Been almost a year and joining mid game still sucks big giant dong.

[Id3alistic]

Can't pick your card set or anything so you just stuck with bot or whoever's stuff.

[K~Mart_Security™]

It will always be like that, until the next map or in the case that you wipe and have to blow a continue, to choose your character & loadouts.

[⎝⎝💚TOͥNͣNͫY💚⎠⎠]

You are in a middle of a run after all. It is reasonable that this type of mechanic is valid enough to be like this.

[Hobo Bubz]

It's usually better to let the bot finish the level than taking a gamble on someone else's deck.

[Diligent Diamond]

just do the lvl with a basic bot then swap to your character, BUT you are stuck with bot weapons.

[LinkZeppeloyd]

In OP's defense, other games don't have this problem. At least the ones I play. For example, in V2, you join someone's run you... have your stuff.

[Empukris]

It open tons of cheese and abuse although it is minor till they make tiny mistake in their coding then we might see infinite pipe bomb again. So yeah I understand the design behind it but it can probably improved since other game can do it.

[Zheldorg]

Originally posted by ⎛⎝💚TonnyTayYT💚⎠⎞:

You are in a middle of a run after all. It is reasonable that this type of mechanic is valid enough to be like this.

No, not at all. This may sound reasonable in a vacuum, but in practice, where going from session to session when picking up a fast game is a constant occurrence, it leads to a lot of time spent with someone else's deck, and it's not certain that she has any sensible style. This is especially annoying on maps with defenses (Hell's Bells) or an endless event (Bad Seeds) where you won't be as useful due to poorly built cards or decks you don't understand how to play. I don't think there's much reason not to suggest that players change decks, even if they joined later than loading the map, but early in the game, in the hideout or in the first half of the map, by simply prompting them to choose a deck by holding TAB if they don't want to wait for the next map.

[NotForMe]

Unfortunately, this may just be a limitation within Unreal itself, much information about the character stats are stored on the character itself.
Allowing individuals to join, and change cards, would be a process that would require total removal of one player character (even though its controlled by the AI) and replaced with what ever the player chose, would most likely continue to have bugs like before, with certain statistics not being able to be removed.

Probably a whole rework of the code is required to do such a thing.

I believe this is also why when you join a game mid run, cards you buy don't transfer over, that character is completely removed from memory after the round, and a new one is placed in at round start.

And no, its not as simple as when the costume changes when people join, changing static meshes is infinitely easier, than a character which holds a significant amount of information about the current run.


CURRENTLY, if you join at the wrong time, (when the team is loading into a new safe room) it can accidentally keep a 5th character, who wont move, or behave in any way other than having health, and being able to be killed.
And knowing as much as I know about Unreal, and why this would happen in the first place, I came to this conclusion.

Is it possible, yes of course, I can think of half a dozen ways to handle it, but its never as easy as changing a few lines of code, unless you planned for it, and there is no simple way to implement such changes while the run is on going.

They might already have a solution in the works.

[⎝⎝💚TOͥNͣNͫY💚⎠⎠]

Well before you even play, you can just let the bot do the work. Having your own deck in mid game of a run is tough to implement. Like the guy posted above. Either watch the bot or just try out the player's deck and experiment with it at least(you can even check the cards before taking over too), or the devs implement a list of default decks for bots to use if a player leaves and we use that which is the only fix I can think of that works. Another idea is probably to implement placeholder decks for 3 other bots. Players can choose 3 other decks to implement for bots to use; and when a new player joins they see what decks are being used before choosing a bot to control. This is a bit more complicated to implement. Keep in mind he devs are not as big as lets say Activision or anything. They have been working on things since release like a new co-op mode(almost end of the year still no news on it; was announced in their trello). So do not expect anything anytime soon.

[K33nan]

Originally posted by Hubba Bubba:

It's usually better to let the bot finish the level than taking a gamble on someone else's deck.

And that's a sign of bad game design

[Zheldorg]

___What else stupid you offer, instead of the gameplay. Wasting time watching in an already stuffy game. Somehow you don't have to choose whether or not to try other people's decks, that's the point, I would rather try my own decks. As for the default decks, it’s not clear what this fuss would be for, again when there are their own.
___In "Unreal Engine 4" there are no such restrictions, there is a wide range of functionality, especially with C ++. Rather, in TRS, the responsible programmer is an incompetent idiot. As far as I remember, they had experience with CryEngine, why did they change the engine at all if they didn’t pull it.
___They positioned the game as an "AAA" project, and they put a lot of emphasis on it, they set the price tag at $60. But the game looks like a "medium budget game" in development, the so-called "B game", but only with a lot of problems. And the fact that they are a small studio is not an excuse, the problem is their ambitions. Rocstar with the gigantic GTAV project, had a true 3A budget, 1000 employees, surprisingly few problems. Little TRS with little B4B, don't know what they want and how to do it without having 100500 problems.

[NotForMe]

Unreal engine is object based, removing a single object and replacing it with another, while transferring all relevant information to the new object is not an easy process if the information on the character is required to keep the game running.

We as players do not know what information is currently stored on the player character objects, there are many ways to process and transfer information from one object to another.

Why would information be stored on character objects? Player controllers are inconsistent, and storing information on player controllers is an open entry to allowing easy hacks, and while the devs have specifically stated that while there is an AI director, it is dumbed down, so where else would they store current character statistics?

If the devs never planned on it being a thing, they probably didn't begin their code planning for it, and as a result it isn't an easy fix.

Also you can not compare Lua, to C++.

There's a dozen or so other reasons as to why it COULD be difficult to do, especially how unreal manages its game play loop, and not worth the time in a minor update.

To specify, its not impossible, but there are probably better things they were working on.

[Knee]

Originally posted by NotForMe:

Unreal engine is object based, removing a single object and replacing it with another, while transferring all relevant information to the new object is not an easy process if the information on the character is required to keep the game running.

We as players do not know what information is currently stored on the player character objects, there are many ways to process and transfer information from one object to another.

Why would information be stored on character objects? Player controllers are inconsistent, and storing information on player controllers is an open entry to allowing easy hacks, and while the devs have specifically stated that while there is an AI director, it is dumbed down, so where else would they store current character statistics?

If the devs never planned on it being a thing, they probably didn't begin their code planning for it, and as a result it isn't an easy fix.

Also you can not compare Lua, to C++.

There's a dozen or so other reasons as to why it COULD be difficult to do, especially how unreal manages its game play loop, and not worth the time in a minor update.

To specify, its not impossible, but there are probably better things they were working on.

I think it’s a reasonable assumption that they’re not just using a vanilla implementation of some open-source player class. You can add cards to a player at will so one could easily reuse the same process that adds cards to add the deck of a new player.

A lot of what I’m reading here is just a bunch of jargon. You’re not restricted to what the engine gives you. Objects are easily replaceable if the programmer in question knows what a constructor is.

[Limdood]

notable, complaint worthy, though certainly not intolerable issue that changing decks midlevel would introduce:

ever notice that if you lose a player that used a +team accessory slots card, then if you had full accessories, you drop one in the saferoom right away?

Its obnoxious, but at least its in the saferoom, so someone else can grab it or decide what they want to do.

Imagine that happening in the middle of the the "sprint across the bridge" level. You have 2 pipebombs thanks to someone playing with an extra team offensive accessory...and halfway across the bridge, the new player joins or finishes picking their deck and whoops! only 1 pipebomb now! Hope you noticed it or you might have a bad time when you go to use #2!



However. I'd gladly deal with that, if it meant I could spawn into a game and pick my cleaner and deck mid-level, and THEN take over the bot.

The game ALREADY reserves your bot when you load in (if it loads in multiple players, they're listed as bots, but if you mouseclick to change to one of them, you can't take control of it - only the bot you spawned in on). Admittedly REMOVING cards from someone midlevel might cause some issues (what happens when you swap off walker with his +10 team health if someone is at 1-10 hp? do they die? does it just subtract max hp? Do they drop ammo midsprint if someone doesn't have ammo for all anymore?), but as has already been pointed out, adding them is fine.

So...
- join the game
- get assigned a bot-controlled cleaner and see what weapons it has
- press space to take it over, but instead of taking it over, go to a cleaner select menu while the bot keeps fighting
- choose your cleaner and deck
- hit accept - the game removes the old cards (causing whatever problems that entails) and adds the new ones
- You spawn in place the bot with your chosen cleaner, your deck active, and the weapons the bot was holding (yes, losing two-is-one means you'd only have a single weapon. Either suck it up, or have the game recognize that SPECIFIC circumstance and spawn in the chosen cleaner's white quality secondary in that case)

[NotForMe]

Yes, removing cards mid level, would cause issues, bigger ones than you having to use another players deck until the end of the level, and yea, of course they are not using anything standard in unreal, that does not change the fact that it is an object based system, and server level communication has to be the same on a basic level.

Adding to an object is infinitely easier to adapt existing code for, than removing from an object, as there are dependencies in server communication to prevent cheating, you cant just, pull stats off a character out of no where during play, and replace them with another, especially considering that the nature of some character cards change the fundamentals of the level, such as Sharice.

If you haven't noticed, we do not keep any of the cards from a failed level, most likely because the character reverts to a pre everyone in status, that the server recognize as being correct.
This is a feature? sure.

But you also do not get to keep any cards you purchase during your play with a character when you take over even though you as the player used copper earned during play to buy those cards, because when your controller enters the lobby, you overwrite everything, with your character version and cards, nothing is transferred except other object actors associated to that player slot, such as the accessories, and weapons the player had, the effects of cards are not objects, they have no physical presence they modify a character class, a character class which has now been deleted, removed from memory, GONE BYE BYE.

But lets say, they just rip it, barely tested in an update.

In the best situation, everything works great, maybe the players have added stats until the end of the level, when that actor is destroyed, and replaced with a new one on the next map, which adjusted stats on all actors for the card swaps.

And then in high ping situations, a player could be generating false hits on most types of anti cheats, as the new character loaded in and everyone's stats changed around, there would have to be a pause in play, and a confirmation of being ready, to avoid these problems, like there is... when a new level begins.

So once again not easy to implement, they can change object classes and script anything how ever they want, there are fundamental rules with object classes, and communication on a server level, which have to be planned for to avoid. You can go learn about it yourself if you want, there's thousands of videos on you tube about coding, and multiplayer communications, don't need to go too college to learn.

Give them time to get that kind of feature out, and in the mean time.
Just ask the players whose games you joined, if they are okay with having the bot play to the end of the level, instead of you struggling with a random build.
The Bots will get head shots, keep up, use their accessories if they have any for free, provide ammo, call out mutations, and generally do pretty good, can't say the same for some players.

This is basic level communication with other players, you're on a PC, so you've got a keyboard.