Struggling with moving pups to a new den

[Wrenny]

I really need to know if I'm the only one who gets SO annoyed when its time to move dens because of fleas or being 15 pounds. NEVER does the mate help, pick up a pup, nothing. I just have to sit there barking every other second to keep their attention or they just stop following and go run off into the wilderness. Its absolutely AGGRAVATING because I have to sit there constantly luring them over and over and over again by barking just to get one hex over into the closest den possible. This is genuinely the only thing I truly hate about this game because every time the process is a literal nightmare that makes me want to close the game for the day. I cant even try picking one pup up and moving them because they immediately run back to the others.

Am I just doing something wrong or have awful luck with these AI? Like I'm not running far from the pups or moving in a confusing way for them to track. I've genuinely had pups turn around and walk away when I'm bee lining straight towards the new home and I have to go chase them, only for the rest of the pack to move with me so I lost all that progress I just made with them. Is there some secret trick, some command/process that works better? Its sad because I have to stick to like 2-3 den locations on the entire map JUST to make sure there's another den super close so I don't have to deal with 30 minutes of literal torture but that's such repetitive game play when I'm trying to do multiple different saves. I'd love some insight or tips, or even just information if its gonna be tweaked on.

[crys]

I whine for the pups then just start walking away and they follow. If you sit or stand in one place then the pups will wander off. Definitely walk don't run when you need to pups to follow, they can't keep up with your run. Also if you want to run back for 1 pup send the others into a grass patch first so they don't follow you.

[Depressed_Cat]

It sounds like you pick a lot of bold, loner, and lazy mates to me. I'm not an expert on mate personalities though, so it could be that they're super energetic as well. Either way, mate personalities are inherited by pups, your personality too (so I am curious to know what you set your wolf personality to) and the pups can be very difficult, especially with a difficult mate.

Usually my mates are in the middle of cautious and bold, a little on the bold side, very social, and more on the energetic side. They help with pups a lot, when moving dens they're almost always carrying a pup and when babysitting they keep the pups near the den.

But it also sounds like alongside the mate and pups problem, your pack affinity is very low. It's important to try to have it at maximum as much as you can. You can't have it there all the time but trying for all the time is the way to go, in my experience. Pack affinity being higher will have your mate be more helpful and social with you, and the pups following you more closely and staying near the den/loafing site when you have one.

Another thing I would like to add is that if pups get tired or sick they run alongside you slower or stop/trip way more often. You should be ***trotting*** to the next den, NOT running, or walking. Running is too fast for them, walking is too slow. Let the pups rest, maybe hunt or sleep yourself until they're awake enough, and if you have a sick pup carry them. One pup is easy because then you can just carry them and run to the next site, so perhaps also try for a black and lower diversity mate if you think that would be better for you.

I know this is a lot so I'll just list it right here if you don't wanna read all that.
- Take mate trials seriously and look for social and hardworking wolves. If they don't help you kill that elk, find another wolf.
- Try to keep pack affinity as close to 100% as you can. (Socialize with your pups.)
- Trot to the next den, do not walk or run!
- If the pups are tired they will slow down. Let them rest by woofing them into a bush and hunting, or sleeping yourself.
- If you have a sick pup, carry them for the entire trip. (If you have multiple sick pups, I wouldn't recommend moving dens at all until there's just one.)
- Try for black-coated and low-diversity mates if you think having just one or two pups will make it easier and more enjoyable for you.
- Get a good den that has a lot of dens nearby to make moving sites easier, you're already doing this so that's good!
- Most importantly, be patient. Moving dens can be a multi-day process, don't rush it. You can always woof the pups into a bush if you need to hunt or mark territory.

I really hope this helps! Let me know if you have other questions, I may be able to help. I've even done a few runs where I was a single parent and didn't stay at any den at all!

[crys]

[quote=Depressed_Cat;4844274499277243628
Another thing I would like to add is that if pups get tired or sick they run alongside you slower or stop/trip way more often. You should be ***trotting*** to the next den, NOT running, or walking. Running is too fast for them, walking is too slow. Let the pups rest, maybe hunt or sleep yourself until they're awake enough, and if you have a sick pup carry them. One pup is easy because then you can just carry them and run to the next site, so perhaps also try for a black and lower diversity mate if you think that would be better for you.
[/quote]

Trotting in this game is a run you will quickly leave the pups behind. The walk is basically a trot already.

[Depressed_Cat]

crys の投稿を引用：

Trotting in this game is a run you will quickly leave the pups behind. The walk is basically a trot already.

If someone finds that their trotting speed is leaving behind the pups, then I suppose walking is a good second option, but in my personal experience the trotting speed is perfect for when your pups are well-rested, because their run is about the same speed.
Your pups don't need to be glued to your side. They can be a few yards behind and it's still safe. As long as they can hear your woofing it should be fine.
It's up to personal play-style, though. I'm just saying what's worked best for me. :)

(Also just adding, when I say trotting I mean the setting in between the walk and the run. I'm not talking about sprinting or stalking.)

[crys]

Depressed_Cat の投稿を引用：

crys の投稿を引用：

Trotting in this game is a run you will quickly leave the pups behind. The walk is basically a trot already.

If someone finds that their trotting speed is leaving behind the pups, then I suppose walking is a good second option, but in my personal experience the trotting speed is perfect for when your pups are well-rested, because their run is about the same speed.
Your pups don't need to be glued to your side. They can be a few yards behind and it's still safe. As long as they can hear your woofing it should be fine.
It's up to personal play-style, though. I'm just saying what's worked best for me. :)

(Also just adding, when I say trotting I mean the setting in between the walk and the run. I'm not talking about sprinting or stalking.)

Lol, I forgot there was a slower walk. I use the trot as my walk! The really slow walk is harder to find though, I just use my shift key to change speeds. :D

[Wrenny]

Thank you cuz these comments do help, I think it might be that I picked horribly with the mate because she doesn't do anything other than hunting with me, but I gotta do like 70% of the work. She occasionally feeds them, wont go out on her own to mark territory, won't pick them up if they wander, and then steals the food i give the pups so I gotta guard it with my body or make sure shes at 125% or she literally eats their small carcasses as they are eating too.

Unfortunately, I was trotting/walking during the move. I never tapped shift and they just would pause a lot, even if sleep was at 50%-60%. they'd start playing with each other so I'd have to bring them out of the animation to get back on the move. The pack affinity also wasn't the problem since I'm always so anxious about that, I kept it at 70% or more. I also keep the fun parent ability to make that easier.

If you don't mind answering a couple questions (once again tysm for the help, rlly any and all tips are being consumed desperately) What exactly do you look for when you're selecting the mate? Because she did help with the elks, and I hunted 2 with her just to make sure she did try. During the trial she did fine and looked great, but the moment we had pups, she only attacks them once I've gotten the elk down to lower than half its health. It went from immediately attacking the elk to waiting me out to get it down. If i'm low on health, she wont attack at all and I end up having to give up the hunt, even if its at like 30% health.

Is there something else to look for while searching for mates? Like is their care of the pups dependent on the social trait? I'd assume so, but I feel like that's hard to try and gather at the beginning since all there is to do is emote. Personally I never noticed a difference between the quantity of emoting between the dispersal wolves so if that is the case then I might be screwed here in terms of recognizing better wolves lol.

Even if you don't respond, thank you both again for the replies. Hopefully I can get a better handle on finding a mate!

Depressed_Cat の投稿を引用：

I know this is a lot so I'll just list it right here if you don't wanna read all that.
- Take mate trials seriously and look for social and hardworking wolves. If they don't help you kill that elk, find another wolf.
- Try to keep pack affinity as close to 100% as you can. (Socialize with your pups.)
- Trot to the next den, do not walk or run!
- If the pups are tired they will slow down. Let them rest by woofing them into a bush and hunting, or sleeping yourself.
- If you have a sick pup, carry them for the entire trip. (If you have multiple sick pups, I wouldn't recommend moving dens at all until there's just one.)
- Try for black-coated and low-diversity mates if you think having just one or two pups will make it easier and more enjoyable for you.
- Get a good den that has a lot of dens nearby to make moving sites easier, you're already doing this so that's good!
- Most importantly, be patient. Moving dens can be a multi-day process, don't rush it. You can always woof the pups into a bush if you need to hunt or mark territory.

[crys]

It it weird that the pups wouldn't follow you unless the mate had regurgitated, I hate when they do that when I'm trying to move dens. It could be a bug, but it could also be that you pausing confused them. I don't pause, I just keep going. Once your're far enough away from them they'll get moving.

Care of the pups is linked to the energetic trait, lazy mates will let pups wander away and won't feed them very often.
It seems that sometimes mates bug out once you accept them or you have pups so if there's been a big shift in their personality/behaviors you'll need to send a bug report.

I try to avoid lazy and cautious mates, if they're laying down a lot during courtship they're probably lazy, mates that run around you a lot and hunt hares a lot during the courtship phase are typically energetic. Bold mates help with the hunt more, yours may have been on the avg side so they will display both bold and cautious traits at any given time. It's also possible that they're lazy and that's why they don't want to help you hunt. If the prey is too strong lazy mates are less likely to help out.

[Depressed_Cat]

Wrenny の投稿を引用：

Thank you cuz these comments do help, I think it might be that I picked horribly with the mate because she doesn't do anything other than hunting with me, but I gotta do like 70% of the work. She occasionally feeds them, wont go out on her own to mark territory, won't pick them up if they wander, and then steals the food i give the pups so I gotta guard it with my body or make sure shes at 125% or she literally eats their small carcasses as they are eating too.

Unfortunately, I was trotting/walking during the move. I never tapped shift and they just would pause a lot, even if sleep was at 50%-60%. they'd start playing with each other so I'd have to bring them out of the animation to get back on the move. The pack affinity also wasn't the problem since I'm always so anxious about that, I kept it at 70% or more. I also keep the fun parent ability to make that easier.

If you don't mind answering a couple questions (once again tysm for the help, rlly any and all tips are being consumed desperately) What exactly do you look for when you're selecting the mate? Because she did help with the elks, and I hunted 2 with her just to make sure she did try. During the trial she did fine and looked great, but the moment we had pups, she only attacks them once I've gotten the elk down to lower than half its health. It went from immediately attacking the elk to waiting me out to get it down. If i'm low on health, she wont attack at all and I end up having to give up the hunt, even if its at like 30% health.

Is there something else to look for while searching for mates? Like is their care of the pups dependent on the social trait? I'd assume so, but I feel like that's hard to try and gather at the beginning since all there is to do is emote. Personally I never noticed a difference between the quantity of emoting between the dispersal wolves so if that is the case then I might be screwed here in terms of recognizing better wolves lol.

Even if you don't respond, thank you both again for the replies. Hopefully I can get a better handle on finding a mate!

A lot of mates do that, it's really annoying. No-Longer-Competent Syndrome... Sometimes you can't really catch it, it's a luck thing. But what makes it easier is if their heart-meter when courting them is easier or harder to fill. I think lazy mates are much easier to impress and more useful mates take more time to impress.

Also, the amount they help with hunting is a good indicator. If you get to an elk herd and they immediately start going around biting elk, then are very helpful in the hunt, it bodes well for you and your pups. However, if they don't even try to select an elk and only get in a few bites, they're probably a little lazy. I would kind of sit back and observe them hunt for a little bit before joining in to see how much they actually work in the hunt.

I do think it's a bit of an issue that seemingly energetic, social, bold mates become lazy and incompetent the moment you have pups. Something should be tweaked there.

But hey! You can always have them fight a bison and then find a new mate. :)

Also there are some guides and discussions about finding better mates easier, I would suggest looking for those.

Edit-- I forgot to add this, but they start slowing down at 60%, around there. I suggest trying to get them to 100% before trotting for a bit. If you're close to the den and the pups are tired, just walk the rest of the way.

[Wrenny]

This literally helps me so much because yeah she lays down EVERY time we pause and has never tried hunting a rabbit... might've accidentally married a freeloader lmao.

Although I wasn't saying that they didn't follow unless she regurgitated. Srry if my wording was weird, I meant that she rarely regurgitated for them just in general over time, and on the times that I brought the pups a calf or a hare, she'd come over and eat it with them so it disappeared before the pups were full and I'd have to either regurgitate or go hunt again for them. I just ended up puppy guarding the carcass/meat chunk (literally) until they had their fill, then I'd move away and shed come over to steal the rest of the food.

But yeah the explanation on how the personality shows is so vry helpful, tysm to the both of you <333
Im glad to know the now-incompetent-syndrome is not just a me thing here because I was so ready to just let her get killed by a cougar we encountered.. Both the advice on the hunting and the personalities were things I hadn't thought of before, especially the heart meter since I did notice some immediately start with an over half filled heart. I'm about to try using another wolf of mine, and if it goes well, then I have you two to thank!

crys の投稿を引用：

It it weird that the pups wouldn't follow you unless the mate had regurgitated, I hate when they do that when I'm trying to move dens. It could be a bug, but it could also be that you pausing confused them. I don't pause, I just keep going. Once your're far enough away from them they'll get moving.
/quote]

[Depressed_Cat]

Glad to know we could help you! I will add... even the best mates steal pup food. They REAAAALLY need to fix this. I think all AI sees a dead baby elk and goes, "Oh, for me???" So I have to sit right next to it while the pups eat

[crys]

Sorry to confuse you, I just meant they should have definitely followed you unless she had regurgitated for them. Otherwise if you've walked off and left them behind, affinity is high and sleep is good and they're still not following you then it's definitely a bug.

Hopefully your next mate is better though!!

[Wrenny]

Thank you for the advice, after having to chase away 2 freeloaders who were desperately trying to get me to do the work, I found a wolf who had low heart for me at the start, barely laid down, howled a lot, and went after random rabbits. So far he has been the most useful mate I've seen, and thats before the pups. So the advice was 100% correct from both of u! Huzzah!

the mistake? I didnt listen to you guys when it came to the pups and have now just royally ♥♥♥♥♥♥ myself by NOW HAVING SEVEN OF THEM TO DEAL WITH LMAO
I am my own demise sometimes.

[crys]

Wrenny の投稿を引用：

Thank you for the advice, after having to chase away 2 freeloaders who were desperately trying to get me to do the work, I found a wolf who had low heart for me at the start, barely laid down, howled a lot, and went after random rabbits. So far he has been the most useful mate I've seen, and thats before the pups. So the advice was 100% correct from both of u! Huzzah!

the mistake? I didnt listen to you guys when it came to the pups and have now just royally ♥♥♥♥♥♥ myself by NOW HAVING SEVEN OF THEM TO DEAL WITH LMAO
I am my own demise sometimes.

LOL, at least you have a good mate to help you. :D

[littlepaws]

Try getting higher diversity mates, an energetic mate will willingly recover lost pups or keep them close to their parents and the den.

[littlepaws]

Nvm, diversity is the coat genetics. You can get even a 1 star mate with a good personality.