How good are Shotgun-based Builds?

[Mister Torgue Flexington]

Currently, i'm toying with the idea of doing a potential Shotgun build, using these following Burn Cards:

"Large Caliber Rounds"

"Scattergun Skills" (for the increased reload speed w/shotguns"

"Phosphorous Tipped" (for the chance of lighting a Ridden on fire for the extra damage)

"Shell Carrier" (for the extra ammo capacity & damage)

"Ammo Belt" (for the extra ammo capacity & reload speed)

"Silver Bullets" (for the extra damage & slightly increased bullet range)

"Rolling Thunder" (for the increased movement speed & damage w/shotguns)

"Knowledge is Power" (to see the enemy health bars for the Mutations, so this skill was too important for me to pass up)

"Ridden Slayer" (for the extra Weakspot Damage)

"Front Sight Focus" (for the extra Weakspot Damage, Accuracy, Aim Speed, & Recoil Control)

"Cold Brew Coffee" (for the extra Reload Speed, Aim Speed, Weapon Swap Speed, & Use Speed)

"Buckshot Bruiser" (to regain Temporary Health for each pellet that hits)

"EMT Bag" (to boost the healing stats from "Buckshot Bruiser")

Yeah I know, i'll get the usual "post in the Deck Building sub-forum", but because that forum is dead as a rusty door-nail (and me still being new to the game), I wanted to post this here where it's not only a little bit more active, but also to get tips from those who used similar builds like this one.

(NOTE: The reason for keeping "Breakout" and "Second Chance" is pretty much obvious, as the former allows me to free myself from enemy grabs and keep fighting, while the latter pretty much gives me 1 Extra Life [on top of a small HP Boost and a 25% Bleed-Out Resistance] in the case if i'm killed in the middle of a fight, or if i'm caught off-guard by a Tallboy knocking me out-of-bounds for an instant death)

[Mirror System X]

引用自 John：

EMT bag has literally no effect on buckshot bruiser.

Yes, because it is not a healing effect, it is called "gain" temp HP, not "heal". Healing efficiency can not change those effects. Despite of this, mom's team effect (slower temp HP decay), that of the card Pumped up can aid. Another is Numb, but if you don't have Holly + Well rested or another temp. HP effect, you can safely skip it.

引用自 Mister Torgue Flexington：

for a Shotgun Build, probably either the Super-90 or the AA-12 (especially if it's the Damnation), due to both being semi-auto and having fast firing rates. i'm leaning towards the AA-12 a tiny bit more, since it loads a bit faster than the Super-90 and has a larger ammo capacity and magazine size [more so with good extended magazine attachment)

Both have recoil and accuracy drawbacks. I've always preferred the simple 870 express as it has better control, lower spread and good magazine size. AA-12 would also be the weapon with the worst ammo efficiency, if it wasn't for the Desert Eagle, so if you aren't at least a bit careful, even bots can't help reload your gun.

引用自 Mister Torgue Flexington：

Damnation

And you cannot put any attachment on a legendary weapon. The strongest shotgun combo I've seen so far was infinite range attach on a mid-end shotgun. With enough reload speed can help a Super 90 exceed the AA's total DPS. The super 90 beats the '870's DPS, though not by a lot, but has some more handling issues and a bit worse ammo efficiency. The other two shotguns (both sawn-offs) are another story, not very easy and comfortable to control, especially since ammo stash costs you 20% reload speed.

The ADS issues are general in B4B, since the spawn system and immense enemy movement speed can sharply violate the use of slower aiming, so often you might want to grab quick kill (not only with shotguns), and also hunker down can quickly alter the spread, while also giving 10% resist, which can help well shotguns. Still, two sight attachments can be used well without a big zooming difference, you don't have a big use on 2x/4x on shotguns. Partially similar for SMGs, though the UMP has better SMG range.

[Mister Torgue Flexington]

引用自 Nazapher：

引用自 John：

Personally i just don't really see a use for aiming down sights, especially for shotguns. Guess i have too much experience with making 50 meter distance headshots in L4D with shotguns and 100+ meter kills with deagles. You have to spend time going down sights, you lose focus of your surroundings, just useless to me. Practiced it for 10 minutes in this game and i can't play with sights anymore.

style preference. i see the appeal of both styles and often mix it up

and correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't there a legendary sight attachment that actually increases damage when zoomed-in???

[John]

引用自 Mirror System X：

引用自 Mister Torgue Flexington：

Damnation

And you cannot put any attachment on a legendary weapon. The strongest shotgun combo I've seen so far was infinite range attach on a mid-end shotgun. With enough reload speed can help a Super 90 exceed the AA's total DPS. The super 90 beats the '870's DPS, though not by a lot, but has some more handling issues and a bit worse ammo efficiency. The other two shotguns (both sawn-offs) are another story, not very easy and comfortable to control, especially since ammo stash costs you 20% reload speed.

Damnation + Pyro + at least 70-80% acc + Tala = absolutely disgusting
For regular shotguns i usually just use the 870, tac feels a "tac" to slow for me, super has too much drop off, AA even less damage than super and runs out of ammo in a few minutes. I have been rather unlucky with infinite range so i don't feel i can rely on it, would be great with a super shotty i'd say.

[StopItStepBro]

To be honest, the only shotgun build I’ve ever found useful was one that was specifically tailored for the sidearm shotgun solely because you can spec it for damage and run the infinite sidearm ammo card and it becomes relatively reliable.

Most other shotgun builds I’ve run, or shotgun specific cards just felt lackluster

[Mister Torgue Flexington]

引用自 StopItStepBro：

To be honest, the only shotgun build I’ve ever found useful was one that was specifically tailored for the sidearm shotgun solely because you can spec it for damage and run the infinite sidearm ammo card and it becomes relatively reliable.

Most other shotgun builds I’ve run, or shotgun specific cards just felt lackluster

then you would have to play as "Mom", since she spawns with one!!! You could do a potential build with "Hoffman" since he spawns with a Tac-14, but i'd replace that with the Remington-870 immediately. You could do a similar build with "Jim", since he mentions he used to drive trucks prior to the Ridden outbreak (and real-life truckers would sometimes have shotguns on them just in case if someone tried to rob and steal whatever they're hauling).

[StopItStepBro]

引用自 Mister Torgue Flexington：

引用自 StopItStepBro：

To be honest, the only shotgun build I’ve ever found useful was one that was specifically tailored for the sidearm shotgun solely because you can spec it for damage and run the infinite sidearm ammo card and it becomes relatively reliable.

Most other shotgun builds I’ve run, or shotgun specific cards just felt lackluster

then you would have to play as "Mom", since she spawns with one!!! You could do a potential build with "Hoffman" since he spawns with a Tac-14, but i'd replace that with the Remington-870 immediately. You could do a similar build with "Jim", since he mentions he used to drive trucks prior to the Ridden outbreak (and real-life truckers would sometimes have shotguns on them just in case if someone tried to rob and steal whatever they're hauling).

it works best with hoffman especially if you run highwayman and a fire damage card because typically you can substitute any sidearm up until the chance you find a belgian. it's a highly dependent build on rng but when you do get it early, man does it melt specials.

[Slurmcanpushers2]

If Tala and you know how to make a nice deck with proper reload speed and minimum of 60 walking around dps, it's by far the best gun build in the game. Nothing is close.

[Mirror System X]

I'll try that thing with Tala. I wondered how to enjoy her more anyway, especially since LMG with her was a bit more mediocre than I expected.
I recently put a '870 in Mom's hands in NM, it was rather fluent. Some screenshots:
https://imgur.com/a/M1XK5hj

One thing that most people don't know is, that like other weapons, shotguns lose damage by range (distance), which is sharpest here, leaving them at only 34% of the original damage if you are far from the enemy, even if your accuracy is otherwise good and all pellets connect.

The '870 is technically recoilless in its base state, which can be maintained by just cards even if you put 90-120% bonus reload speed onto it.
The AA and the Super have real recoil, worse accuracy than the '870 and even lower range than the '870, Tac and Belgian.
Putting reload speed on AA is pretty bruh. With the same luck you can admin reload it with a SMG or a pistol.

The Belgian? Would you imagine that its DPS is actually very close to that of the TAC? And truth is, the Tac can exceed Belgian's capabilities with just one good Range attachment. Belgian has mostly unmatched burst, but the DPS is really mediocre. Sidearm guns have never been miraculous. They are crippled, since they mostly lose to primaries due to lack of attachments or low DPS. Tac has 30-33% less DPS than the '870, but will always be recoilless, no matter the bonus reload speed and its ammo efficiency is surpassed only by that of the Barett. Still, no sight attachment opt for this second type of sawn-off.

引用自 Mister Torgue Flexington：

You could do a similar build with "Jim", since he mentions he used to drive trucks prior to the Ridden outbreak (and real-life truckers would sometimes have shotguns on them just in case if someone tried to rob and steal whatever they're hauling).

No idea what you talking about Jim, but he has bonus reload speed. Reload speed buffs can directly increase the fire rate of the following 7 weapons: '870 shotgun, super 90, Belgian, Tac14, Lockjaw, Barrett M95 & Phoenix.

All in all, if I was always sure that I'd encounter an infinite-range attachment, my B4B gaming 'd be pretty much a '870 90-95% of the time. But it is a really rare attachment.

[Mister Torgue Flexington]

引用自 StopItStepBro：

引用自 Mister Torgue Flexington：

then you would have to play as "Mom", since she spawns with one!!! You could do a potential build with "Hoffman" since he spawns with a Tac-14, but i'd replace that with the Remington-870 immediately. You could do a similar build with "Jim", since he mentions he used to drive trucks prior to the Ridden outbreak (and real-life truckers would sometimes have shotguns on them just in case if someone tried to rob and steal whatever they're hauling).

it works best with hoffman especially if you run highwayman and a fire damage card because typically you can substitute any sidearm up until the chance you find a belgian. it's a highly dependent build on rng but when you do get it early, man does it melt specials.

well I do have the "Pyro" card not only for the increased Fire Damage from Molotovs, but also if I come into possession of the Damnation (double-points if it's the legendary version of the gun), since Burn Damage seems to put a nasty hurtin' on trash Ridden, and does some pretty good damage on the bigger guys too.

[Gesioo]

In my opinion you shouldnt rely on pyro it wont cut for other great choices for cards especially damnation is not 100% from every chests so you will have 1-2 inactive cards the whole game i dont reccoment also backshot because it only works well on breaker/ogre since they have alot of hp and you have time to get the hp then again its only temporary and if your team doesnt have well rested/fit as fiddle or sharice you wont be getting much of you either im using this deck: MAG COUPLERr SCATTERGUN SKILLS AMMO BELTthat gives you 105% reload speed so you can use freely AA12/basic shotguns/belgian even when you have worse version of legendary mods that reduce your reload speed or have negative stacks from chests you wont feel the diffrence then ON YOUR MARK it boost all teammates and replenish some of your ammo so even when you dont have the best team you wont run out of ammo that fast SHELL CARRIER ROLLING THUNDER for extra ammo and shotgun damage VITAMINS for extra hp to counter negative effect of GLASS CANNON i dont recomend others because -15% on shotguns really hurts and -25% stamina for me is a huge problem on few maps/chapters HYPER FOCUSED/KILLER INSTINCTS/THE KNOWLEDGE IS POWER/FRONT SIGHT for 100% weakspot to take full advantage of your damage as front person and some accuracy CONFIDENT KILLER or MARKED FOR DEATH choice is yours GLASS CANNON for pure damage SILVER BULLETS to boost your bullet damage even more with good mods and for utility i put FRESH BANDAGE to recover 15 trauma and hp to full with urgent care you recover 30trauma etc so reduce cost of meds that you would need to spend or your medic if you have 1

[Mirror System X]

引用自 Gesioo：

VITAMINS for extra hp to counter negative effect of GLASS CANNON i dont recomend others because -15% on shotguns really hurts

There are also options such as moto-helmet and hydration pack, the latter being more potent on Tac14 & '870 due to their better ammo efficiency. Helmet with Walker and Glass is almost the same as just 2x 12,5% damage cards, though shotguns is among the last things I want to put on him.

It's funny we might mention all game cards in the end. People gotta experiment and see the best for themselves. Personally I find it more fruitful with Large calliber rounds + silver bullets than glass + health/resist compensation if I go low-range.

I recall Shredder+Marked being a rather strong combo, performing close to a lone Glass, while no compensations needed, but it was for ARs. Idk if each pellet is considered a bullet. This pyro+phosphorous thing seems funky, but idk what are the exact values. Phosphorous acted somewhat poor when I tested it alone. Actually, beter use those flame cards on tough enemies whenever possible, little things don't seem to care - similarly to B4B's bleeding FX.

Keep in mind it's not every weapon great for every char or every map. Those weapons seem comfy mainly on Mom, Jim, Holly, possibly Sharice.. and mb Tala they mentioned above. They'll perform well on act 1-3 and 5, harder to handle in 4 and mb intermediately in act 6.

[Gesioo]

引用自 Mirror System X：

引用自 Gesioo：

VITAMINS for extra hp to counter negative effect of GLASS CANNON i dont recomend others because -15% on shotguns really hurts

There are also options such as moto-helmet and hydration pack, the latter being more potent on Tac14 & '870 due to their better ammo efficiency. Helmet with Walker and Glass is almost the same as just 2x 12,5% damage cards, though shotguns is among the last things I want to put on him.

It's funny we might mention all game cards in the end. People gotta experiment and see the best for themselves. Personally I find it more fruitful with Large calliber rounds + silver bullets than glass + health/resist compensation if I go low-range.

I recall Shredder+Marked being a rather strong combo, performing close to a lone Glass, while no compensations needed, but it was for ARs. Idk if each pellet is considered a bullet. This pyro+phosphorous thing seems funky, but idk what are the exact values. Phosphorous acted somewhat poor when I tested it alone. Actually, beter use those flame cards on tough enemies whenever possible, little things don't seem to care - similarly to B4B's bleeding FX.

Keep in mind it's not every weapon great for every char or every map. Those weapons seem comfy mainly on Mom, Jim, Holly, possibly Sharice.. and mb Tala they mentioned above. They'll perform well on act 1-3 and 5, harder to handle in 4 and mb intermediately in act 6.

That may be true but i still prefer it over large caliber since penetration in reality doesnt do much and shreeder to be fully effective needs its stacks it wont be to great on reeker/stingers you can kill them 2-3 shots so shredder wont be active that much and like i said on no hope i feel the lack of ammo due to using hydration pack that reduce -15% overall ammo i dont put any damage resistance since i think its pointless in shotgun decks and we cant really take jim/walker in dicussion since we are talking about pure deck if someone will take walker/jim then you will still have only deck to think about

[Raft]

引用自 Mister Torgue Flexington：

How good are Shotgun-based Builds?

Shotguns are very good. It's decent in most levels on Acts 1-3. I used a defensive trauma and acid-resistant shotty deck for the Going for Broke achievement (100k+ points) in Trial of the Worm. Played with bots at difficulties: 5.75x (Nightmare III) three times and 10x (No hope II) once. Even wrote a recap of my successful newbie attempt in a guide.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3009111826

引用自 Mister Torgue Flexington：

.....Burn Cards:

Your build/deck does not consist of burn cards. You don't burn them. You keep them after you use them.

Burn cards are things like "Group Hug" (+1 Team Extra Life) and "Dusty Customs: Shotgun" (Grant yourself a higher quality shotgun with random attachments). These are one-time use cards. The card icon has a little thunder in it.

引用自 Mister Torgue Flexington：

"Knowledge is Power" (to see the enemy health bars for the Mutations, so this skill was too important for me to pass up)

This is nice for learning how many hits are required to kill a mutation. And when there are two identical tallboys approaching, it's a good idea to know which one to focus on. But otherwise, you might replace it soon.

I found this link with info on the riddens' hp.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Back4Blood/comments/qa1a4s/any_information_as_to_riddenspecial_health/

引用自 Mister Torgue Flexington：

(NOTE: The reason for keeping "Breakout" and "Second Chance" is pretty much obvious, as the former allows me to free myself from enemy grabs and keep fighting, while the latter pretty much gives me 1 Extra Life [on top of a small HP Boost and a 25% Bleed-Out Resistance] in the case if i'm killed in the middle of a fight, or if i'm caught off-guard by a Tallboy knocking me out-of-bounds for an instant death)

I'd agree on keeping "Breakout". But I think "Second Chance" isn't that useful unless you're playing with bots, or you're playing on a difficulty that disables respawns upon death. I don't use this in any of my custom decks. When playing with bots, I seldom get downed or die - unless it's a wipe. Even if I died, I swap to a bot to continue. When playing with others, I generally get rescued if I die. We can also burn the "Group Hug" card to give an extra life for everyone in the team.

引用自 Mister Torgue Flexington：

"EMT Bag" (to boost the healing stats from "Buckshot Bruiser")
"Buckshot Bruiser" (to regain Temporary Health for each pellet that hits)

I find it weird to see EMT Bag. I don't think it helps with buckshot bruiser. Buckshot bruiser is good though. When I've lost some health to some specials and just used a full magazine of rounds on the boss, I see a huge blue health bar keeping me alive. So I'd definitely keep buckshot bruiser.

引用自 Mister Torgue Flexington：

"Large Caliber Rounds"
"Scattergun Skills" (for the increased reload speed w/shotguns"
"Phosphorous Tipped" (for the chance of lighting a Ridden on fire for the extra damage)
"Shell Carrier" (for the extra ammo capacity & damage)
"Ammo Belt" (for the extra ammo capacity & reload speed)
"Silver Bullets" (for the extra damage & slightly increased bullet range)
"Rolling Thunder" (for the increased movement speed & damage w/shotguns)
...
"Ridden Slayer" (for the extra Weakspot Damage)
"Front Sight Focus" (for the extra Weakspot Damage, Accuracy, Aim Speed, & Recoil Control)
"Cold Brew Coffee" (for the extra Reload Speed, Aim Speed, Weapon Swap Speed, & Use Speed)

These are nice damage/reload cards for shotguns. And I think you have already received good feedback from others in this thread. ADS isn't necessary, especially with shotguns. Hipfire is good. So you can go for cards with stronger effects that disable ADS. Accuracy doesn't have to be high either. A little spread of pellets is ok to kill a bunch of common riddens (instead of just 1 common ridden) that are right in front of you.

I used to run a mostly offense deck like yours. But after several quickplays in nightmare mode with randoms, I noticed that I get downed too often. It is often due to acid, plentiful hordes, lack of healing accessories, and random teammates running out of ammo. So, I had to prioritize. I traded off some offense and mobility cards for defense and utility cards such as amped up (for team healing), scar tissue and hazmat specialist (for acid resistance), on your mark (for team ammo), double grenade pouch (for gauntlet events). Now, I get downed a little less often.

Based on what affects you as you play your matches, you might tweak your build accordingly.

[Mister Torgue Flexington]

引用自 Raft：

引用自 Mister Torgue Flexington：

How good are Shotgun-based Builds?

Shotguns are very good. It's decent in most levels on Acts 1-3. I used a defensive trauma and acid-resistant shotty deck for the Going for Broke achievement (100k+ points) in Trial of the Worm. Played with bots at difficulties: 5.75x (Nightmare III) three times and 10x (No hope II) once. Even wrote a recap of my successful newbie attempt in a guide.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3009111826

引用自 Mister Torgue Flexington：

.....Burn Cards:

Your build/deck does not consist of burn cards. You don't burn them. You keep them after you use them.

Burn cards are things like "Group Hug" (+1 Team Extra Life) and "Dusty Customs: Shotgun" (Grant yourself a higher quality shotgun with random attachments). These are one-time use cards. The card icon has a little thunder in it.

引用自 Mister Torgue Flexington：

"Knowledge is Power" (to see the enemy health bars for the Mutations, so this skill was too important for me to pass up)

This is nice for learning how many hits are required to kill a mutation. And when there are two identical tallboys approaching, it's a good idea to know which one to focus on. But otherwise, you might replace it soon.

I found this link with info on the riddens' hp.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Back4Blood/comments/qa1a4s/any_information_as_to_riddenspecial_health/

引用自 Mister Torgue Flexington：

(NOTE: The reason for keeping "Breakout" and "Second Chance" is pretty much obvious, as the former allows me to free myself from enemy grabs and keep fighting, while the latter pretty much gives me 1 Extra Life [on top of a small HP Boost and a 25% Bleed-Out Resistance] in the case if i'm killed in the middle of a fight, or if i'm caught off-guard by a Tallboy knocking me out-of-bounds for an instant death)

I'd agree on keeping "Breakout". But I think "Second Chance" isn't that useful unless you're playing with bots, or you're playing on a difficulty that disables respawns upon death. I don't use this in any of my custom decks. When playing with bots, I don't die. When playing with others, I generally get rescued if I die. We can burn the "Group Hug" card to give an extra life for everyone in the team too.

引用自 Mister Torgue Flexington：

"EMT Bag" (to boost the healing stats from "Buckshot Bruiser")
"Buckshot Bruiser" (to regain Temporary Health for each pellet that hits)

I find it weird to see EMT Bag. I don't think it helps with buckshot bruiser. Buckshot bruiser is good though. When I've lost some health to some specials and just used a full magazine of rounds on the boss, I see a huge blue health bar keeping me alive. So I'd definitely keep buckshot bruiser.

引用自 Mister Torgue Flexington：

"Large Caliber Rounds"
"Scattergun Skills" (for the increased reload speed w/shotguns"
"Phosphorous Tipped" (for the chance of lighting a Ridden on fire for the extra damage)
"Shell Carrier" (for the extra ammo capacity & damage)
"Ammo Belt" (for the extra ammo capacity & reload speed)
"Silver Bullets" (for the extra damage & slightly increased bullet range)
"Rolling Thunder" (for the increased movement speed & damage w/shotguns)
...
"Ridden Slayer" (for the extra Weakspot Damage)
"Front Sight Focus" (for the extra Weakspot Damage, Accuracy, Aim Speed, & Recoil Control)
"Cold Brew Coffee" (for the extra Reload Speed, Aim Speed, Weapon Swap Speed, & Use Speed)

These are nice damage/reload cards for shotguns. And I think you have already received good feedback from others in this thread. ADS isn't necessary, especially with shotguns. Hipfire is good. So you can go for cards with stronger effects that disable ADS. Accuracy doesn't have to be high either. A little spread of pellets is ok to kill a bunch of common riddens (instead of just 1 common ridden) that are right in front of you.

I used to run a mostly offense deck like yours. But after several quickplays in nightmare mode with randoms, I noticed that I get downed too often. It is often due to acid, plentiful hordes, lack of healing accessories, and random teammates running out of ammo. So, I had to prioritize. I traded off some offense and mobility cards for defense and utility cards such as amped up (for team healing), scar tissue and hazmat specialist (for acid resistance), on your mark (for team ammo), double grenade pouch (for gauntlet events). Now, I get downed a little less often.

Based on what affects you as you play your matches, you might tweak your build accordingly.

well I did tweak the build a little bit during testing, i've replaced a few cards with "Mag Coupler", "Killer's Instinct", and "Hyper Focused" (on top of the already equipped "Ridden Slayer" card). Plus, because "Phosphorous Tipped" and "Pyro" synergize so well together, that combination was too good to pass up (especially when you get your hands on the Damnation)

[Raft]

引用自 Mister Torgue Flexington：

well I did tweak the build a little bit during testing, i've replaced a few cards with "Mag Coupler", "Killer's Instinct", and "Hyper Focused" (on top of the already equipped "Ridden Slayer" card). Plus, because "Phosphorous Tipped" and "Pyro" synergize so well together, that combination was too good to pass up (especially when you get your hands on the Damnation)

I use Mag coupler in my current build too.
Used to have Killer's instinct, hyper focused, and ridden slayer. Replaced them with def cards.

I used phosphorus tipped quite a few times. I think it activates quite often when I unload a full magazine on a boss or tallboy mutation. It lasts only a short time though. I haven't tried using it with pyro. I'm not sure if the math on damage works out (to make it better than other damage cards), but it's nice to set enemies on fire. Commons stop chasing once they're on fire too.