Success in this game is based on luck. Change my mind.

[^9[DSS]Dahaka]

I've completed all acts on recruit, it wasn't difficult.
Then I completed all acts on veteran. That felt like realism expert in L4D2, especially on some maps of act 2 and 3.
I attempted nightmare today with a 4 man team. we all had good cards, we've all beaten veteran, so it's not that we went in clueless. The only thing you success is based on, is RNG, a.k.a., blind luck. No matter how good you are, how much you coordinate, when the game throws you burning zombies, or even worse, acid zombies on your first and second map where you dont even have a chance to make your build work, what on earth are you supposed to do? When you get tallboy hordes on the first 2 maps, or exploder hordes, what are you supposed to do? Exploder rushed into the room we camped up in. Exploded, and voila, 4 of us insta incapped, almost from full health.
And are we gonna discuss that you can actually trigger hazards that are so far out on the map that you can't even see them?
I know some people have succeeded and completed nightmare mode. But how many?
Did you really make a game with only 3 difficulties, and locked skins behind one that can only be beaten by the 0.1% of the playerbase?

To be clear, I don't mind difficulty, I love the dark souls franchise, I've beaten all games, I've gotten all achievements on L4D2, can easily play realism versus, but in all those games, it takes SKILL to succeed. They are fair. How is it fair that I need infinite retries until I get lucky? And why is success in an FPS game mostly based on luck? Might as well make us roll for initiative before shooting our guns.

What do you think fellow players? Let's discuss.

[Scyris]

I kinda agree with this, alot of it is based on rng, Certain special combinations are much worse than others. Friends and I have had many moments where we set alarms off with no idea how as there was nothing on screen. Some of the specials are complete bs as well, Hockers being a prime one, Once they shoot at you, I swear that stuff is homing, as even if you break into a sprint after it shoots to the side, it curves to hit you. The projectile needs to be slowed to half its current speed so the player can at least have a chance in hell at avoiding it. It also could use a QTE thing so you have a chance to break out of it. As far as I can tell it'll drain you from full health to dead if no one helps you, or you lack the card/item to get out.

Another special I hate is the puking zombie, not only does it have damn near sniper rifle range, it slows you, making it even harder to get out of it, and if you do? the damn thing can turn while puking and just coats you again. The piles on the ground also last for way to long.

The game could use a sidestep dodge move to help with avoiding hocker/puker projectiles.

Tallboy/bruisers, Their attacks seem to have a way bigger hitbox than it looks, and if they start that overhead swing your pretty much getting hit, as I've not been able to run out of it, and if I do they just turn and still hit me.

Crushers are just annoying period, there is pretty much no way to dodge their grab, if it gets close to you, your pretty much dead unless a party member helps you quick, which with their insane hp pools they have, can mean your going to take way more damage than you should.

[Ryvaku]

Yes yes Dark Souls was difficult, but not worth comparing too for difficulty sense.

This game is a shooter roguelike where you get stronger as you progress and RNG for the enemies and loot. It strikes me more of a roguelike which I enjoy.
I can't really share a opinion since I haven't tried nightmare yet, but as for hazards in the game I don't really trigger them. Unless you have fog or beyond zero awareness. You can see them from car alarms, doors, crows and sleepers.

[APN34Z]

Opprinnelig skrevet av TheCaptainGhost:

omg game has rng element oh no its not about the skill i am so good at fps games i beat l4d, omg there is cards it all about cards and not the skills, i am fps veteran i played fps games i should be able to win veteran omg...

🤣😆😂

[DAWN OF THE DEAD]

People forget they have bullet penetration, shoot doors calls it rng, jeees look at battle royal games, they also have rng element still somehow people play them enjoy them and you need skills to win but sure, we have l4d veterans who think l4d its some sort of hardcore shooter and entitles them ability to beat nightmare/veteran without basic awareness and understanding of game mechanics.

[Scyris]

Opprinnelig skrevet av TheCaptainGhost:

People forget they have bullet penetration, shoot doors calls it rng, jeees look at battle royal games, they also have rng element still somehow people play them enjoy them and you need skills to win but sure, we have l4d veterans who think l4d its some sort of hardcore shooter and entitles them ability to beat nightmare/veteran without basic awareness and understanding of game mechanics.

I've never played L4D myself, Took a look at it and deemed it not worth buying due to how simplistic the gameplay looked. Only reason I bothered with B4B was it was on xbox game pass for pc, which I happened to have had anyway for other games. Otherwise i'd have not bothered with it just like I never did with L4D. FPS games are almost always never worth the price tag.

[^9[DSS]Dahaka]

Opprinnelig skrevet av TheCaptainGhost:

People forget they have bullet penetration, shoot doors calls it rng, jeees look at battle royal games, they also have rng element still somehow people play them enjoy them and you need skills to win but sure, we have l4d veterans who think l4d its some sort of hardcore shooter and entitles them ability to beat nightmare/veteran without basic awareness and understanding of game mechanics.

Yes, i can be very aware of a flock of birds that is completely hidden underwater. Or a flock of birds that is on the other side of the map behind one ogre and 100 other infected. I can also be aware of some random alarmed door, cause in nightmare at least half the doors are alarmed, and i can also see through the fog, cause i'm godlike and got secret xray vision.
What a joke. Plus you need to work on your english and your reading/comprehending skills, I never said I should be able to beat veteran, I said I HAVE BEATEN VETERAN. What I'm discussing is that even if you got skills, unless you are in that 0.1%, you aint beating nightmare or even certain veteran maps, if the RNG says so.

[DAWN OF THE DEAD]

Success on veteran is also rng based not on skill prob why some can beat it and some asking to nerf. Same fk logic

[^9[DSS]Dahaka]

Opprinnelig skrevet av TheCaptainGhost:

Success on veteran is also rng based not on skill prob why some can beat it and some asking to nerf. Same fk logic

It is RNG based, even on recruit its RNG based. This is exactly the problem, IMHO. That is exactly what I'm trying to discuss here. I don't want anything nerfed, I want everything to be more fair. Big difference.

[lockwoodx]

I seem to remember early tanks and witches guarding the saferoom door being "unfair"

[DAWN OF THE DEAD]

You playing rng based game on nightmare where game basically says you will lose and you want it to be more "fair"? Idk feels like rng is acceptable, until you can personally overcome it, tho when skill gap reaches your limit its unfair. Maybe you don't like rng which is no problem its subjective, but this game has rng and you want devs to adjust it to your personal preference because on nightmare is tooo muuccchhhh. Idk dont play games based on rng

[Matty Knacker]

Opprinnelig skrevet av ^9DSSDahaka:

Opprinnelig skrevet av TheCaptainGhost:

Success on veteran is also rng based not on skill prob why some can beat it and some asking to nerf. Same fk logic

It is RNG based, even on recruit its RNG based. This is exactly the problem, IMHO. That is exactly what I'm trying to discuss here. I don't want anything nerfed, I want everything to be more fair. Big difference.

That's not what rougelite are and b4b is a rougelite

[^9[DSS]Dahaka]

Opprinnelig skrevet av lockwoodx:

I seem to remember early tanks and witches guarding the saferoom door being "unfair"

Yeah, except you can shotgun blast the witch, or one person sacrifices himself so the others can escape, and you can straight up kite around not 1, but even 3-4 tanks on the map. So no, it was not unfair. Try throwing in 8 tanks at the same time in L4D2 while the players are on the parish bridge. Plus a random card where every common killed generates a spitter puddle, plus all 8 tanks now have triple the HP. That's B4B for you. Of course you can get lucky and get almost no specials. But why is that a good thing to be dependent on luck so much?

Opprinnelig skrevet av TheCaptainGhost:

You playing rng based game on nightmare where game basically says you will lose and you want it to be more "fair"? Idk feels like rng is acceptable, until you can personally overcome it, tho when skill gap reaches your limit its unfair. Maybe you don't like rng which is no problem its subjective, but this game has rng and you want devs to adjust it to your personal preference because on nightmare is tooo muuccchhhh. Idk dont play games based on rng

Well you see, problem is, I was promised a "L4D2 like game" from "the makers of L4D2" and while I knew it's going to be a vastly different game, I could never imagine they would make success based on RNG, instead of skill. Nobody told me. So I bought the game. And of course I didn't realise the fact till I was way over two hours of gameplay. So yeah, if this was called casino of blood or something along the lines, I would probably suspect that i'd have to like and play by the roll of the dice. The way it was advertised, I assumed and I quote "Infinite replayability" It was safe to assume it's going to be replayable like L4D2, not a game that forces you to replay it countless time until you get lucky.
I still don't know what skillgap you are talking about. Now tell me, are you able to start with 1 card, and get attacked by 8 specials right as you leave a saferoom, while all commons generate huge pools of acid when killed and progress? Can you? Or are you just going to fail 100 times, till you get favorable RNG? This is my problem. Make it more skillbased. Or let me pick and choose cards according to what the AI hits me with. That would require skill.

[djcarey]

Those cards are addicting to achieve.. that's why i love this game.. spend a 1000 on decks a day just customizing things to suit you in the next level act.

[Matty Knacker]

When did they say this was a left 4 dead game? yes its from the makers of left 4 dead but at no point where they like this is left 4 dead with a different name
just look at the pvp trailer that alone shows how different it is from l4d

[RNG_Wizard]

This is the nature of games like these - cooperative games with random special/disabler spawns. B4B's spawns/specials are definitely overtuned right now with how a run can go from completely calm to a hopeless wipe in a single second without warning, I'll say that for sure. However, even if/when specials get tweaked to not be so overbearing, keep in mind that you can mostly compensate for bad luck with experience and skill. Some runs will be easier or harder than others, that's the nature of this genre. It's up to you to increase your skill level to even that curve out, because bad players will still lose even with good RNG.

Opprinnelig skrevet av Matty Knacker:

Opprinnelig skrevet av ^9DSSDahaka:

It is RNG based, even on recruit its RNG based. This is exactly the problem, IMHO. That is exactly what I'm trying to discuss here. I don't want anything nerfed, I want everything to be more fair. Big difference.

That's not what rougelite are and b4b is a rougelite

I mean, calling B4B a roguelite isn't as accurate as calling it a cooperative fps. Any elements B4B has that are roguelite qualities are more so to do with the cooperative shooter staples - levels, items, builds, etc. B4B is closer to Payday, Vermintide, or L4D than it is to Risk of Rain, Crypt of the Necrodancer, or The Binding of Isaac.

Opprinnelig skrevet av Matty Knacker:

When did they say this was a left 4 dead game? yes its from the makers of left 4 dead but at no point where they like this is left 4 dead with a different name
just look at the pvp trailer that alone shows how different it is from l4d

Left4Dead
Back4Blood

That's an immediate thing right there, the names are already almost identical. Then there's also the part with the overlapping studios, the fact that almost every piece of media/branding mentions L4D, the toting of B4B's "Competitive Multiplayer" in marketing which is to this day arguably L4D2's biggest strength, the act/chapter system functioning similarly, the near identical inventory, the fact that it's a cooperative fps zombie game...

Left 4 Dead is plastered all over this game. It's absolutely everywhere. On Steam, in news pages, on youtube videos and other media, on their website, you name it.