Why does the whole pack die when disbanding?

[Depressed_Cat]

I'm curious to know, what's the reason? Whenever a pack disbands, every wolf dies other than a few who disperse. Why? What happens that kills them all? I feel like a bunch of fully grown wolves wouldn't just die because they don't have a pack leader, so I'm wondering if there's another reason behind this.

I'm thinking maybe it's to stop there from being too many dispersals, but why not depart the wolves instead of killing them all?

[KrazyPawz]

They could have been hunting and bit off more than they could chew.

[topp]

Keep in mind that if a pack disbands, all the pups will automatically die since they haven't yet learned to take care of themselves. This means that if a pack has a lot of pups, a lot of the pack will die when disbanding.
I think this used to be the same for Yearlings, but now that yearlings can disperse, I'm not sure if they all still die when the pack disbands.

[Misto Taco Laddy!]

They don't. At least not usually. The adults disperse and it LOOKS like the died

[Depressed_Cat]

Originally posted by topp:

Keep in mind that if a pack disbands, all the pups will automatically die since they haven't yet learned to take care of themselves. This means that if a pack has a lot of pups, a lot of the pack will die when disbanding.
I think this used to be the same for Yearlings, but now that yearlings can disperse, I'm not sure if they all still die when the pack disbands.

I know the pups would die, but for me everyone in the pack other than three wolves die, even subordinates.

Originally posted by Misto Taco Laddy!:

They don't. At least not usually. The adults disperse and it LOOKS like the died

I know that they're not dispersing because I see that the few who didn't die are now dispersals.

[topp]

Originally posted by Misto Taco Laddy!:

They don't. At least not usually. The adults disperse and it LOOKS like the died

If they die, they have a red X on their information. If they disperse, they show up in the Dispersed Wolves section. Not sure what you mean by 'looks like they died'. It's pretty easy to tell the difference.

[Anthracite]

Have the subs and yearlings moved to a different map perhaps?

[Depressed_Cat]

Originally posted by Anthracite:

Have the subs and yearlings moved to a different map perhaps?

Nope. One or both of the pack leaders die, then within the next few days I will wake up, check known wolves, and every member of the pack suddenly has the red X next to their name. Typically, three have become dispersals, those are the only survivors. Then when the new pack comes, I check "departed wolves" and they're there, listed as dead.

[HeartClock]

Every time I see it happen, I just assume they were killed by another rival pack, because that's the only reason I can think of that would make sense.

[Jay]

Originally posted by topp:

Originally posted by Misto Taco Laddy!:

They don't. At least not usually. The adults disperse and it LOOKS like the died

If they die, they have a red X on their information. If they disperse, they show up in the Dispersed Wolves section. Not sure what you mean by 'looks like they died'. It's pretty easy to tell the difference.

Yes, when you kill off both alphas it shows Xs for all of them, unless some disperse I guess which I haven't seen happen.
This happened to me. They all had Xs. Then a little while later it showed those exact same wolves like this in the "deperated wolves": https://i.imgur.com/kopJS8G.png

[Katsu]

I also genuinely wonder why the yearling and the subordinates die if I kill both pack leaders. I think the yearling die cuz they aren't skilled and grown enough to live completely by themselves without older wolves taking the lead?
As for the subordinates, would it work logically if they couldn't also feed themselves without the leader, and they're just not "leader-coded"? I understand why the pack hexes grow weaker, since the subordinates probably can't really have a big impact on the territory, and maybe hunting becomes... Don't even know honestly Maybe the other dispersals chase all the food away or something lol /hj who knows but my point sounds ridiculous

[topp]

I just disbanded a pack, kind-of by accident (I always target leaders, and I'd killed one, and although a while passed, when I killed the other leader, he hadn't gotten a new mate). But I didn't have the whole pack randomly die.

Not counting the two leaders and a wolf I'd killed earlier, the wolves in the pack were 3 pups, Darkcloak M, Shady M, and Cursed F, (all of which died), two yearlings Honey M and Sweetie F, (both of which dispersed), one 2-year-sub, Flaming M, and a 3-year-sub, Cannonball M, (both of which also dispersed). The only ones I knew of to die, were the pups, whom I'd expect to die. (forgive the names, I have way too much fun naming every wolf I meet)

So I'm not sure if they fixed/changed something, or if this pack was lucky and didn't mostly die, but this was my experience.

[Depressed_Cat]

Originally posted by topp:

I just disbanded a pack, kind-of by accident (I always target leaders, and I'd killed one, and although a while passed, when I killed the other leader, he hadn't gotten a new mate). But I didn't have the whole pack randomly die.

Not counting the two leaders and a wolf I'd killed earlier, the wolves in the pack were 3 pups, Darkcloak M, Shady M, and Cursed F, (all of which died), two yearlings Honey M and Sweetie F, (both of which dispersed), one 2-year-sub, Flaming M, and a 3-year-sub, Cannonball M, (both of which also dispersed). The only ones I knew of to die, were the pups, whom I'd expect to die. (forgive the names, I have way too much fun naming every wolf I meet)

So I'm not sure if they fixed/changed something, or if this pack was lucky and didn't mostly die, but this was my experience.

Maybe it's a bug, maybe it's a chance thing and I rolled death for every pack. So far I've only disbanded packs in HR and LR so I'll just say the rest of the pack tried to hunt in the ranch/outside of Yellowstone and got shot.

[Wolfheart]

I drove off the Mollie's Pack on one of my saves. I killed a certain number of them and I think they decided to move maps.
Another one I disbanded turned into all dispersals and dead pups.
It just goes to show the importance of the breeding pair's experience and knowledge. Without them, generations are affected. There is a great book that talks about this: ''The Hidden Life of Wolves'' by Jim and Jamie Dutcher.
It talks about how if the breeding pair is removed, the rest of the pack goes crazy.
Also talks about the relationship between ranchers and wolves and why killing the wolves makes it worse.

[Wolfheart]

Originally posted by Katsu:

...I understand why the pack hexes grow weaker, since the subordinates probably can't really have a big impact on the territory...

I think that's because the pack leaders are responsible for territory marking. No leaders, no territory.

[Batchul4]

Originally posted by topp:

Keep in mind that if a pack disbands, all the pups will automatically die since they haven't yet learned to take care of themselves. This means that if a pack has a lot of pups, a lot of the pack will die when disbanding.
I think this used to be the same for Yearlings, but now that yearlings can disperse, I'm not sure if they all still die when the pack disbands.

They will become dispersals! I drove off Wapiti Lake and there was only a Yearling left.