards the faction is not very Prussian at all. This is also good, because Prussia is not Germany. It is just one of its many states and there is so much more to Germany than that Prussia. A sad and wrong concept many people think is right and that I, as a German myself, can´t stand.

[Herr Kendy]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by Herr Kendy:

It is not supposed to be Prussia. First of all this faction flys the HRE flag, which is historically correct in comparison to the old game and when you actually take a look at the units and cards the faction is not very Prussian at all. This is also good, because Prussia is not Germany. It is just one of its many states and there is so much more to Germany than that Prussia. A sad and wrong concept many people think is right and that I, as a German myself, can´t stand.

Since this is Age of EMPIRES, and Prussia was the most imperialistic of the German states, it is fitting they were selected to represent the later German culture, in the game.

However, it is true that the current Germans civ, is just the Habsburg Austrians, but with Freddie, Berlin and Needle Gunners added in for spice.

It already is the Austrians, and nothing else, if we are being honest.

I agree that it is fitting that they represent Germany in the imperial age let´s say, not in the industrial one or not that much. But I would not say it is an Austrian faction and I wonder what makes you think that? The units used in the Game like Landsknechte or Doppelsöldner where very famous German mercenaries in the whole HRE. Same goes with the Black Riders and the Jägers are supposed to be Hessian. Uhlans were also commonly used in many states. And last but not least, where are Austrian cards? I don´t see many cards fitting the Austrian doctrin of expanding trough diplomacy or representing its multhiethnic empire.

[Herr Kendy]

Fair points and I see what you mean, but:

-Bürgermeister is just the German word for town major, so nothing specificly Austrian
-Treaty of Westphalia was important for the whole empire, since it ended the 30 years war, but indeed Tilly was an Austrian commander
-You actually have guaranteed access to them through cards

If this is really meant to be Austria, then this is poorly done in my eyes and I would also not make a big distinction between Austrians and Germans, because Austria is a German state too (especially during the time Aoe3 takes place).

[Opdepov]

Originally posted by Herr Kendy:

The units used in the Game like Landsknechte or Doppelsöldner where very famous German mercenaries in the whole HRE. empire.

The HRE was led by the Austrian Habsburg in practically the entire game period. The Landsknecht mercenaries were even originally founded by the archduke of Austria Maximilian I.

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

In fact, there is not ONE card I can think of, that references any other German state.

Palatine settlements, but to be fair I think that's the only one?

[Rhalius]

I'd rather see them change Russia to the Kyivan rus, with Kyiv as the new capital city and a kyiv flag used. Current flag is too modern either way.

As it is I only play against russia anymore, not as them. When I picked random and got them, I rebelled to Finland.

[Herr Kendy]

Originally posted by Rhalius:

I'd rather see them change Russia to the Kyivan rus, with Kyiv as the new capital city and a kyiv flag used. Current flag is too modern either way.

As it is I only play against russia anymore, not as them. When I picked random and got them, I rebelled to Finland.

Hm I wonder how that makes sense though, considering the game takes place during let´s say 1530-1864 and the Kyivan Rus were not around for a long time then. I think Russia should be Russia.

[Opdepov]

I think hes refering to current events mate. Not stuff that would make actual sense ingame.

[Herr Kendy]

Originally posted by Opdepov:

I think hes refering to current events mate. Not stuff that would make actual sense ingame.

Oh right I see: in that case no. Big no. Would be such a stupid thing to do.

[The Circle]

Originally posted by Herr Kendy:

I think it is time for the devs to fully rework Germany. They already did a good job by replacing the horrible "German flag" from the old game, but I think they should fully commit to the HRE theme. This should include:

-Replacing Frederik the Great by one of the Emperors, e.g. Maria Theresia, Joseph II. Franz I.
-Berlin is also an odd choice for a home city, when you consider this is supposed to be the HRE
-Maybe more new fitting units for the HRE or at least a rework?

What do you think?

Dude Berlin is main city of germany . so ofc should be Berlin

[Barcas]

Berlin is the Capital city of todays Germany. Vienna would be much more fitting as Capital for the HRE, so he has a point.

[/quote]

Dude Berlin is main city of germany . so ofc should be Berlin [/quote]

[Asterius]

Better renamed to HRE. Change Berlin to Vienna or Prague.

[Barcas]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by dynamic_dynamite:

Better renamed to HRE. Change Berlin to Vienna or Prague.

Devs have said thius will never happen, as they want the Germans to NOT be specific, but an umbrella of all the German states in the period, even though it is mostly Austria.

The civ is designed as an umbrella on purpose, and the devs want to keep that design, no matter who it bothers.
If they changed it, people would ask for a Prussians civ, because "the Germans civ no longer thematically covers them", but the devs have said this will never happen, and that they do not, at all, want to split Germans in 2 or more civs.

This is why you will always have Friedrich and Berlin, on a civ that is clearly Habsburg Austria.

care to share the link?. i would like to read the whole interview.