Rosselsprung tips

[Name]

Any tips on how to play this division successfully in 10v10? I’m having a tough time with the infantry card choices. I felt like Kadetten should perform like a jr Maro squad but in deep forests I find they run out of ammo in their magazines too quick and undergo a painfully slow reload cycle.

[Mr Cheese73]

Originally posted by Tardigrado el oso ovalado:

Originally posted by Mr Cheese73:

I can name far more than three, virtually all of the claims you have made are entirely wrong. To name three since you really like to move the goalpost:
"the MG 42 has less suppression" you didn't even know how to read stat cards lol
"Commando is OP" ok then use Brandenbergers "oh but they're not stronger than Forcemen" you say which is verifiably false.
and my personal favorite wehraboo cope "the KT is weak!" as you let it sit there for 10 minutes and act suprised when it gets mortared for the entirety of B phase

Branderburgs aren't stronger than forcemen tho, both the HE forcemen and the AT forcemen do the same job but better, either with improved cqc due to automatic rifles or due to AT weapons, which removes the bigger weakness of branderburgs, light vehicles. And the KT is indeed weak, in the sense that, unless you focus on its raw stats ignoring price and deck limitations, it is a big expensive unit that can be killed easily and rarily pays off, unlike cheaper and more lethal tanks like the is2

anywhere further out than 100m the Brandeberger wins against Forcemen. I have yet to find a unit that actually beats Brandenbergers 100m+. The lack of an AT option for em is kinda bad but at the same time just embed a panzerschrek with em.
For Konigs their price is hefty, yeah, they're a heavy tank and I expect em to be expensive. Having said that tho as Lith said they literally kill 3 medium tnaks and boom, neutral elixir trade. A Konigs can shut down any open field in the game, even if it doesn't kill 8 morbillion T-34s its presence disrupts gameplay for many decks. The IS-2 is better for chunking infantry with its bigger gun but loses out on the AT capabilities of the Konigs. The 70 point difference between a KT and IS-2 gives you armor to ignore the IS-2 past 1KM and hte pen to just pop IS-2s from max range. Past 1KM literally no tank stands up to the Konigs unlike the IS-2 at 1KM that has a fair chance of being penned by a Panther, an extremely available tank.

[Odysseus]

Originally posted by Mr Cheese73:

Originally posted by Odysseus:

"Virtually all of the claims you made are entirely wrong"
And yet... you cant even name 5.
"move the goalpost"
have yet to name a single time this was done.

you literally just moved the goalpost lmao.

That's not what moving the goalposts means. Moving the goalposts would be if you demonstrated I was incorrect about something and then I retroactively stated that whatever I was wrong about wasnt relevant anyway.

Its also funny to me you didnt even address my post LOL.

We are all still waiting for you to quote the post where ANYONE said "The MG42 has less suppression".
we may still be waiting for a while.

[Odysseus]

Originally posted by Mr Cheese73:

Originally posted by Tardigrado el oso ovalado:

Branderburgs aren't stronger than forcemen tho, both the HE forcemen and the AT forcemen do the same job but better, either with improved cqc due to automatic rifles or due to AT weapons, which removes the bigger weakness of branderburgs, light vehicles. And the KT is indeed weak, in the sense that, unless you focus on its raw stats ignoring price and deck limitations, it is a big expensive unit that can be killed easily and rarily pays off, unlike cheaper and more lethal tanks like the is2

anywhere further out than 100m the Brandeberger wins against Forcemen. I have yet to find a unit that actually beats Brandenbergers 100m+. The lack of an AT option for em is kinda bad but at the same time just embed a panzerschrek with em.
For Konigs their price is hefty, yeah, they're a heavy tank and I expect em to be expensive. Having said that tho as Lith said they literally kill 3 medium tnaks and boom, neutral elixir trade. A Konigs can shut down any open field in the game, even if it doesn't kill 8 morbillion T-34s its presence disrupts gameplay for many decks. The IS-2 is better for chunking infantry with its bigger gun but loses out on the AT capabilities of the Konigs. The 70 point difference between a KT and IS-2 gives you armor to ignore the IS-2 past 1KM and hte pen to just pop IS-2s from max range. Past 1KM literally no tank stands up to the Konigs unlike the IS-2 at 1KM that has a fair chance of being penned by a Panther, an extremely available tank.

Firstly, Forcemen beating Brandenburgers at sub 100m means Forcemen are STRONGER than Brandenburgers at sub 100m.
Secondly, anyone with a sniper rifle will dunk on Brandenburgers beyond 750m.
Thirdly, Brandenburgers and Forcemen arent fighting each other, they are fighting infantry and vehicles and Brandenburgers are at a huge disadvantage because they have no AT.
"Embed a panzershreck with them"
Rosselsprung can bring a maximum of 8 panzershrecks.
Forcemen can fulfill more roles than Brandenburgers.
No one is running medium tanks into King Tigers. King Tigers are too expensive for how easily they can be neutralized as a force. They can be destroyed easily by aircraft and light artillery.
IS-2 is faster, insta deletes at close range, and is better for infantry support.
You keep comparing King Tiger and IS-2 or Forcemen and Brandenburgers to each other directly, these assets rarely fight each other head on. They are fighting a multitude of other units and the IS-2 is better at being a heavy tank than the King Tiger. Forcemen are better at being elite infantry than Brandenburgers.

[Odysseus]

Originally posted by Lithenton:

Originally posted by Tardigrado el oso ovalado:

Branderburgs aren't stronger than forcemen tho, both the HE forcemen and the AT forcemen do the same job but better, either with improved cqc due to automatic rifles or due to AT weapons, which removes the bigger weakness of branderburgs, light vehicles. And the KT is indeed weak, in the sense that, unless you focus on its raw stats ignoring price and deck limitations, it is a big expensive unit that can be killed easily and rarily pays off, unlike cheaper and more lethal tanks like the is2

I mean all a Konigstiger has to do to pay itself off is kill 4 medium tanks that are 80+ points... that's not exactly hard to do when Shermans and T-34's are so readily available for the allies... just saying.

you are assuming allied players will drive their tanks forward into superior armor. This basically never happens. No one drives into an engagement they are certain to lose.

[Tardigrado el oso ovalado]

Originally posted by Mr Cheese73:

Originally posted by Tardigrado el oso ovalado:

Branderburgs aren't stronger than forcemen tho, both the HE forcemen and the AT forcemen do the same job but better, either with improved cqc due to automatic rifles or due to AT weapons, which removes the bigger weakness of branderburgs, light vehicles. And the KT is indeed weak, in the sense that, unless you focus on its raw stats ignoring price and deck limitations, it is a big expensive unit that can be killed easily and rarily pays off, unlike cheaper and more lethal tanks like the is2

anywhere further out than 100m the Brandeberger wins against Forcemen. I have yet to find a unit that actually beats Brandenbergers 100m+. The lack of an AT option for em is kinda bad but at the same time just embed a panzerschrek with em.
For Konigs their price is hefty, yeah, they're a heavy tank and I expect em to be expensive. Having said that tho as Lith said they literally kill 3 medium tnaks and boom, neutral elixir trade. A Konigs can shut down any open field in the game, even if it doesn't kill 8 morbillion T-34s its presence disrupts gameplay for many decks. The IS-2 is better for chunking infantry with its bigger gun but loses out on the AT capabilities of the Konigs. The 70 point difference between a KT and IS-2 gives you armor to ignore the IS-2 past 1KM and hte pen to just pop IS-2s from max range. Past 1KM literally no tank stands up to the Konigs unlike the IS-2 at 1KM that has a fair chance of being penned by a Panther, an extremely available tank.

you are thinking on forcemen in heavy cover vs forcemen in heavy cover at +500m. In no cover stuff like forcemen HE or even Forcemen bazooka will win or draw vs them due to faster burst of DPS vs acc build up on MG-42. On top of that, lack of AT on branderburgers isn't kind of bad, but a huge weakspot since no div with them has enough AT or tanks to compensate. For the IS-2 you ignore its 12 AP dmg per shot, a IS-2 can do the same job dennial as a KT, but each time an opponent gets into LoS it will one shot stuff. And the comment of panther having a fair chance vs IS-2 really shows lack of info there, since a IS-2 1944 has a +95% win chance vs a panther at 1000m. Even going to the extreme, it has around a 80% chance... vs 2 panther Gs at the same time at 1000m.
On top of it, the huge price of the KT makes it way weaker vs andryushas and other rocket arty, which has no difficulty killing that "area denial". So no, the KT isn't a menace or something to worry about in a serious game, specially since as you said, it won't kill enough to compensate its price before a andryusha or another heavy arty kills it

[Mr Cheese73]

That's not what moving the goalposts means. Moving the goalposts would be if you demonstrated I was incorrect about something and then I retroactively stated that whatever I was wrong about wasnt relevant anyway.

Its also funny to me you didnt even address my post LOL.

We are all still waiting for you to quote the post where ANYONE said "The MG42 has less suppression".
we may still be waiting for a while. [/quote]
you asked for 3 examples, I gave them, you then bragged that I 'couldn't name 5 examples", that is textbook definition of goalpost moving. If you're gonna argue atleast be transparent about your scummery instead of moving the goalpost when accused of moving the goalpost

[Mr Cheese73]

Originally posted by Odysseus:

Firstly, Forcemen beating Brandenburgers at sub 100m means Forcemen are STRONGER than Brandenburgers at sub 100m.
Secondly, anyone with a sniper rifle will dunk on Brandenburgers beyond 750m.
Thirdly, Brandenburgers and Forcemen arent fighting each other, they are fighting infantry and vehicles and Brandenburgers are at a huge disadvantage because they have no AT.
"Embed a panzershreck with them"
Rosselsprung can bring a maximum of 8 panzershrecks.
Forcemen can fulfill more roles than Brandenburgers.
No one is running medium tanks into King Tigers. King Tigers are too expensive for how easily they can be neutralized as a force. They can be destroyed easily by aircraft and light artillery.
IS-2 is faster, insta deletes at close range, and is better for infantry support.
You keep comparing King Tiger and IS-2 or Forcemen and Brandenburgers to each other directly, these assets rarely fight each other head on. They are fighting a multitude of other units and the IS-2 is better at being a heavy tank than the King Tiger. Forcemen are better at being elite infantry than Brandenburgers.

ONCE MORE STARTING FROM THE TOP:
yeah neither are CQC infantry, but majority of infantry engagements happen well outside of 100m. Brandenbergers do not lose to snipers, especially not after the sniper nerf. The only sniper squad that might win is the German Fallschirm who are literally panzergrens with a sniper embedded in em lol. And if ur Brandens are getting outranged that's just a skill diff, place a Pz IV there if ur problem is snipers lol

next up, yes embed a panzerschrek in em. One of my highest performing units is hte Romanian Vanatori De Care, and panzerschrek unit because panzershreks, bazookas, etc are super good at AT and you only ever really need 8 of em.

Forcemen (with bazooka) fulfill exactly one more roll than Brandens, an easily covered roll too.

Medium tanks are all that majority of decks have access to, being able to shut them down with no counterplay shuts down entire decks. Please go play a deck other than 16th Panzer. KTs also can't be easily killed unless you're a monkey leaving it unsupported in the middle of ♥♥♥♥ and all so once more: skill dif.

"IS-2 wins at CQC" yeah I said that then dont let it into CQC. Anything past 750m is an almost gurenteed win against an IS-2, and considering the 2K range of both tanks a favorable range is more likely with the KT than the IS-2.

lastly saying that the two rarely fight eachother is objectively wrong. The couple of times I've played 16th Panzer I have actively hunted IS-2s with my KT because that's what it's made to do. As for Frocemen v Brandens while rare it has happened, and the Brandens win handily. Most of that rarity comes from German mains being too scared to play Rossel and so half their team is 16th Panzer or some flavor of Fallschrim.

[Mr Cheese73]

Originally posted by Tardigrado el oso ovalado:

you are thinking on forcemen in heavy cover vs forcemen in heavy cover at +500m. In no cover stuff like forcemen HE or even Forcemen bazooka will win or draw vs them due to faster burst of DPS vs acc build up on MG-42. On top of that, lack of AT on branderburgers isn't kind of bad, but a huge weakspot since no div with them has enough AT or tanks to compensate. For the IS-2 you ignore its 12 AP dmg per shot, a IS-2 can do the same job dennial as a KT, but each time an opponent gets into LoS it will one shot stuff. And the comment of panther having a fair chance vs IS-2 really shows lack of info there, since a IS-2 1944 has a +95% win chance vs a panther at 1000m. Even going to the extreme, it has around a 80% chance... vs 2 panther Gs at the same time at 1000m.
On top of it, the huge price of the KT makes it way weaker vs andryushas and other rocket arty, which has no difficulty killing that "area denial". So no, the KT isn't a menace or something to worry about in a serious game, specially since as you said, it won't kill enough to compensate its price before a andryusha or another heavy arty kills it

no, cover doesn't play into this, Forcemen just lose to Brandens at anything higher than 100m, and even within 100m Brandens only lose by a small amount. Like I said the AT is nice, but just slap a panzershrek in there and oh look AT. Accuracy buildup doesn't matter when even missed shots pin targets and infantry combat is just who can pin the other first.

As for ignoring the IS-2s 12 damage, I didn't, it doesn't come into play unless the IS-2 is within 1000m (more likely 750m) of a KT, meanwhile at its max range the KT can pen the IS-2 with a roughly 40% pen chance iirc. While both deny the KT does it much better since it is literally immune to conventional combat. The air and arty "spam" that wehraboos fear so much is literally the only option people have and it requires you to either not have any AA or not move the KT for a significant time. The KT is no weaker to rocket arty than an IS-2 or anything else, if anything the IS-2 should fear rocket arty more since half of the German decks get good rocket arty.

Lastly the two Panthers isn't optional but it is an option against an IS-2, can you name a similar option to counter a KT?

Please go play allies and actually get some experience as them before coping about the KT

[Tardigrado el oso ovalado]

Originally posted by Mr Cheese73:

Originally posted by Tardigrado el oso ovalado:

you are thinking on forcemen in heavy cover vs forcemen in heavy cover at +500m. In no cover stuff like forcemen HE or even Forcemen bazooka will win or draw vs them due to faster burst of DPS vs acc build up on MG-42. On top of that, lack of AT on branderburgers isn't kind of bad, but a huge weakspot since no div with them has enough AT or tanks to compensate. For the IS-2 you ignore its 12 AP dmg per shot, a IS-2 can do the same job dennial as a KT, but each time an opponent gets into LoS it will one shot stuff. And the comment of panther having a fair chance vs IS-2 really shows lack of info there, since a IS-2 1944 has a +95% win chance vs a panther at 1000m. Even going to the extreme, it has around a 80% chance... vs 2 panther Gs at the same time at 1000m.
On top of it, the huge price of the KT makes it way weaker vs andryushas and other rocket arty, which has no difficulty killing that "area denial". So no, the KT isn't a menace or something to worry about in a serious game, specially since as you said, it won't kill enough to compensate its price before a andryusha or another heavy arty kills it

no, cover doesn't play into this, Forcemen just lose to Brandens at anything higher than 100m, and even within 100m Brandens only lose by a small amount. Like I said the AT is nice, but just slap a panzershrek in there and oh look AT. Accuracy buildup doesn't matter when even missed shots pin targets and infantry combat is just who can pin the other first.

As for ignoring the IS-2s 12 damage, I didn't, it doesn't come into play unless the IS-2 is within 1000m (more likely 750m) of a KT, meanwhile at its max range the KT can pen the IS-2 with a roughly 40% pen chance iirc. While both deny the KT does it much better since it is literally immune to conventional combat. The air and arty "spam" that wehraboos fear so much is literally the only option people have and it requires you to either not have any AA or not move the KT for a significant time. The KT is no weaker to rocket arty than an IS-2 or anything else, if anything the IS-2 should fear rocket arty more since half of the German decks get good rocket arty.

Lastly the two Panthers isn't optional but it is an option against an IS-2, can you name a similar option to counter a KT?

Please go play allies and actually get some experience as them before coping about the KT

Tell me you don't know to play allies without telling me you don't know how to play allies

[Odysseus]

Originally posted by Mr Cheese73:

That's not what moving the goalposts means. Moving the goalposts would be if you demonstrated I was incorrect about something and then I retroactively stated that whatever I was wrong about wasnt relevant anyway.

Its also funny to me you didnt even address my post LOL.

We are all still waiting for you to quote the post where ANYONE said "The MG42 has less suppression".
we may still be waiting for a while.

you asked for 3 examples, I gave them, you then bragged that I 'couldn't name 5 examples", that is textbook definition of goalpost moving. If you're gonna argue atleast be transparent about your scummery instead of moving the goalpost when accused of moving the goalpost [/quote]
I actually asked for 5, then lowered the number to 3, then restated 5, every time you failed to mention where I was wrong/incorrect, you must be living in fantasy land because we are still waiting for you to quote the post where I said "MG42s have less suppression"
You are literally making up examples because you are so thoroughly out of touch.
Commandos are overpowered. I was not wrong on this.
You said I claimed the KT was weak.
Again, please quote the post where this was said. No one actually said this, not me, not anyone else, you are making this up. The only time the KT was ever mentioned was when stating its overpriced and doesnt offer 290 pts worth of value. Its not weak, but its not a game changing unit like Commandos.

You are literally having a break with reality.

[Mr Cheese73]

Originally posted by Tardigrado el oso ovalado:

Tell me you don't know to play allies without telling me you don't know how to play allies

You of all people shouldn't be saying that

[Mr Cheese73]

Originally posted by Odysseus:

I actually asked for 5,
then lowered the number to 3,
then restated 5,

that is literally moving the goalpost, I dared to entertain ur demands just for you to say "nuh-uh". You are insatiably coping and refuse to accept that you're wrong

Originally posted by Odysseus:

You are literally having a break with reality.

you should say this while looking in a mirror

[Mr Cheese73]

Originally posted by Odysseus:

Forcemen and Brandenburgers (grenade variants) both do 3.7 damage in total
Damage 100m and closer
Forcemen: 3.7
Brandenburger: 2.5
Suppression 100m and closer
Forcemen: 82
Brandenburgers: 84
Didnt you say Forcemen did half the suppression???
Damage at 500m (the range of their rifles)
Forcemen: 2.2
Brandenburgers 2.1
Suppression at 500m
Forcemen: 59
Brandenburgers: 55
Forcemen have higher suppression at this range where suppression matters more.
Forcemen guns do not go beyond 600m. The only "advantage" these CQC specialized CLOSE QUARTERS COMBAT troops have is 150m of range at a maximum range engagement.

Oh also since u keep asking for a source on your own words here it is. You didn't explicitly say MG 42 is bad but you did effectively say it by saying that Forcemen win at any range due to MG42 having low suppression, and you were even wrong at that because you didn't know how stat cards work

[Outdated]

look guys this is a game and that means there has to be a proper risk reward balance.
meaning a unit like a KT needs to be both able to fail and to be super effective.
Both things are definetly the case, for example a badly placed KT fails by default because it's slow and takes forever to return it's costs.

the broken stuff is the things that are basically guranteed to pay off.

[Lithenton]

Originally posted by Odysseus:

Originally posted by Lithenton:

I mean all a Konigstiger has to do to pay itself off is kill 4 medium tanks that are 80+ points... that's not exactly hard to do when Shermans and T-34's are so readily available for the allies... just saying.

you are assuming allied players will drive their tanks forward into superior armor. This basically never happens. No one drives into an engagement they are certain to lose.

Are you suggesting that Axis players are unaware that they can use their Konigstigers to actually push forward?

What's the point of dumping 290pts for the most expensive piece of armour in the game if your not actually going to use it?

I'm sorry but when I play Axis, which is 50% of the time if I have a Konigstiger to use... I'm USING IT not having it still so artillery can just batter it and I would assume that most other players who play Axis divisions with KT's are also not so stupid.