Soviet 120mm mortars are pointless

[MefistoSV]

4 120mm mortars at 3000-4000m spent all their ammo in attempt to kill single pack 40 gun. unsuccessfully.. 3 82mm mortar where able to achieve the same in 1-2 volley from ~2500m.

[ChargingSnail]

The 120mm dispression is a little too big.

[MefistoSV]

At glance in game it is about 300m radius at 4000 and 400m at 6000.
According to US study on 120m mortars first of all dispersion is not flat but normal.
It also found that with account to all kinds of factors 62% of shell should land within 60m of centre and 99% within 180m at max range of 7200m.
So yeah dispersion is a bit too big. I think even simple change of hit distribution from flat to normal should considerably boost accuracy against discovered targets.

[Scaristotle]

I can't confirm this, because I dislike mortars, but it's my understanding that mortars have a hidden optimum range. So if you are firing at max range, the dispersion will indeed be large. Based on memory of a reddit post, I believe the optimal range for 120mm mortars is somewhere around 1200-1800 meters and near that sweet spot your dispersion should be better. Realistically this makes sense, as mortars you take closer to your enemy and blast them to pieces -- if you want to kill indiscriminately at range, I suggest artillery and radios.

In the rare events that I do use mortars, I find it is immensely valuable to spend the extra points to give them a transport with a machine gun, so they can load back up and relocate. This way you can keep them out of the action, but close enough to matter.

Also, it's my opinion that mortars are more or less primarily to supress the enemy and force them to move. Just a safe way reach out and touch that stationary gun. I mean, I can do this far more reliably with a single 105mm howitzer and a leader unit but mortars shave off valuable travel time -- it's a quick response solution that isn't mean to be balls on accurate and is more or less all about the chaos they create for the opponent

Add.: Speaking of that reddit post, just Google "Steel Division 2 Mortar Guide." It's a decent read with "tested" numbers.

[MefistoSV]

Originally posted by Scaristotle:

Realistically this makes sense, as mortars you take closer to your enemy and blast them to pieces

Realistically you want to be as far from enemy as physically possible, it applies to artillery, all other weapons and solders. Mortars have relatively low range not because they somehow where designed to be short ranged but because they where meant to be light and man portable unlike normal artillery. Low range is a compromise and a disadvantage.

Weapons becoming cotton ball throwers after some arbitrary range is just a bad game design and completely unrealistic.

Guide you've mentioned just confirms that 120mm have worse accuracy then 82mm at every range. Why would you want higher cost, less ammo, worse accuracy weapon? max range is just irrelevant as it is akin to throwing supply trucks at enemy

[Herr Robert]

My impression is also that 120mm mortars are useless. I rarely see them used by high level players in 1v1.

[TheMeInTeam]

Even as a several day beginner, 120mm mortars seem pretty bad. Not just from the reddit guide, but trying various artillery pieces myself.

I am on board with the guide preferring the 60mm, but those aren't nearly as common as 81mm. 1800 range indirect is often (but not always) sufficient and the dispersion is tight, so you suppress the thing you point it at. The real draw though is calling in several and tabbing through to send them locking down entire areas with a combination of smoke long range LoS and blasting buildings/forests. This is a lot faster and more practical when you're paying 40 per piece than 60 or 80.

Soviet 800m 50mms are also greatly appreciated, though even the 540m range one has utility given that it costs less than most infantry. There are a lot of forest gaps and building LoS gaps less than that, and it can SOMETIMES still make smoke plays at that short range.

[ruojility]

non-radio 120mm mortars are only good at deploying smoke and area suppression.
they are very deadly if they hit tho.

[Name]

Some mortars have specific uses. The smaller the caliber, the more accurate the shot will be, especially when paired with a corrected shot. try using 81mm or smaller mortars. I use 120mm mostly for large areas of forest I need to suppress infantry in. Not really for killing.

[Munchy Ham]

They added some radio 120s but I haven't tried them out yet. But from experience mortars tend to function well at much closer ranges than advertised. I tend to prefer artillery for that reason as mortars require a bit more attention.

[Complex Strategy]

In general 120mm mortars just have to much spread to be useful. The only ones worth using are those with radio as once that is going they get way better. Otherwise stick with 81mm or go to howitzers.

[Shortpower]

Originally posted by Catharsis:

Originally posted by Complex Strategy:

In general 120mm mortars just have to much spread to be useful. The only ones worth using are those with radio as once that is going they get way better. Otherwise stick with 81mm or go to howitzers.

You can just add a cheap leader unit near the mortars and have radio integrated in right? Or does that only work with artillery leaders? I know that the artillery leaders improve acc by 25% but not with mortars, though they do grant the radio trait. But inf leaders should grant the radio trait as well right???

Mortars don't inherit radio. Not even with artillery leaders, but yes it's only artillery leaders that give radio to *real* artillery standard inf/tank leaders don't work.

[badgerjelly]

They are good for dealing with AA pieces. x2 will destroy or heavily damage with one barrage. Then you just fly in bomber to finish the job.

You do really need to move them after firing though or risk losing them.

Not useless, just best used in combo with other arty pieces in long game so your arty pieces are focused by counter battery rather than getting your mortars wiped. Using halftracks to move them is also a good idea ;)

[badgerjelly]

NOTE: think they need a price buff OR ammo buff

[TheMeInTeam]

Originally posted by badgerjelly:

They are good for dealing with AA pieces. x2 will destroy or heavily damage with one barrage. Then you just fly in bomber to finish the job.

You do really need to move them after firing though or risk losing them.

Not useless, just best used in combo with other arty pieces in long game so your arty pieces are focused by counter battery rather than getting your mortars wiped. Using halftracks to move them is also a good idea ;)

Is there a way to put them back on halftracks w/o manually panning back there (or using control group zooming) and then individually ordering them onto the half tracks?

It feels like even if you do that, I'm not sure it's much faster in practice than simply ordering the target fire and then queuing the "scatter" order after it, which will have them move away from each other on foot immediately after the shot. Foot movement is slower, but it seems like you'd need insane APM to load more than 1-2 morters onto half tracks all the time while also managing multiple areas on the frontline.

If you're playing someone really attentive, could also use control group to zoom to mortars and then formation move them in some direction as a queued order, and as long as they're not too close it will be hard for counter battery to hit that.

[badgerjelly]

Originally posted by TheMeInTeam:

Originally posted by badgerjelly:

They are good for dealing with AA pieces. x2 will destroy or heavily damage with one barrage. Then you just fly in bomber to finish the job.

You do really need to move them after firing though or risk losing them.

Not useless, just best used in combo with other arty pieces in long game so your arty pieces are focused by counter battery rather than getting your mortars wiped. Using halftracks to move them is also a good idea ;)

Is there a way to put them back on halftracks w/o manually panning back there (or using control group zooming) and then individually ordering them onto the half tracks?

It feels like even if you do that, I'm not sure it's much faster in practice than simply ordering the target fire and then queuing the "scatter" order after it, which will have them move away from each other on foot immediately after the shot. Foot movement is slower, but it seems like you'd need insane APM to load more than 1-2 morters onto half tracks all the time while also managing multiple areas on the frontline.

If you're playing someone really attentive, could also use control group to zoom to mortars and then formation move them in some direction as a queued order, and as long as they're not too close it will be hard for counter battery to hit that.

No. You can also bring in your AA on Doushka trucks and use them to move mortars (easier option as you probably want to use HalfTracks for infantry killing).

Just tested again btw

x2 120mm will suppress Destroy at around 2500m. At 3000m they will not do so much BUT can still pin with some lucky hits and even kill occasionally!
x3 120mm will DESTROY at 4000m.

I like to sometimes use them to kill AA because they get the job done instantly.