Don't you people get bored?

[RaGe]

I still enjoy the game lots when people try new builds and play different playstyles, but lately everyone just picks melee and holds W+M1 throughout the level, and I have to stay back because if I keep pace with those players, I take friendly fire damage from their melee as well because none of them have the sense to run Down In Front. I get at least 2 if not 3 people running melee every game and it's the most boring thing I've ever played, and they're also the ones that hold W so much they end up far ahead and get caught by a sleeper and complain no one helped and leave the game. No wonder people complain the game is boring, if you just pick the same meta, crutch melee build and hold W+M1 the whole game of course it's boring af.

[Cranky]

Originally posted by White Defender:

Melee is bonkers, but holy hell people would cry if the devs actually made an effort to balance it.

I would derive pure joy from listening to the many whines and cries.

[Reeva!]

Melee is actually useful, but when massed you run into some problems yeah. Problem is.. it's melee.. if it wasn't strong, they'd take way too much damage or be useless against mutations.
Most satisfying part about melee is holding chokes, like doorways around the corners inside, if they take that power away by nerfing stamina it just becomes less satisfying.

If they nerf melee you'd start transitioning into healers whining about how melee is a liability, cuz it eats all their medkits to clear trauma after 2 hordes.

[Pandemonica]

Originally posted by Reeva!:

Melee is actually useful, but when massed you run into some problems yeah. Problem is.. it's melee.. if it wasn't strong, they'd take way too much damage or be useless against mutations.
Most satisfying part about melee is holding chokes, like doorways around the corners inside, if they take that power away by nerfing stamina it just becomes less satisfying.

If they nerf melee you'd start transitioning into healers whining about how melee is a liability, cuz it eats all their medkits to clear trauma after 2 hordes.

melee is actually broken op, yes you are right there. Problem is that melee is too strong and has always been strong. There is a reason why its the top broken abuser build in back 4 blood since the start. You dont need to hold choke points as anything that gets near u dies and heals/overheals you anyways. Melee needs to be high risk high reward, but sadly during the entire lifetime of back 4 blood, it has been ALL REWARD NO RISK..unless u just afk. Melee can have 88% damage resistance while still having the insane high damage output to solo everything that comes it's way, be it common specials or bosses, it matters not and to make it worse melee got more broken with attachments. No i aint talking about the Grim reaper and how it should be removed from the game.

It doesn't lose out on healing either as that's part of their deck. Nerfing melee would be good for the game as u wont be seeing people play it like monkeys and bore their teammates so they just go afk. Liability? just shoot things before they reach you, u don't need to take unneeded damage, so in turn the medic wont have to waste kits on people.

Reminder that melee has everything covered, easy special/common killing, bosses killer, best self healing/healing the game and 88% damage resistance to boot it. Tell me how broken melee is without telling me its broken... please..

[Reeva!]

Well yeah if everyone plays, aims, shoots, positions perfectly, no game is ever a challenge. You won't do that though.

It's by far the best class atm but there will always be a best class. Regardless, it'll never get tuned now that the game's lost support. You'll be seeing a lot more W+M1 before you quit.

[StopItStepBro]

I'm convinced that half the quickplay playerbase on Nightmare/No Hope are just persistent trolls or stoners with open mics on console.

[Anachronomalous]

The attachments were a good idea in that they keep melee useable as an occasional fallback option without needing to dedicate entire builds to it (which is pretty much what melee should be in FPS games, not a main playstyle; the genre is about aiming and shooting things, and the only exception to that is Vermintide because that's designed from the ground up with elaborate melee mechanics).

But the insane base strength + ease of use + attachments + absurdly broken Legendary attachments are going to ensure that there's at least 2 melee players in every QP game until the end of time, sadly.

Originally posted by White Defender:

Melee is bonkers, but holy hell people would cry if the devs actually made an effort to balance it.

IIRC the game already got review bombed during the game's first round of patches since melee got nerfed a bit along with some of the speedrun cards. So there's that.

Originally posted by Reeva!:

Well yeah if everyone plays, aims, shoots, positions perfectly, no game is ever a challenge. You won't do that though.

I mean, you don't even need to be perfect to clear No Hope, just put enough damage downrange to stop things from murdering your group.

I do repeatedly see players wanting to "play tank" but really I'd rather they just click on weak spots with hitscans like #deity intended.

Originally posted by Reeva!:

It's by far the best class atm but there will always be a best class.

"Best build" isn't a problem in itself if there is an actual measure of skill indexing to that meta, but everyone and their cat picks melee precisely because it's so easy and simple to use. It can certainly have some measure of trouble in a couple of spots even if it W+M1s through most of the game, but that's not really balance nor does it excuse how stupidly powerful it is. Low skill-indexed metas are bad for games.

If it hard-capped on the higher difficulties and thus encouraged players to actually learn to shoot instead of leaning on melee to carry them, that would be another matter, but that's not the case.

[Clockeye]

Originally posted by White Defender:

Melee is bonkers, but holy hell people would cry if the devs actually made an effort to balance it.

it's comments like these that really show just how ignorant people are to gun decks or just extremely bad at aiming.

edit: thank you for the jesters. While you whinebuckets "REEEE" about melee, I'll keep on soloing bosses and mutations with my gun deck from back here.

[Reeva!]

Problem with melee is Tallboys. Tallboys specifically almost always hit you before you hit them reliably. Your team factors into this, if they shoot it enough you don't have to deal with it, but their speed and melee's lack of knockback resistance makes Tallboys a bit of a slog.

When a Tallboy charges, his next hit will happen way faster than it usually does. If he charges, stops, and walks towards you normally, that next attack is 'still' going to be way faster. I don't know if that's a bug, but it makes sprinting towards a Tallboy feel like walking into a bullet.

I hate both the Tallboy and Bruiser because they fundamentally feel like unsatisfying targets to shoot at. They hide their weakspot when locked onto you, unless they hit you, then you can hit their weakspot, but at that point you already took damage. This feels crap as melee and while using guns. Almost half of most peoples' decks are dedicate towards weakspot damage, and having those derplords walking towards me just makes me want to turn around and walk away so I don't have to shoot at them.

if they fixed Tallboys, melee can definitely be nerfed, into the ground even, but Tallboys just don't play nice with anyone who doesn't use a shotgun. There's a reason melee is broken, and it's because Tallboys are broken.

[Reeva!]

For sure if they made melee a bit more skill based rather than holding down a button with infinite stamina, blocking, timed parries, you name it. Make people who use the most OP build have to work for their damage. Atm it's like a sniper, except it hits way faster and costs nothing to do. Give people a way to skillfully take down a Tallboy with melee, cuz you don't just get 1 tallboy, or 2 tallboys, you can get way more coming in at all angles. Melee is a pinball waiting to be flung around the place at that point.

[Godwoken Dovahkiin]

I'm laughing hard at the people that think melee is OK. When in reality it's up there with Infinite Accessory Bug, old Expired T5 and old Pinata. Most people in this game are allergic to anything skillful and it doesn't surprise me given where they come from. Then again we do have console users abusing melee because this game wasn't really made with controllers in mind.

I remember back when they nerfed melee like 3 times people would complain, say it's dead and leave bad reviews, yet when I tested it every time melee was still strong in fact almost untouched if you replaced some cards. There's a lot of people here that don't know how to play at all and don't know how to adapt.

It's TRS fault for trying to make "fun" things rather than balanced things. You can tell where their mindset was with Expired T5 and Grim Reaper. Sadly fun for them means broken for some reason, very few devs know how to balance.

I can count with a single hand the few people here that actually know what they're talking about.

[RaGe]

Originally posted by Godwoken Dovahkiin:

I'm laughing hard at the people that think melee is OK. When in reality it's up there with Infinite Accessory Bug, old Expired T5 and old Pinata. Most people in this game are allergic to anything skillful and it doesn't surprise me given where they come from. Then again we do have console users abusing melee because this game wasn't really made with controllers in mind.

I remember back when they nerfed melee like 3 times people would complain, say it's dead and leave bad reviews, yet when I tested it every time melee was still strong in fact almost untouched if you replaced some cards. There's a lot of people here that don't know how to play at all and don't know how to adapt.

It's TRS fault for trying to make "fun" things rather than balanced things. You can tell where their mindset was with Expired T5 and Grim Reaper. Sadly fun for them means broken for some reason, very few devs know how to balance.

I can count with a single hand the few people here that actually know what they're talking about.

The game was fine and fun in December though, and if I'm not wrong, melee hadn't been broken yet. I only complained about melee when they had the trauma "fix" that made it impossible to play melee on Veteran and above. Other than that, melee had been fine, even launch melee, because it prevented speed runner melees with Mean Drunk disabling Sprint. They should just re-add a condition like Disables Overheal, or Disables Melee attachments to Meth Head and move the Disable Aim Down Sights to Mean Drunk. That'll make it so people are forced to play risky if they want to continue using Meth Head, and will be encouranged to use guns a little as well.

[Reeva!]

Well you also have the chance of getting Grim Reaper, at that point you win the game cuz you can one shot any boss even without weakspot hits. They really seem to be going for fun rather than balance, which I know isn't true cuz they kept reworking melee since launch because it was too OP. Don't really know what they were thinking, if they were thinking at all...

[Godwoken Dovahkiin]

Originally posted by bb.Snow:

Originally posted by Godwoken Dovahkiin:

I'm laughing hard at the people that think melee is OK. When in reality it's up there with Infinite Accessory Bug, old Expired T5 and old Pinata. Most people in this game are allergic to anything skillful and it doesn't surprise me given where they come from. Then again we do have console users abusing melee because this game wasn't really made with controllers in mind.

I remember back when they nerfed melee like 3 times people would complain, say it's dead and leave bad reviews, yet when I tested it every time melee was still strong in fact almost untouched if you replaced some cards. There's a lot of people here that don't know how to play at all and don't know how to adapt.

It's TRS fault for trying to make "fun" things rather than balanced things. You can tell where their mindset was with Expired T5 and Grim Reaper. Sadly fun for them means broken for some reason, very few devs know how to balance.

I can count with a single hand the few people here that actually know what they're talking about.

The game was fine and fun in December though, and if I'm not wrong, melee hadn't been broken yet. I only complained about melee when they had the trauma "fix" that made it impossible to play melee on Veteran and above. Other than that, melee had been fine, even launch melee, because it prevented speed runner melees with Mean Drunk disabling Sprint. They should just re-add a condition like Disables Overheal, or Disables Melee attachments to Meth Head and move the Disable Aim Down Sights to Mean Drunk. That'll make it so people are forced to play risky if they want to continue using Meth Head, and will be encouranged to use guns a little as well.

I don't know how the meta was before April since I started playing in that time, however:

April:
Combat Knife hit multiple enemies
Fire Axe was really strong

And thus we had the infamous Combat Knife/Fire Axe meta, we had a horde clearer and mutation killer that could tank. THP meta began with Fit as a Fiddle as well.

June:
Combat Knife got nerfed to hit only 1 person and Fire Axe was nerfed as well as Holly.

However Spiky Bits was tweaked to have 20 flat damage instead of 20% damage and Machete got a stamina decrease from 10 to 6 and thus began the Machete meta. Stamina efficiency was so good at that time even Hatchet at 13 stamina from 10 was good. Some THP cards were nerfed but fixed to add in healing efficiency, Mean Drunk no longer slowed. Among attack speed changes. (Which is hilarious how someone here said they were making melee as if "jumping through hoops" just because you needed to stack Meth Head, yeah you're here in this thread, you never knew what you were talking about, and you still don't know what you're talking about ).

August: Spiky Bits nerfed from 20 to 15 flat damage. Doesn't matter, it only meant you no longer killed commons with your fists in one hit, you still healed and tanked.

October: Heng rework, infinite stamina. Melee still intact.

December: Lol Grim Reaper and no balance to the obvious.

All of this without mentioning the small details that factored into things. Some people knew of certain cards not working properly and thus giving out more advantage. A lot of things were happening that the casual player was not even aware of.

Melee has been broken for a long time without a doubt as it provided too much value at the time. Kinda like how Hoffman Pinata meta helped with income which further disturbed the balance, economy, difficulty and threat.

I will, forever say, a lot of people that have come to these forums DON'T KNOW ANYTHING of what they're talking about. 95% of the people here did not dedicate enough time to understand this game or test, what they did dedicate time to was to complain . "Wahhh they nerfed melee, it's now unplayable" I laugh every time.

[Pandemonica]

Originally posted by Godwoken Dovahkiin:

Originally posted by bb.Snow:

The game was fine and fun in December though, and if I'm not wrong, melee hadn't been broken yet. I only complained about melee when they had the trauma "fix" that made it impossible to play melee on Veteran and above. Other than that, melee had been fine, even launch melee, because it prevented speed runner melees with Mean Drunk disabling Sprint. They should just re-add a condition like Disables Overheal, or Disables Melee attachments to Meth Head and move the Disable Aim Down Sights to Mean Drunk. That'll make it so people are forced to play risky if they want to continue using Meth Head, and will be encouranged to use guns a little as well.

Your progress must of have been slow or was not aware of the meta at the time then.

April:
Combat Knife hit multiple enemies
Fire Axe was really strong

And thus we had the infamous Combat Knife/Fire Axe meta, we had a horde clearer and mutation killer that could tank. THP meta began with Fit as a Fiddle as well.

June:
Combat Knife got nerfed to hit only 1 person and Fire Axe was nerfed as well as Holly.

However Spiky Bits was tweaked to have 20 flat damage instead of 20% damage and Machete got a stamina decrease from 10 to 6 and thus began the Machete meta. Stamina efficiency was so good at that time even Hatchet at 13 stamina from 10 was good. Some THP cards were nerfed but fixed to add in healing efficiency, Mean Drunk no longer slowed. Among attack speed changes. (Which is hilarious how someone here said they were making melee as if "jumping through hoops" just because you needed to stack Meth Head, yeah you're here in this thread, you never knew what you were talking about, and you still don't know what you're talking about ).

August: Spiky Bits nerfed from 20 to 15 flat damage. Doesn't matter, it only meant you no longer killed commons with your fists in one hit, you still healed and tanked.

October: Heng rework, infinite stamina. Melee still intact.

December: Lol Grim Reaper and no balance to the obvious.

All of this without mentioning the small details that factored into things. Some people knew of certain cards not working properly and thus giving out more advantage. A lot of things were happening that the casual player was not even aware of.

Melee has always been broken without a doubt as it provided too much value at the time. Kinda like how Hoffman Pinata meta helped with income which further disturbed the balance, difficulty and threat.

I will, forever say, a lot of people that have come to these forums DON'T KNOW ANYTHING of what they're talking about. 95% of the people here did not dedicate enough time to understand this game or test, what they did dedicate time to was to complain .

Amen brother, i wish people would try to understand the game. There is nothing wrong with knowing something is broken op and acknowledging it and why people are annoyed with it. Again, the truth/facts don't care how u feel, its just how it is. That's why alot of people(who want to get good at the game) opt out of abuser builds like melee.

Again, melee has everything covered in the game with no downsides unless u go afk. People want to improve but when one build since the start of b4b just says, easy mode right here guys.. no need to think then it will become a problem. I cant see a team that completes no hope while having a melee user on the team as a valid (we beat no hope guys we're good), yea i don't think so. How do u balance a melee build around a shooter game? Sometimes i wonder how much better back 4 blood would have been without ever having any sort of melee cards or melee in general.

[Godwoken Dovahkiin]

Originally posted by Pandemonica:

Originally posted by Godwoken Dovahkiin:

Your progress must of have been slow or was not aware of the meta at the time then.

April:
Combat Knife hit multiple enemies
Fire Axe was really strong

And thus we had the infamous Combat Knife/Fire Axe meta, we had a horde clearer and mutation killer that could tank. THP meta began with Fit as a Fiddle as well.

June:
Combat Knife got nerfed to hit only 1 person and Fire Axe was nerfed as well as Holly.

However Spiky Bits was tweaked to have 20 flat damage instead of 20% damage and Machete got a stamina decrease from 10 to 6 and thus began the Machete meta. Stamina efficiency was so good at that time even Hatchet at 13 stamina from 10 was good. Some THP cards were nerfed but fixed to add in healing efficiency, Mean Drunk no longer slowed. Among attack speed changes. (Which is hilarious how someone here said they were making melee as if "jumping through hoops" just because you needed to stack Meth Head, yeah you're here in this thread, you never knew what you were talking about, and you still don't know what you're talking about ).

August: Spiky Bits nerfed from 20 to 15 flat damage. Doesn't matter, it only meant you no longer killed commons with your fists in one hit, you still healed and tanked.

October: Heng rework, infinite stamina. Melee still intact.

December: Lol Grim Reaper and no balance to the obvious.

All of this without mentioning the small details that factored into things. Some people knew of certain cards not working properly and thus giving out more advantage. A lot of things were happening that the casual player was not even aware of.

Melee has always been broken without a doubt as it provided too much value at the time. Kinda like how Hoffman Pinata meta helped with income which further disturbed the balance, difficulty and threat.

I will, forever say, a lot of people that have come to these forums DON'T KNOW ANYTHING of what they're talking about. 95% of the people here did not dedicate enough time to understand this game or test, what they did dedicate time to was to complain .

Amen brother, i wish people would try to understand the game. There is nothing wrong with knowing something is broken op and acknowledging it and why people are annoyed with it. Again, the truth/facts don't care how u feel, its just how it. That's why alot of people(who want to get good at the game) opt out of abuser builds like melee.

Again, melee has everything covered in the game with no downsides unless u go afk. People want to improve but when one build since the start of b4b just says, easy mode right here guys.. no need to think then it will become a problem. I cant see a team that completes no hope while having a melee user on the team as a valid (we beat no hope guys we're good), yea i don't think so. How do u balance a melee build around a shooter game? Sometimes i wonder how much better back 4 blood would have been without ever having any sort of melee cards or melee in general.

"But they nerfed melee, it's unplayable now . I'm going to leave a bad review!"

-Every noob when a new patch came out.

And my haters wonder why I look down on a lot of peoples opinions here lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3RuUYTcZhE