Sickness in pups

[yawning]

I've been playing this game for a while and I play on accurate every single time because I prefer the game play to represent actual wolf life like those in the wild. Well, In previous versions I would have sick pups sometimes, they would sometimes die, sometimes not. Actually in previous versions there would be times I would actually get an entire litter from start to finish successfully to 20 pounds.

Recently though, I'm not sure if its a bug or not but every. single. litter. I have AT LEAST one pup die from illness. Even on four star diversity pairings. I'm raising a litter of pups right now with one of my wolves and so far out of 7 pups, there are only three left. 3 died of illness, and another is pretty much on the way. They're not even 15 pounds yet, nor are the ungulates born.

If this is actually realistic in real life wolves, then okay. I'll just suck it up. But if its not, could the illness probabilities be tweaked a bit? Any thoughts on this? Do fleas play a factor in a pup getting sick?

[Loach]

SIckness and malnutrition are the main causes of death for pups under six months of age. So yes, this is realistic to real life wolves. It's a rare feat for full litters to survive. Voyageur's Wolf project is good to check out for more info on that - there are packs that project tracks that have lost entire litters multiple years in a row.

No. Fleas do not influence or play a role in pup sickness. In real life they can, but in game they do not. The developers have confirmed this in the Official WolfQuest Discord Server.

Here is the full quote snippet on the subject from them on it:

Pup Sickness
Pups can fall ill. They may recover on their own or they may die. Spending time with them will improve their odds of recovery but won't guarantee it.

Their pawprint icon will glow when you are spending time with them.

Some pups are more susceptible to illness.

* All pups with two gray-coated parents, and roughly half the pups with one gray and one black parent, will have average resistance from diseases.
* Most pups with two black-coated parents will have higher disease resistance, but those litters are likely to be smaller than those with gray-gray or gray-black parents (as some of those pups will have died before birth). Any pups with two black-coated parents are extremely susceptible to disease, unlikely to survive to adulthood.

Watch these videos to learn about how coat color and the WolfQuest genetics system:

* Genes Behind the Scenes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV-Dd_ror8g
* Pupdate: Behind the Genes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y1Qunh_Cy8

TIPS

* Spending time with a sick pup will improve the odds of recovery but won't guarantee it.
* Spending time in the den does not affect recovery from illness.
* Sick pups may lose their appetite when sick but feeding them does not affect recovery from illness (nor does food make them sick).
* Fleas don't cause illness in the game. (In real life, fleas can be disease vectors but we did not include that in the gameplay). Flea load does not affect recovery.

This information can also be seen here: https://support.wolfquest.org/help/quest-raise-pups

[crys]

Originally posted by Loach:

* Most pups with two black-coated parents will have higher disease resistance, but those litters are likely to be smaller than those with gray-gray or gray-black parents (as some of those pups will have died before birth). Any pups with two black-coated parents are extremely susceptible to disease, unlikely to survive to adulthood.

I'm confused now because this statement contradicts itself.

[Loach]

Originally posted by crys:

I'm confused now because this statement contradicts itself.

It's worded a little weirdly. Here's a clarification of what it means:

- Pups with 2 black-coated parents are more "resistant". This means they are less likely to GET sick.
- However, if they DO get sick, it's far more likely the sickness will kill them than pups from gray x gray or gray x black litters.

Think of it as a person that rarely, if ever, gets sick, but when they do get sick, it has them stuck in bed for multiple days or even weeks. Ex they never get a mild cold, they always catch a horrid case of the flu, or similar.

Edit: fixing a word.

[Bee]

Originally posted by Loach:

Originally posted by crys:

I'm confused now because this statement contradicts itself.

It's worded a little weirdly. Here's a clarification of what it means:

- Pups with 2 black-coated parents are more "resistant". This means they are less likely to GET sick.
- However, if they DO get sick, it's far more likely the sickness will kill them than pups from gray x gray or gray x black litters.

Think of it as a person that rarely, if ever, gets sick, but when they do get sick, it has them stuck in bed for multiple days or even weeks. Ex they never get a mild cold, they always catch a horrid case of the flu, or similar.

Edit: fixing a word.

Oh! I didn't realize that's what it meant. I am having a similar problem to the person who posted this. Except I have a gray x black pairing, who's pups are, according to this, more likely to get sick but less likely to die. But the thing is, even with that pairing, whenever a pup gets sick, its game over for them pretty much.

[loboLoco]

Originally posted by crys:

Originally posted by Loach:

* Most pups with two black-coated parents will have higher disease resistance, but those litters are likely to be smaller than those with gray-gray or gray-black parents (as some of those pups will have died before birth). Any pups with two black-coated parents are extremely susceptible to disease, unlikely to survive to adulthood.

I'm confused now because this statement contradicts itself.

Hmm, yeah, that paragraph ain't great. I've revised it:

Some pups are more susceptible to illness.

* All pups with two gray-coated parents, and roughly half the pups with one gray and one black parent, will have gray coats and average resistance from diseases. (In terms of the K locus, they are kk -- watch videos for explanation of the K locus.)
* Most black-coated pups with two black-coated parents will have higher disease resistance (they are Kk). Occasionally a black-coated pup in such a litter will be very vulnerable to disease (KK) and likely to die at some point. However, these litters are generally smaller than those with gray-gray or gray-black parents, as some of their KK pups will have died before birth.

[crys]

That helps. Thank you. :)

[airgid-sionnach]

Originally posted by loboLoco:

Originally posted by crys:

I'm confused now because this statement contradicts itself.

Hmm, yeah, that paragraph ain't great. I've revised it:

Some pups are more susceptible to illness.

* All pups with two gray-coated parents, and roughly half the pups with one gray and one black parent, will have gray coats and average resistance from diseases. (In terms of the K locus, they are kk -- watch videos for explanation of the K locus.)
* Most black-coated pups with two black-coated parents will have higher disease resistance (they are Kk). Occasionally a black-coated pup in such a litter will be very vulnerable to disease (KK) and likely to die at some point. However, these litters are generally smaller than those with gray-gray or gray-black parents, as some of their KK pups will have died before birth.

Wait... I thought KK pups were similar to peanuts - in rabbits this is caused by the "double dwarfism" and causes a much smaller kit with small but noticeable deformities -and all of them were DOA or die within a month? Does this mean some of the Kk x Kk pups will randomly die during the saga?

Edit : typos and clarification of my niche genetic knowledge.

*I am comparing it to dwarfism and not Max Factor because Max Factor is not really a traditional thing and the symptoms are not similar to what KK pups seem to have.

[Loach]

Papers I've read on K locus have not mentioned physical deformities. It's almost always on how the gene influences invisible things, like the wolf's immune system.

Like this one: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.29.424723v1.full

[airgid-sionnach]

Originally posted by Loach:

Papers I've read on K locus have not mentioned physical deformities. It's almost always on how the gene influences invisible things, like the wolf's immune system.

Like this one: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.29.424723v1.full

I was referencing the extremely short lifespan caused by a specific locus, not necessarily the deformities expressed by it. After sleeping and rereading it I see I really didn't clarify anything by editing it.

Also, I rewatched Genes Behind the Scenes, and it did not answer my question, so I'll just wait until The Saga releases.

[Loach]

Did you read the paper I linked in that comment you quoted? It's a bit thick of a read since it's a scientific paper on K Locus, but it does have some useful information in it that might be helpful in the meantime.

[airgid-sionnach]

Originally posted by Loach:

Did you read the paper I linked in that comment you quoted? It's a bit thick of a read since it's a scientific paper on K Locus, but it does have some useful information in it that might be helpful in the meantime.

I read through part of it before I wrote my comment, but I currently don't have time to go through all of it. It is already very helpful, so thank you for sharing it. I want to make sure I read it a few times before I start speculating. It would be nice to have an updated genetics video after The Saga comes out, since the last one is pretty old at this point and more skins and customization is coming this year.

[Loach]

The game uses a simpler genetic model of 50 genes (25 allele pairs) that go into generating the pups from eye color to coat color to personality and stats. This is explained in Pupdate: Behind the Genes, and is still accurate to how it works in the current game, and is the most recent vid that goes into the game genetics.

If you're looking for a more specific answer, your best bet might be scientific papers (from what I understand, wolf genome still has not been fully analyzed / sequenced yet, so it's possible there's no clear answer to your question right now).

DLC coats we have access to already work with the in-game genetics system, and body modifications (that we currently have) do not get passed down genetically, and must be manually applied (outside of I think the radio collar, which if I recall pups can randomly get, might be misremembering).

I'm leaning on new stuff we get being sort of the same, functionally, and that if any of that changes it will come up in a devblog down the line. Until then, what we know is still accurate to how it is in-game.