Myst III: Exile

[Halloween Jack]

Moved thread from Riven discussions to Myst III: Exile discussions.

[Top Gun]

Yeah, it's amazing what's happened in Myst Online over the past few years. Cyan released Uru's engine source code and dev tools to the public over a decade ago, and there have been a handful of privately-run game instances that added new content, but more recently Cyan turned over active development of their officially-hosted version of the game to the community. There have been a number of patches and content drops, including many new Ages and game areas to explore, and there are even fan-run storylines in progress. It feels like the game is finally fulfilling the promise it had 20 years ago. It's all completely free, so I encourage anyone who's interested to give it a try.

[Hellish Fiend]

That adds a lot of context to their decision to essentially take over the Starry Expanse project. They were both carefully thought out decisions with the best interest of the respective projects in mind. Cheers to Cyan!

[Draaloff]

Originally posted by Hellish Fiend:

That adds a lot of context to their decision to essentially take over the Starry Expanse project. They were both carefully thought out decisions with the best interest of the respective projects in mind. Cheers to Cyan!

I honestly wish Cyan had stuck with the Starry Expanse Project's goal of faithfully remaking Riven in 3D. Instead, Cyan shut it down and made a rather different version of the game.

[vcatkiller]

Originally posted by Draaloff:

Originally posted by Hellish Fiend:

That adds a lot of context to their decision to essentially take over the Starry Expanse project. They were both carefully thought out decisions with the best interest of the respective projects in mind. Cheers to Cyan!

I honestly wish Cyan had stuck with the Starry Expanse Project's goal of faithfully remaking Riven in 3D. Instead, Cyan shut it down and made a rather different version of the game.

It would have been nice to have a faithful 1:1 remake but in full 3D for sure. I really enjoyed what we got, and I can kind of understand why some of the puzzles might have had issues in a full free roam style 3D engine, but it still would have been interesting.

[Draaloff]

Originally posted by vcatkiller:

Originally posted by Draaloff:

I honestly wish Cyan had stuck with the Starry Expanse Project's goal of faithfully remaking Riven in 3D. Instead, Cyan shut it down and made a rather different version of the game.

It would have been nice to have a faithful 1:1 remake but in full 3D for sure. I really enjoyed what we got, and I can kind of understand why some of the puzzles might have had issues in a full free roam style 3D engine, but it still would have been interesting.

All of the original puzzles would have been fine in 3D; it's VR that presents some issues.
That said, some of the changes, removals, simplifications, etc weren't at all necessary to make things more convenient in VR, and I can't see any reason for those changes.
What we got is pretty cool, but the puzzles and progression are just not as good as the originals in my opinion.

[Top Gun]

Honestly I loved how significant the changes were. Playing the most recent Myst version felt kind of pointless unless you have VR, since it was the same old game I've been playing for nearly 30 years, and it was even worse than realMyst because it doesn't have the Rime Age in it. But with Riven, I got to walk around all of the areas I've wanted to since the 90s (and then some), and beyond that I got to figure out some brand-new puzzles. Breaking out a notepad and paper for a game I've known by heart for so long was fantastic. I didn't think the new puzzles were better or worse than the originals, just different. The game still felt like Riven through and through.

[vcatkiller]

Originally posted by Top Gun:

Honestly I loved how significant the changes were. Playing the most recent Myst version felt kind of pointless unless you have VR, since it was the same old game I've been playing for nearly 30 years, and it was even worse than realMyst because it doesn't have the Rime Age in it. But with Riven, I got to walk around all of the areas I've wanted to since the 90s (and then some), and beyond that I got to figure out some brand-new puzzles. Breaking out a notepad and paper for a game I've known by heart for so long was fantastic. I didn't think the new puzzles were better or worse than the originals, just different. The game still felt like Riven through and through.

Oh yes, it was fantastic and I loved playing it, and it was one of my favourite gaming experiences of the year by far. That said, I would have loved to have seen what it would have turned out like if they kept it closer to the source material but still with the free roam style gameplay. That's what made the likes of RealMyst so special back in the day, it was basically the same game but now you could see things in it that you never could before. Riven 24 didn't quite do the same thing for me, it felt more like a remix. Kind of like listening to Disturbed's take on the song Sounds of Silence: all the lyrics from the original Simon and Garfunkel song is there, and the song is magnificent, but it's essentially still a different song.

[Hellish Fiend]

If I recall correctly, the original realMYST was relatively easy to put together logistically because 1:1 3D mappings for the areas already existed from the original Myst. Riven, however, didn’t have that advantage. The original Riven used isolated, high-detail sections rather than a single, unified 3D model. This means that even if the goal was a 1:1 remake, it would have required creating everything from the ground up. Additionally, it would still not have been a perfect 1:1 visual match because the still images we see in the original game do not represent a contiguous 3D space.

[Top Gun]

Yeah, the original Starry Expanse team talked about how it was difficult to make sense of how certain scenes from the original game fit together, and that some of the transitions between them were physically impossible. I think the remake wound up moving the islands closer to each other to make the scale fit better.

[vcatkiller]

Originally posted by Hellish Fiend:

If I recall correctly, the original realMYST was relatively easy to put together logistically because 1:1 3D mappings for the areas already existed from the original Myst. Riven, however, didn’t have that advantage. The original Riven used isolated, high-detail sections rather than a single, unified 3D model. This means that even if the goal was a 1:1 remake, it would have required creating everything from the ground up. Additionally, it would still not have been a perfect 1:1 visual match because the still images we see in the original game do not represent a contiguous 3D space.

Even RealMYST made some concessions in layout though. The puzzles and general placement were still basically the same though, only with alterations to make everything fit. The same thing would have happened if they kept everything nearly the same as Riven 97. So I guess in hindsight saying 1:1 remake was wrong. Riven 24 was fantastic, but it would have been nice if it were closer to the original than what it was.

[Draaloff]

Originally posted by vcatkiller:

Even RealMYST made some concessions in layout though. The puzzles and general placement were still basically the same though, only with alterations to make everything fit. The same thing would have happened if they kept everything nearly the same as Riven 97. So I guess in hindsight saying 1:1 remake was wrong. Riven 24 was fantastic, but it would have been nice if it were closer to the original than what it was.

Pretty much. The only change of note for the Myst remakes was the addition of Rime in the 2 RealMysts, and the removal of it in Myst 2021.

[Hellish Fiend]

Awesome! And I've enjoyed the experiences that you've shared with us, as well. Let us know how you enjoy the books, or if you decide to post on any of the other Myst game boards.

[Draaloff]

Originally posted by Eldin:

Maybe just a better game all around but think they did a really good job.

Originally posted by Draaloff Steam Review:

Below is a breakdown of some puzzle changes:

Global:

- Fire marble domes changed to a fast travel system with a minor puzzle, and no code lock
- A looking glass to see invisible paint

Temple Island:

- New fissure puzzle
- Rotation room side gate changed
- Puzzle of reaching golden dome 2nd floor removed
- Marble grid simplified, plus an additional element added

Jungle Island:

- Wooden eyes for animal circle puzzle replaced with something completely different
- Village underwater transport simplified
- Village has new things like drawbridges now

Book Assembly Island

- Entirely new puzzle to access Ghen's lab

Survey Island:

- The topography map building is gone (part of the marble grid's simplification)
- Slider puzzle to replace the above, plus a keypad

Prison Island:

- Can be accessed really early, so it's no longer a mysterious island that's really rewarding to reach after completing multiple major puzzles

Survey Island suffered the most with the removed survey puzzle, which was replaced with a very simple and out-of-place slider puzzle that just hands you the solution.
In addition to the removal of one of the games major puzzles, the golden elevator now leads to a tram station instead of being a buildup to the whark room.
It's a decent game, but I consider the puzzles and pacing vastly inferior to the original's.

[Top Gun]

Originally posted by Draaloff:

]Survey Island suffered the most with the removed survey puzzle, which was replaced with a very simple and out-of-place slider puzzle that just hands you the solution.
In addition to the removal of one of the games major puzzles, the golden elevator now leads to a tram station instead of being a buildup to the whark room.
It's a decent game, but I consider the puzzles and pacing vastly inferior to the original's.

See I disagree with that. I think one place where the remake shined the most was even more closely integrating the world mechanics into the puzzles. The fire-marble puzzle was the biggest example. In the original, we had no idea what fire-marbles actually were. Were they those tiny colored marbles on the waffle iron? How did they work exactly? If we were "powering" the domes, then why were they already rotating? How did the domes "power" Gehn's books in the first place, when they're just laying on those platforms? As much as I love the original game, a lot of that is left unexplained.

You're right that something is lost in not having to map the fire-marble domes. But look at what we get in return. We see firsthand where fire-marbles come from and how they're used. We use that fantastic Starry Expanse environment to power them up. We have to use the knowledge about power levels to complete the final puzzle, which repurposes the old dome sliders too. And we get a much clearer visual representation of how the books are actually powered. Plus it makes much more sense to only have a single central Linking Book, with how rare and precious Gehn's functional books were.

Or even look at the revised animal symbols puzzle. The original relied on some very convenient natural silhouettes to form the symbol clues, while this one makes it clear that the Moiety themselves constructed the clues. It makes more sense in-universe and feels less game-like.

[Hellish Fiend]

In my opinion, I would gladly have made the choice to sacrifice the things we lost just for the Starry Expanse addition. Nothing in a 1:1 remake (or at least as close as possible to 1:1) would have made my jaw drop and instilled the same sense of awe. It made me feel like I got to play Riven for the first time again, and a straight remake would not have achieved that for me.

And I did love the opportunity to try out some new Cyan puzzles since I havent had the opportunity to try out Obduction or Firmament yet.