To all the new players queueing for No Hope. Pay the tax!

[Heretic]

So youre a 1337 h4x0r, 360 noscope with the awp all day long. I get it, I've been there too. But in Back 4 Blood that isn't as important as having a handful of cards in your deck so that everyone benefits. Pretend you can only use 9 cards to build your decks, and always include the following 6 cards.

Food Scavenger - Spawn food on the map, food is highlighted. Mmmm Peaches.
Copper Scavenger - Spawn 2 copper piles on the map, copper is highlighted.
Money Grubbers - +3 Copper every time you pick up a copper pile. Stacks for 25 piles.
Lucky Pennies - 35% Chance for 100% Copper when picking up a pile.(bugged,stacks)
Down in Front - Do no FF damage, take no FF damage when crouched. +10 Health
Needs of the Many - +1 to team lives. -10% Health


Scavenger cards stack across the team, so 4x scav will max out all the possible spawns. Its probably overkill to 4-stack all the scav cards, but copper and food are the exceptions.

Grubbers and Pennies, for the absolute most amount of money with the least investment. Cost of Avarice will greatly boost the return on Pennies, since you can still proc the additional copper, even if you don't pick up the pile. Since September 2022 there is also a chance that the 100% copper from Lucky Pennies will proc multiple times when someone picks up copper, its bugged and sort of works like a team effects card. So each player with the card equipped has a 35% chance to proc 100% copper, and if multiple players proc the 100% copper, every player using Lucky Pennies gets that extra copper. Warped Piles seem to only proc at 100%, but the 100 copper is rewarded to every player with Lucky Pennies. A regular 100 copper pile can proc the 100% multiple times and it will be rewarded to every play with the card.

Down in Front because the ability to spray lead toward your teammates without doing damage to them is the most over powered thing imaginable, and it should probably be removed from the game in B4B2.

Needs of the Many because having lives and not having lives is the difference between wiping, and just having an exciting, sweaty palm time in No Hope. Remember, you start with 0 lives in No Hope. One of the reasons playing with Bots is easier is because this card is in their deck, so you have a minimum of 3 lives even if you don't put it in your deck. But I still recommend to take it, even if you use a DPS Deck.

These are my three most played Decks.
DPS - https://www.forthope.gg/decks/xshgid765phpWn3K
Support - https://www.forthope.gg/decks/ZyuLd4AlM6YAK1zV
Left 4 Dead - https://new.forthope.gg/decks/PqrkH7EvGG4lB8OPXHAY

This last deck you can play the game like its L4D, its how I play No Hope these days.

[Nut]

Saying this person whose second fav cleaner for chill No Hope runs is Heng, Food Scav's amazing with a Heng but not a must have in his absence, and unless you decide to main Heng yourself or deliberately search for lobbies with a Heng you can't guarantee you'll get the best use out of that card, been opting out of playing Heng for a while and have only seen 4 randoms play Heng within the past 2 weeks. Health Regen is covered by

Copper Scav/Money Grubbers/Lucky Pennies is a godly combo and unless one's modded their way into having inf burn cards and decides to use Hired Gun every round there's not much reason to *not* bring those cards, except maybe Lucky Pennies if you're really hungry for more cards.

Down in Front's a no brainer, both protection against griefing and accidental tk's

Needs of the Many is amazing but not strictly needed, if there's absolutely no one bringing NooM including you, you could just bring in Group Hug, not like that burn card's all that hard to come by

[Heretic]

Originally posted by Nut:

Saying this person whose second fav cleaner for chill No Hope runs is Heng, Food Scav's amazing with a Heng but not a must have in his absence, and unless you decide to main Heng yourself or deliberately search for lobbies with a Heng you can't guarantee you'll get the best use out of that card, been opting out of playing Heng for a while and have only seen 4 randoms play Heng within the past 2 weeks. Health Regen is covered by

Copper Scav/Money Grubbers/Lucky Pennies is a godly combo and unless one's modded their way into having inf burn cards and decides to use Hired Gun every round there's not much reason to *not* bring those cards, except maybe Lucky Pennies if you're really hungry for more cards.

Down in Front's a no brainer, both protection against griefing and accidental tk's

Needs of the Many is amazing but not strictly needed, if there's absolutely no one bringing NooM including you, you could just bring in Group Hug, not like that burn card's all that hard to come by

The amount of people I see walk by Peaches in No Hope because they aren't highlighted. Plus the card gives health for eating any food item. Food Scavenger is a tax to be paid. Its a new player tax anyway, it helps learn the game and generally makes for a better time.

[Psilo]

good to know. i would have never know these were good if you didnt mention it

[Psilo]

do players generally follow this build in no hope or do they do whatever from your experience?

[Heretic]

Originally posted by Psilo:

do players generally follow this build in no hope or do they do whatever from your experience?

They do whatever. People like to queue up with the starter deck too. I just like to point out there are some baseline cards that go a long, very long way, to making things more manageable in No Hope.

[Psilo]

Originally posted by Heretic:

Originally posted by Psilo:

do players generally follow this build in no hope or do they do whatever from your experience?

They do whatever. People like to queue up with the starter deck too. I just like to point out there are some baseline cards that go a long, very long way, to making things more manageable in No Hope.

Yeah, but your cards seem only meta when other players run the same build, especially the 3 copper generating cards.
I think the copper cards is the kind of deal where if everyone runs it, its better than anything else, but not if you're the only one running it. ill try your build for sure

[Cokefish (grilby)]

Originally posted by Heretic:

These are my two most played Decks.
DPS - https://www.forthope.gg/decks/xshgid765phpWn3K
Support - https://www.forthope.gg/decks/ZyuLd4AlM6YAK1zV

How can you possibly call that a DPS deck when there are 10 support cards and only 5 damage cards in there?

[Hyluxiao]

Originally posted by Psilo:

Originally posted by Heretic:

They do whatever. People like to queue up with the starter deck too. I just like to point out there are some baseline cards that go a long, very long way, to making things more manageable in No Hope.

Yeah, but your cards seem only meta when other players run the same build, especially the 3 copper generating cards.
I think the copper cards is the kind of deal where if everyone runs it, its better than anything else, but not if you're the only one running it. ill try your build for sure

if you manage your copper well you can disregard putting econ cards in your deck with a few Hired Gun burn cards. and I agree copper cards are better when stacked, but even then you shouldn't depend on a team of randoms to spend wisely

[Mister Torgue Flexington]

I try to utilize both "Money Grubbers" and "Lucky Pennies" in almost all of my builds myself, as those 2 particular cards are a no-brainer. as for "Copper Scavenger" goes, that card isn't bad, but I don't like the idea of only having 2 piles drop when equipped. although as mentioned above, that one is best used in a full 4-man team, especially if the other 3 teammates are equipped with it as well.

[Hyluxiao]

Originally posted by Mister Torgue Flexington:

I try to utilize both "Money Grubbers" and "Lucky Pennies" in almost all of my builds myself, as those 2 particular cards are a no-brainer. as for "Copper Scavenger" goes, that card isn't bad, but I don't like the idea of only having 2 piles drop when equipped. although as mentioned above, that one is best used in a full 4-man team, especially if the other 3 teammates are equipped with it as well.

also an early embezzler will make up for the lack of cards

[ggAkatsukiP]

Originally posted by Cokefish (tuxedo mask):

Originally posted by Heretic:

These are my two most played Decks.
DPS - https://www.forthope.gg/decks/xshgid765phpWn3K
Support - https://www.forthope.gg/decks/ZyuLd4AlM6YAK1zV

How can you possibly call that a DPS deck when there are 10 support cards and only 5 damage cards in there?

Btw what's the structure of deck that define a dps deck?
Like 10 offensive cards, then 5 for misc?

[Heretic]

Originally posted by Cokefish (tuxedo mask):

Originally posted by Heretic:

These are my two most played Decks.
DPS - https://www.forthope.gg/decks/xshgid765phpWn3K
Support - https://www.forthope.gg/decks/ZyuLd4AlM6YAK1zV

How can you possibly call that a DPS deck when there are 10 support cards and only 5 damage cards in there?

Thats all you need really. I'd rather have the scav cards with me, then show up to the first level of an act on no hope with ravenous and no food scav. If you really felt you needed more damage you could drop some of those scav cards for more damage, but the DPS is overkill on Nightmare and below. And even if you fully stack a DPS deck, it will still feel bad in No Hope until you have blue/purple weapons. And truth be told, I actually replace Hyper-Focused with Medical Professional when I play because I'm playing Quickplay 99.9% of the time.

Originally posted by Hyluxiao:

Originally posted by Psilo:

Yeah, but your cards seem only meta when other players run the same build, especially the 3 copper generating cards.
I think the copper cards is the kind of deal where if everyone runs it, its better than anything else, but not if you're the only one running it. ill try your build for sure

if you manage your copper well you can disregard putting econ cards in your deck with a few Hired Gun burn cards. and I agree copper cards are better when stacked, but even then you shouldn't depend on a team of randoms to spend wisely

I agree about the Hired Gun cards letting you manage eco without using eco cards, but the dream for me, which in 1450 hours has never happened in any legit way, is to buy every single team upgrade in every saferoom and still have copper to burn on good paid intel spawns while unbolting your favourite guns.

Originally posted by Mister Torgue Flexington:

I try to utilize both "Money Grubbers" and "Lucky Pennies" in almost all of my builds myself, as those 2 particular cards are a no-brainer. as for "Copper Scavenger" goes, that card isn't bad, but I don't like the idea of only having 2 piles drop when equipped. although as mentioned above, that one is best used in a full 4-man team, especially if the other 3 teammates are equipped with it as well.

To me the strongest part of Scavenger cards is that they highlight items. Knowing that there is a copper pile, or intel spawn(heng) or medkit somewhere helps you make the decision to go to that room(break an alarm door, sometimes). Sometimes you are rewarded with something good and maybe your whole team walks away with 4x Bomb Squad, or a good team effect stack. And sometimes you just burn through some ammo and health to see the 5th time Expired T5 has spawned. At the very least, if you are taking Money Grubbers, those 2 piles from copper scavenger shouldn't be seen as +3 and +6 extra copper, you should count them as the 13th and 14th stack value. No Hope spawns 12 piles, so if everyone takes copper scav its 8 extra piles, if everyone has grubbers thats like 2384 team copper, or 596 individual copper. Not a bad sum, and thats assuming 25 copper piles with no lucky pennies proc.

Originally posted by ggAkatsukiP:

Originally posted by Cokefish (tuxedo mask):

How can you possibly call that a DPS deck when there are 10 support cards and only 5 damage cards in there?

Btw what's the structure of deck that define a dps deck?
Like 10 offensive cards, then 5 for misc?

Well, if you do it the way I suggest it would be like 6 misc, 9 offensive cards. But there is no right way and if you are building an ADS sniper dps deck then you probably need all the offensive cards you can take. My dps deck is refined from playing for a long time and finding a playstyle that works for me.

[Cokefish (grilby)]

Originally posted by ggAkatsukiP:

Originally posted by Cokefish (tuxedo mask):

How can you possibly call that a DPS deck when there are 10 support cards and only 5 damage cards in there?

Btw what's the structure of deck that define a dps deck?
Like 10 offensive cards, then 5 for misc?

A DPS deck needs:

• Hyper-Focused/Ridden Slayer
  
• Glass Cannon
  
• Patient Hunter
  
• Confident Killer
  
• Marked for Death
  
• Silver Bullets
  
• Large Caliber Rounds
  
• Shredder/Power Swap/Belligerent/Fill 'Em Full of Lead/Tactical Vest/Mag Carrier/Stock Pouch

[Cokefish (grilby)]

Originally posted by Heretic:

Originally posted by Cokefish (tuxedo mask):

How can you possibly call that a DPS deck when there are 10 support cards and only 5 damage cards in there?

Thats all you need really. I'd rather have the scav cards with me, then show up to the first level of an act on no hope with ravenous and no food scav. If you really felt you needed more damage you could drop some of those scav cards for more damage, but the DPS is overkill on Nightmare and below. And even if you fully stack a DPS deck, it will still feel bad in No Hope until you have blue/purple weapons. And truth be told, I actually replace Hyper-Focused with Medical Professional when I play because I'm playing Quickplay 99.9% of the time.

If you're playing No Hope, then you would likely run out of ammo with this deck, and your health pool would be wiped from single Stinger or Tallboy. In literally the second level of the game, I found a blue Witness from Tala's corruption crate and was wiping Tallboys with only like 17 bullets. And my health was 130. You're overthinking it with the Scavenger cards.

[Heretic]

Originally posted by Cokefish (tuxedo mask):

Originally posted by Heretic:

Thats all you need really. I'd rather have the scav cards with me, then show up to the first level of an act on no hope with ravenous and no food scav. If you really felt you needed more damage you could drop some of those scav cards for more damage, but the DPS is overkill on Nightmare and below. And even if you fully stack a DPS deck, it will still feel bad in No Hope until you have blue/purple weapons. And truth be told, I actually replace Hyper-Focused with Medical Professional when I play because I'm playing Quickplay 99.9% of the time.

If you're playing No Hope, then you would likely run out of ammo with this deck, and your health pool would be wiped from single Stinger or Tallboy. In literally the second level of the game, I found a blue Witness from Tala's corruption crate and was wiping Tallboys with only like 17 bullets. And my health was 130. You're overthinking it with the Scavenger cards.

Like I said, I just grab a 870 right away so ammo usually isn't too bad if you switch out for a pistol often, and more than one person grabs On Your Mark and also, most people on no hope will give you ammo if you ask. The DPS card selection for me was just boiled down into what provides maximum benefit for me based on my playstyle. I'm not holding out for perfect weakspot shots, I see specials I'm immediately throwing lead. So, hyper-focused can be swapped for medical professional just to have some quality of life. Shredder is a no brainer since I'm using the 870 and its multiplicative, Glass Cannon cause its flat 25% across the board, Confident Killer because its multiplicative and ramps quickly in No Hope and Large Calibre Rounds because the penetration will help clear hordes as they bunch up.

As for overthinking the scav cards, I don't think so. Its a quality of life thing for the entire team, certainly the copper scavenger is worthy of a 4 stack, if nothing else. Finding defibs and toolkits can absolutely be clutch. Having pills scattered around to pop all the time can really help take the edge off when youre struggling a bit, maybe you find a nice medkit, thats always nice. Maybe the melee guy is happy to be finding stun guns just laying around the map too. And Food, if people can't see the benefit of the food and having food scav so you can 1.) See it to begin with. 2.) Heal 3 hp everytime you eat and 3.) mmm peaches, then I don't know what to tell you. Its the second best scav card in the game by far, after copper of course.