Steel Division 2
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Congrats Allies. Eugen is this really what you want? Such an unbalanced game?
I'm so surprised by content of new DLC after I see it. The current 10v10 balance is horrible already. But new DLC even make it worse.

Allies got everything now, they can rush at A phase, they have plenty of 17-pdr, they control air all the time, their artys are overwhelming, they also got lots of powerful tanks more than ever. (Firefly, Hellcat, Achilles, Challenger and more than you can ever imagine)

At the same time, Axis got broken heart soldiers, expensive and useless tanks. Some players might be excited by Knispel. What if I tell you most inf of 16 Luftwaffe are heartbroken? Besides, 716 Infanterie don't have any tank, not even one card.

I think allies infantry and tanks will be more unstoppable after new DLC release. I do have some suggestions about balance that I could provide.
Firstly, 17-pdr range should be 1750 rather than 2000. 2000 is too far, and in this DLC allies don't lack 17-pdr or powerful tanks anymore. Tiger, Panther, even KingTiger is just a joke in front of so many anti tank methods.
Secondly, at least MG34 should be able to shoot when inf is moving. Grenadier is totally trash facing allied inf now. Grenadier just get suppressed and surrender. It's basically impossible to win in fight. Not to mention allies usually have cars around.

These are my suggestions for now. I don't know if you would take my suggestions but I believe we all want this game to be better and more balanced.
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Сообщения 6175 из 206
Автор сообщения: Shortpower
Автор сообщения: CrabNicholson
They literally genocided Prussia off the map, killing 4 million German civilians and displacing the rest.
I'd need a source on that, common understanding of WW2 by basically any reputable source will say something along the lines of what this Wikipedia article visually represents:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

The Soviet expulsion of Germans resulted in another 500k-2.5 million deaths and up to 14 million displaced.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_(1944%E2%80%931950)
Unfortunately I can't actually check the sources on that wiki page because they're in German and I don't feel like writing a research paper for a steam post.

This total is still significantly lower than the death toll Germany caused to civilians rampaging across eastern Europe. So if we're trying to quantify evil, which it appears you are the Nazis still took the cake. Additionally there is still a strong German state today and Eastern Germany is still German, in Hitlers new order pretty much every nation between Russia and Germany was to be ethnically cleansed and repopulated with Germans and iirc Russia itself was to get the same treatment up to the Urals.

The Axis were unequivocally the bad guys. The Soviets of course were a fairly brutal evil tyranny too but if Hitler managed his plans the death toll of the war was just the start. He expressed it in speeches and in his book plenty too he explicitly stated that the world was a zero sum game and for Germany to gain it had to kill and destroy nations it could kill and destroy for their land as Germany by his estimation was over crowded.
Killing someone in peacetime, as the Soviets and their puppet regimes did is very different from killing someone in wartime. Deaths during war time are often a result of food shortages and security concerns. Deaths during peace time are attributable only to pure malice.

Britain was blockading food from being imported into continental Europe. Continental Europe was a net food importer. This, by design, resulted in starvation and civilian deaths. This is a war crime by Britain with the intent of killing millions of people to force Germany to surrender. Britain tried to dodge the blame after the war, by accusing Germany for the starvation, even though Germans themselves were starving and Germany settled 400,000 Jews in Transnistria on collective farms under Romanian custody in an attempt to feed them. This was also a major reason for the strategic importance of Ukraine to Germany, as Ukraine was a food exporter.

Difference 2: 500,000 German soldiers were killed by unmarked partisan activity during WW2. Unmarked partisan activity is not protected by the Geneva convention. Until 1947, retaliatory attacks against civilians harboring partisans was considered lawful (partisans can only operate with the help of friendly settlements). France, USA, and USSR all engaged in anti-partisan reprisals against German civilians, the only difference between them and Germany was that the USSR actively encouraged and armed partisans, while Germany did not, so the scale of partisan operations in the east was orders of magnitude higher than what it was in the west. The Allies decided after the war that this was not lawful, retroactively, but of course decided not to prosecute their own participation in this. Also, as a side-note, the Soviets often treated Volksturm conscripts as partisans, despite the Volksturm being an official military organization whose members wore German insignia.

Also, the idea that the Germans wanted to genocide all non-Germans is hillariously ridiculous. You know the crappy Schuma unit in Korruck? These were auxiliary security forces recruited in occupied soviet territory. In most places, they outnumbered the occupying Germans 10 to 1. SS-Galician was made up of Ukrainian volunteers; the Germans had multiple other combat divisions made up of Slavs, as well as several allied Slavic states. The wehrmacht included 1,400,000 Soviet citizens including Russians and minorities. In German internal propaganda, they referred to the Great Northern Russians as Aryans (and also Serbians, Ukrainians, etc. as well). The German's Final Solution to the Czech Question was to leave them as unintegrated non-Germans (rather than try to assimilate them, which was the potential alternative). The Germans adopted out Polish war orphans to German families and encouraged them to be raised as Germans. The Lokot Autonomy was formed and led by Russians as an experimental Russian self-ruled protectorate, and it even had its own military and its own tanks. Am I to believe that the Slavs were going to genocide themselves? In fact, the Germans had high regard for the Slavs. SS General Helmuth von Pannwitz (a Nazi party member) was voted by the Cossacks to be their ruler (though he was not recognized by any state), and when the Cossacks were sent to the USSR to be executed alongside their families, Helmuth von Pannwitz requested to be executed beside them (had he not requested this, he would have been extradited to West Germany).

Germany today is not an independent state, it is a supervised state. It is occupied by US forces even today, it is not allowed to run any political candidates without first being approved by the US. It is basically a US collaborationist regime, even to this very day.

Compare: when Germany defeated France, the original government was left in power, they did not execute any politicians. When Britain and US attacked the post-armistice France, they executed thousands, including sentencing national heroes like Petain and Laval to death (though Petain died of natural causes), and even executing journalists like Brassilach, who had no actual political power. This same sort of purging was carried out against Germany and the German military as well. Germany had a gentler hand than the western Allies, using France as the benchmark.
Автор сообщения: CrabNicholson
Автор сообщения: Shortpower
I'd need a source on that, common understanding of WW2 by basically any reputable source will say something along the lines of what this Wikipedia article visually represents:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

The Soviet expulsion of Germans resulted in another 500k-2.5 million deaths and up to 14 million displaced.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_(1944%E2%80%931950)
Unfortunately I can't actually check the sources on that wiki page because they're in German and I don't feel like writing a research paper for a steam post.

This total is still significantly lower than the death toll Germany caused to civilians rampaging across eastern Europe. So if we're trying to quantify evil, which it appears you are the Nazis still took the cake. Additionally there is still a strong German state today and Eastern Germany is still German, in Hitlers new order pretty much every nation between Russia and Germany was to be ethnically cleansed and repopulated with Germans and iirc Russia itself was to get the same treatment up to the Urals.

The Axis were unequivocally the bad guys. The Soviets of course were a fairly brutal evil tyranny too but if Hitler managed his plans the death toll of the war was just the start. He expressed it in speeches and in his book plenty too he explicitly stated that the world was a zero sum game and for Germany to gain it had to kill and destroy nations it could kill and destroy for their land as Germany by his estimation was over crowded.
Killing someone in peacetime, as the Soviets and their puppet regimes did is very different from killing someone in wartime. Deaths during war time are often a result of food shortages and security concerns. Deaths during peace time are attributable only to pure malice.

Britain was blockading food from being imported into continental Europe. Continental Europe was a net food importer. This, by design, resulted in starvation and civilian deaths. This is a war crime by Britain with the intent of killing millions of people to force Germany to surrender. Britain tried to dodge the blame after the war, by accusing Germany for the starvation, even though Germans themselves were starving and Germany settled 400,000 Jews in Transnistria on collective farms under Romanian custody in an attempt to feed them. This was also a major reason for the strategic importance of Ukraine to Germany, as Ukraine was a food exporter.

Difference 2: 500,000 German soldiers were killed by unmarked partisan activity during WW2. Unmarked partisan activity is not protected by the Geneva convention. Until 1947, retaliatory attacks against civilians harboring partisans was considered lawful (partisans can only operate with the help of friendly settlements). France, USA, and USSR all engaged in anti-partisan reprisals against German civilians, the only difference between them and Germany was that the USSR actively encouraged and armed partisans, while Germany did not, so the scale of partisan operations in the east was orders of magnitude higher than what it was in the west. The Allies decided after the war that this was not lawful, retroactively, but of course decided not to prosecute their own participation in this. Also, as a side-note, the Soviets often treated Volksturm conscripts as partisans, despite the Volksturm being an official military organization whose members wore German insignia.

Also, the idea that the Germans wanted to genocide all non-Germans is hillariously ridiculous. You know the crappy Schuma unit in Korruck? These were auxiliary security forces recruited in occupied soviet territory. In most places, they outnumbered the occupying Germans 10 to 1. SS-Galician was made up of Ukrainian volunteers; the Germans had multiple other combat divisions made up of Slavs, as well as several allied Slavic states. The wehrmacht included 1,400,000 Soviet citizens including Russians and minorities. In German internal propaganda, they referred to the Great Northern Russians as Aryans (and also Serbians, Ukrainians, etc. as well). The German's Final Solution to the Czech Question was to leave them as unintegrated non-Germans (rather than try to assimilate them, which was the potential alternative). The Germans adopted out Polish war orphans to German families and encouraged them to be raised as Germans. The Lokot Autonomy was formed and led by Russians as an experimental Russian self-ruled protectorate, and it even had its own military and its own tanks. Am I to believe that the Slavs were going to genocide themselves? In fact, the Germans had high regard for the Slavs. SS General Helmuth von Pannwitz (a Nazi party member) was voted by the Cossacks to be their ruler (though he was not recognized by any state), and when the Cossacks were sent to the USSR to be executed alongside their families, Helmuth von Pannwitz requested to be executed beside them (had he not requested this, he would have been extradited to West Germany).

Germany today is not an independent state, it is a supervised state. It is occupied by US forces even today, it is not allowed to run any political candidates without first being approved by the US. It is basically a US collaborationist regime, even to this very day.

Compare: when Germany defeated France, the original government was left in power, they did not execute any politicians. When Britain and US attacked the post-armistice France, they executed thousands, including sentencing national heroes like Petain and Laval to death (though Petain died of natural causes), and even executing journalists like Brassilach, who had no actual political power. This same sort of purging was carried out against Germany and the German military as well. Germany had a gentler hand than the western Allies, using France as the benchmark.
Germany also attempted to blockade Britain.

Germany attempted to organize the werewolf groups, which would've been the most centrally organized partisans/nazi terrorists that stuck around after the war.

Reprisal killings in Yugoslavia often targeted genuinely unrelated settlements and drove those settlements to join Tito

Once more, even after the war Hitler intended to continue killing. He exicitly wrote and stated as such with no sugar coating.

I can find 0 evidence to support that Germany moved 400,000 jews to Transnistria. I see that Transistria had 350k Jews there originally and that the administrative system put in place deported more jews from Romania to there, but not 400k from outside Transistria. Secondarily "made farms" is a really tame way to say made concentration slave camps that resulted in 250k+ deaths.

Earlier in the German invasion many people (particularly non-Russian citizens of the USSR) saw the invading Germans as better than the existing Soviet apparatus, but the tune changed fairly quickly and the last major Russian formation in the German army swapped sides to help the Czech uprising against their Nazi occupiers.

As for not integrating Russians, it's tough to say exactly since Hitler didn't manage to get that far, but he made it clear he wanted room for Germans and that he was more than willing to kill non-Germans for that space. Germany expelled Czechs from the sudetenland and murdered 250k in concentration camps. The treatment of the Czechs was largely only aa "good" as it was due to the need for their arms industry and their "direct German ancestry."

The Lokot Autonomy was a propped illegitimate government lead by released criminals and ruled by Nazi law. At the time when the collaborationist militia had 1400 the resistance movement had 20000. By the time it had to actually fight it had a fairly decent force of 12,000 and immediately crumbled upon contact with the enemy, entire regiments defecting back to the Soviet Union.

I can't find anything suggesting 500,000 nazi soldiers died to resistance movements. The most successful resistance homed in Yugoslavia is only credited with 19,000 to 100,000 dead Nazi occupiers.

If you think Germany is a supervised US puppet you're a goober. It has stepped on US toes and interests plenty of times, while refusing to uphold its responsibilities to NATO and create laws and trade deals that are harmful to US business interests. It is absolutely a sovereign nation.

Petain tolerated the deportation of jews from Vichy France while murdering political opponents, he also was able to produce a list of ministers immediately after the Nazis asked him to - suggesting he was ready and willing to collaborate even before France fell. The Nazis didn't leave the French political system be, it arrested dangerous elements and held some to the very end of the war and murdered others (Castle Itter comes to mind without looking into it).

Laval meanwhile exported French (mostly jews) as slave labor (really to death camps, but to their defense the French Government was just told slave labor) to Germany and was executed for being a traitor by the French government - not Britain/US.

If Hitler could manage the murder of 6 million jews (90% of Polish jews included) in just under 3 years of the "final solution" it seems pretty obvious what would happen if he was given more time.
Отредактировано Shortpower; 19 мар. 2024 г. в 14:20
Автор сообщения: CrabNicholson
Автор сообщения: Cyberbully
Mass rape is a form of genocide fun fact, making the red army rape (and torture, murder) of every German woman and girl ages 8 - 80 objectively genocide.
They literally shot them and forced them from their houses. It wasn't just rape, though rape was part of it.

An entire nation, Prussia, with beautiful historic cities like Konigsberg were literally erased from existence.

Sudetenland, and Volga Germans were also erased, among other ethnic cleansings committed by the Soviets and Soviet allies.
A man with an oversized brain and a limp is my source on every woman and girl 8-80, his private diaries (45 final entries). And yea most of them were killed after in ways that would get this post removed from Steam if I mentioned them.
Отредактировано Double N'wah; 19 мар. 2024 г. в 14:56
Автор сообщения: Shortpower
Автор сообщения: CrabNicholson
blah
it seems pretty obvious what would happen if he was given more time.
All of the dead from the Ukraine war are the fault of the allies for opposing Hitler when he requested to work together to stop Bolshevism. So you can add those modern deaths onto your tally, for giving them lend lease after the holodomor had already happened. You supported a genocidal regime and caused Putin to exist in 2024. Stalin was a literal bank robber, kidnapper and terrorist. Thats how he rose to power. Murdering a guys whole family.

Canada put Italians, Japanese, many Germans, Fascists and Communists in internment camps in WW2. Modern Canada is now putting people in prison for life, over words. House arresting them over words with no trial. Next thing you know they will create a neo-NKVD. Should we prepare with pokers. But Im supposed to believe nationalists are the bad guys, because they organized from the start to stop these people? Nah. Your post is ridiculous on its face.

More Germans died in allied captivity after the war was over than jews to German camps. There was no food, not even the allies could feed people. Starved to death, not like you killed them right exactly like jews. You did the exact same thing.

“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”
― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956

Hes talking about being arrested for hate speech in Canada. Fun fact anti-semitism was a crime punishable by death in the USSR. Ethnic jews of course, since communism is atheism. So not the religion, just the people.

Also bonus, Canada participated in the Anglo Boer war where Boer women and children were tied up and used as human shields that the British soldiers fired between at the Boer men. The men refused to kill their own women, the women screamed SHOOT JUST SHOOT US. Their women and children who were let out through a corridor that wasnt actually safe like Russia does to people - were placed in concentration camps and fed rotten canned meat etc. Its all in the movie Ohm Kruger (Uncle Kruger) and is based on historical fact. Canada is guilty of genocide crimes against the Boers and has never issued an apology.

If its not plainly obvious 91% of Canadian land is owned federally and nearly everything is a "crown corporation" or TLDR seized means of production. Canada is a communist globalist "post national state" with a century+ long history of genocide and oppressing its own people.
Отредактировано Double N'wah; 19 мар. 2024 г. в 15:04
Автор сообщения: Cyberbully
Автор сообщения: Shortpower
it seems pretty obvious what would happen if he was given more time.
All of the dead from the Ukraine war are the fault of the allies for opposing Hitler when he requested to work together to stop Bolshevism.
Oh it's a generic "Hitler was the good guy" at the core of it. You're hopeless and deluded simple as.

Many countries did awful things, the Soviet Union in particular wasn't far off from Nazi Germany while Stalin was at the helm, must be why Stalin respected and complimented Hitler so much.

Also "Why didn't everyone agree with the German tyrant to just invade the largest nation on the planet for no particular reason."
Отредактировано Shortpower; 19 мар. 2024 г. в 16:16
Автор сообщения: Cyberbully
Автор сообщения: Shortpower
it seems pretty obvious what would happen if he was given more time.
All of the dead from the Ukraine war are the fault of the allies for opposing Hitler when he requested to work together to stop Bolshevism. So you can add those modern deaths onto your tally, for giving them lend lease after the holodomor had already happened. You supported a genocidal regime and caused Putin to exist in 2024. Stalin was a literal bank robber, kidnapper and terrorist. Thats how he rose to power. Murdering a guys whole family.
Yeah, they tried to stop Bolshevism that hard that started to genocide 120.000 people from Polish ancestry
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia
Surprise, they were a genocidal organisation too.
Отредактировано Amormaliar; 19 мар. 2024 г. в 16:30
Автор сообщения: CrabNicholson
Автор сообщения: Mr Cheese73
im sure Rommel2009 with the german soldier pfp is glorifying Rommel for allegedly standing up to Hman instead of literally any other section of his career
When y'all allies supporters gonna apologize for the atom bomb, or for sending the Ukrainian cossacks to the USSR along with their wives and children to be machine-gunned down, or for the reprisal attacks committed against German civilians or any of the other numerous western allied atrocities that were never prosecuted? Or if you want to talk Soviet atrocities, how about making a cannibal island for their own citizens who lacked an internal passport and making them fight over food and eat eachother; or literally impaling Polish soldiers with spears through the anus like they did with Captain Rosinsky.

It's really pathetic to cry about ERWIN ROMMEL of all people at a time when all of this was going on.
Please leave your echo chambers and actually go delve into the events. the nukes were justified, sending Ukrainians to Ukraine is uh... what you do? Reprisal killings against German citizens were comparatively rare from America and what events there were are heavily punished. As for Soviet atrocities yeah, commies are people who are only outdone by the nazis in 1940, literally no one mentioned that and they're not in the Allies.
Автор сообщения: Shortpower
Once more, even after the war Hitler intended to continue killing. He exicitly wrote and stated as such with no sugar coating.
Do you have even a single quote where he said anything at all like this? Please provide it here verbatim and I will take back everything I said. Should be easy to find such a quote, right?

Unless you mean the policy he talked about in the 20's to settle Germans eastward, which was widely considered uncontroversial at the time as it was well known that you could settle a land without genociding it (though Americans may disagree).
Автор сообщения: Shortpower
I can find 0 evidence to support that Germany moved 400,000 jews to Transnistria. I see that Transistria had 350k Jews there originally and that the administrative system put in place deported more jews from Romania to there, but not 400k from outside Transistria. Secondarily "made farms" is a really tame way to say made concentration slave camps that resulted in 250k+ deaths.
https://www.jta.org/archive/jews-in-transnistria-send-s-o-s-through-international-red-cross

"It was estimated here today that at least 400,000 Jews have been expelled by the Rumanian authorities from various sections of Rumania into Transnistria."

I can find numerous other references to that same number, though estimates vary, 400,000 being the high estimate.
Автор сообщения: CrabNicholson
Автор сообщения: Shortpower
Once more, even after the war Hitler intended to continue killing. He exicitly wrote and stated as such with no sugar coating.
Do you have even a single quote where he said anything at all like this? Please provide it here verbatim and I will take back everything I said. Should be easy to find such a quote, right?

Unless you mean the policy he talked about in the 20's to settle Germans eastward, which was widely considered uncontroversial at the time as it was well known that you could settle a land without genociding it (though Americans may disagree).
"I do not see why man should not be as cruel as nature" in the context of nation states engaging with one another.

"At issue here is not a special form of life indigenous to, let us say, the Russian people;
rather, it is the Bolshevist goal of world revolution. "

"Germany’s
objectives are very limited in fact. We have discussed this in great detail with Russia, as the
Russians are our next-door neighbors and, in the end, those most immediately affected.
Accordingly, England ought to welcome the understanding arrived at by Germany and Soviet
Russia. For the arrival at this understanding should remove once and for all the haunting
images of the present German regime being out to conquer the world"
Lol given he invaded every neutral country bordering him except Switzerland which of course he had designs on.

"Generals think war should be waged like the tourneys of the Middle Ages. I have no use for knights; I need revolutionaries" specifically referring to how generals had a sense of honor and tended to shy away from committing atrocities.

"The very first essential for success is a perpetually constant and regular employment of violence." Simple, straightforward, to the point. He thought humanity could only do well by being cruel and violent.

"For the rest of the world does not profit in the slightest from making it more difficult
for Germany to maintain its life. There is eighteen times less land per capita of the population
in respect to the German being than, for instance, in respect to a Russian."

"Humanitarianism is the expression of stupidity and violence." Once again, human decency is a foreign concept to Hitler.

"Our goals: I am determined to resolve
1. the question of Danzig and
2. the question of the Corridor, and to see to it that
3. a change of tone comes about in German-Polish relations, so as to warrant peaceful
coexistence.
Meanwhile I am equally determined to wage this war until the present Polish
Government judges it opportune to assent to these changes, or another Polish Government
shall be willing to do so.
I will cleanse Germany’s borders of this element of insecurity, this civilwar- like
circumstance. I will take care that our border in the East enjoys the same peace as along any
other of our borders.
I will take the measures necessary in a fashion that does not contradict what I have
pronounced to be my proposals to the world before you, my Deputies.
This means I do not wish to lead this war against women and children. I have instructed
my Luftwaffe to limit its attacks to military objectives. Should, however, the enemy regard
this as giving him license to employ reverse measures against us, then he shall receive so
powerful a response that stars dance before his eyes! "
Goober claim given they opened the attack by bombing Wielu.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Wielu%C5%84
and bombed Warsaw, the first large scale city bombings of the war happened in Poland by the Germans. A good policy to begin thinning out the population surely.

"Those who want to live, let them fight, and to those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live." He constantly supported the idea of international darwinism in that the loser should be killed off. He looked at Manifest Destiny from the USA which of course expanded westward displacing and killing natives as a great guidebook for Germany to follow going into Russia.

"In view of the historically unique collapse of this so-called body politic, the question no
doubt arises for everyone how such a development could come about. The cradle for the
Polish state stood at Versailles. Not Poles, but Germans and Russians, made the immeasurable
blood sacrifice from which this entity was born. What had proven unfit for life centuries
642
before was now artificially inseminated by a German state leadership, equally unfit for life, in
the year 1916, and, no less artificially, was born in 1920"

Lets not forget nearly every quote outside his speeches and his entire state apparatus was along the lines of "lie, trick, and deceive your people to die in war so you can win and keep power." With the state apparatus being super-policed (normal enough for wartime but even before) and built around distributing propaganda.

"I do understand that London is nettled by the “baseness” with which I of all people
succeeded in precluding this move all of a sudden. But I do believe that, in this instance, the
Russian and the German regimes did something most beneficial for both peoples as both of us
are too good to bleed to death only so that the London stock exchange and all of Jewry might
rejoice. With this another mighty state deserted the front against Germany. And you know,
my Volksgenossen, that I do not do anything by halves. Once I set out on a path, I follow this
path to the end." He doesn't do things in halves, so if he sets out saying he wants living space for Germany and that those who are conquered should die - it seems reasonable to conclude he won't half-way it.

1929 "If men wish to live, then they are forced to kill others. The entire struggle for survival is a conquest of the means of existance, which in turn results in the ELMINATION of others from these same sources of subsistence."

September 1935 "The only way to deal with the problem which remains open is that of legislative action. The German Government is in this controlled by the thought that through a single secular solution it may be possible still to create a level ground [eine Ebene] on which the German people may find a tolerable relation towards the Jewish people. Should this hope not be fulfilled and the Jewish agitation both within Germany and in the international sphere should continue, then the position must be examined afresh.
The third [law] is an attempt to regulate by law [the Jewish] problem, which, should this attempt fail, must then be handed over by law to the National-Socialist Party for a final solution."

"It has finally given France its solemn pledge that Germany will not make or place any
further territorial demands upon France now that the Saar question has been settled. It
believes that it has thus created, in a form rarely matched in history and by making a difficult
political and material sacrifice, the basis for the termination of a dispute between two great
nations which has lasted centuries"

November 1937: "I do not doubt for a second that we will procure for ourselves the same vital rights as
other peoples outside the country in exactly the same way as we were able to lead it onwards
within. I do not doubt that this vital right of the German Volk, too, will one day be understood
by the whole world! I am of the conviction that the most difficult preliminary work has
already been accomplished. What is necessary now is that all National Socialists recall again
and again the principles with which we grew up. If the whole Party and hence the whole
nation stands united behind the leadership, then this same leadership, supported by the joined
forces of a population of sixty-eight million, ultimately personified in its Wehrmacht, will be
able to successfully defend the interests of the nation and also to successfully accomplish the
tasks assigned to us!
I do not doubt for a second that we will procure our vital rights outside the country in
exactly the same way as we were able to lead it onwards within.
I am firmly convinced that this battle will end not a whit differently from the battle I
once waged internally"

"When we look at today’s Germany in light of this consideration, then, my young
friends, we recognize a fact which occasions great joy: certainly, there is a British Empire, but
there are only forty-six million Englishmen in the motherland. There is a huge American
state, but amongst its 130 million inhabitants, there are barely sixty-five million true AngloSaxons, and that’s that. The rest are Negroes, Jews, Latins, Irishmen, and Germans, and so on.
There is a huge Russian state. However, it has not even sixty million true Great
Russians as its bearers. The rest consists of, in part, greatly inferior races.
There is also France, spanning over nine million square kilometers of earth and with
more than 100 million men, but amongst them are perhaps at most thirtyseven million true
Frenchmen who must uphold this structure.
Well, here we stand, my young friends, a state of a total of 82 million German Teutons
(deutsche Germanen). At present, we are the ethnically most numerous political structure of
one race which exists on this earth, with the exception of China. This fact is not new. In
former times as well, the German Volk determined, thanks to the force of its numbers,
Europe’s destiny." -1940

1938 promising that "I only want the Sudetenland"
"The paralyzing of mobilization, of the conduct of civil affairs and the direction of the
armed forces, as well as delaying the development of the Czech Army by attacks on its
communication system and on centers of mobilization and government, will also be of vital
importance for the initial success of the Army. Where in the frontier region stronger Czech
Army formations or the depth of the defense systems may render a speedy and successful
break-through of the German land attack doubtful, the employment of adequate air formations
must be ensured.
As far as the course of operations at all permits, Czechoslovak industrial establishments
are to be spared. "

1939 here he lies and insists he's making a larger force to further his 4 year economic growth plan, but with historic hindsight we know what he did with this enlarged army. The hints he gives about how obsessed he is with population density and giving Germans plenty of open space to inhabit is a pretty solid forewarning.
"For what is the reason for all our economic troubles? Simply the overpopulation of our
Lebensraum! And in this context, I can only hold out to these critical gentlemen in the West
and in the democracies beyond Europe one simple fact and one simple question: The German
Volk survives with 135 inhabitants per square kilometer without any exterior assistance and
without access to its earlier savings."

This is just the first bit of what ended up being a 35 page document of heinous quotes, blatant lies, and funny conspiracy from the mouth of Charlie Chaplin's ugly twin.

One from much lower:
"In the same matter, another natural realization forces itself on us: the world does not
know any empty spaces! Nations which are numerically or biologically too weak and no
longer able satisfactorily to fill their Lebensraum will in the most favorable scenario be put on
a reservation that corresponds to their value and size. Other life will flow into the now empty
spaces. In accordance with Providence’s law, other nations-and, regrettably, often primitive
races-will then take up the fight for existence in an area that an aging nation has lost due to
cowardice and weakness, that is, unfitness for life. "
Отредактировано Shortpower; 19 мар. 2024 г. в 21:00
Автор сообщения: CrabNicholson
Автор сообщения: Shortpower
Once more, even after the war Hitler intended to continue killing. He exicitly wrote and stated as such with no sugar coating.
Do you have even a single quote where he said anything at all like this? Please provide it here verbatim and I will take back everything I said. Should be easy to find such a quote, right?

Unless you mean the policy he talked about in the 20's to settle Germans eastward, which was widely considered uncontroversial at the time as it was well known that you could settle a land without genociding it (though Americans may disagree).
:lunar2019crylaughingpig: I cant believe people like this still exist today. Thinking Hitler had no intention to kill after he had won the war. How stupid can someone be.
Автор сообщения: Shortpower
"I do not see why man should not be as cruel as nature" in the context of nation states engaging with one another.
What is this in regards to, specifically? Is he talking about being cruel to people? Or is he saying that man should adapt to his circumstances? It would help if you gave the full quote. I can't find a source for this anywhere.
Автор сообщения: Shortpower
"At issue here is not a special form of life indigenous to, let us say, the Russian people;
rather, it is the Bolshevist goal of world revolution. "
What does this have to do with anything? In fact this says the opposite of what you think, he's saying that his enemy is not Russia, but an ideology.
Автор сообщения: Shortpower
"Germany’s
objectives are very limited in fact. We have discussed this in great detail with Russia, as the
Russians are our next-door neighbors and, in the end, those most immediately affected.
Accordingly, England ought to welcome the understanding arrived at by Germany and Soviet
Russia. For the arrival at this understanding should remove once and for all the haunting
images of the present German regime being out to conquer the world"
What does this have to do with anything? None of these quotes you're giving answer the question I asked, they seem to be picked at random.
Автор сообщения: Shortpower
Lol given he invaded every neutral country bordering him except Switzerland which of course he had designs on.
He made no territorial claims on any of the neutral countries. In fact, in the countries whose governments didn't flee, they even continued to stay in power. The occupation was a wartime security measure. Britain also invaded neutral countries, like Iceland and Persia and post-armistice France, and bombed neutral Switzerland and post-armistice France.
Автор сообщения: Shortpower
"Generals think war should be waged like the tourneys of the Middle Ages. I have no use for knights; I need revolutionaries" specifically referring to how generals had a sense of honor and tended to shy away from committing atrocities.
What does this quote have to do with anything? You're grasping at straws by taking something he said and applying a completely different meaning to it that has nothing to do with the original quote.
Автор сообщения: Shortpower
"The very first essential for success is a perpetually constant and regular employment of violence." Simple, straightforward, to the point. He thought humanity could only do well by being cruel and violent.
I don't believe this is a real quote.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-provenance-of-the-sentence-The-very-first-essential-for-success-is-a-perpetually-constant-and-regular-employment-of-violence
Автор сообщения: Shortpower
"For the rest of the world does not profit in the slightest from making it more difficult
for Germany to maintain its life. There is eighteen times less land per capita of the population
in respect to the German being than, for instance, in respect to a Russian."
Once again, WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING? Are you just picking things out of a hat? This is really, really stupid. He is literally talking about the need for Germany to annex more land. Annexation doesn't imply genocide.
Автор сообщения: Shortpower
"Humanitarianism is the expression of stupidity and violence." Once again, human decency is a foreign concept to Hitler.
Another dubious quote, I can't find any source for this, and it is also in contrast to the fact that the NSDAP also ran charities and welfare programs
Автор сообщения: Shortpower
"Our goals: I am determined to resolve
1. the question of Danzig and
2. the question of the Corridor, and to see to it that
3. a change of tone comes about in German-Polish relations, so as to warrant peaceful
coexistence.
Meanwhile I am equally determined to wage this war until the present Polish
Government judges it opportune to assent to these changes, or another Polish Government
shall be willing to do so.
I will cleanse Germany’s borders of this element of insecurity, this civilwar- like
circumstance. I will take care that our border in the East enjoys the same peace as along any
other of our borders.
I will take the measures necessary in a fashion that does not contradict what I have
pronounced to be my proposals to the world before you, my Deputies.
This means I do not wish to lead this war against women and children. I have instructed
my Luftwaffe to limit its attacks to military objectives. Should, however, the enemy regard
this as giving him license to employ reverse measures against us, then he shall receive so
powerful a response that stars dance before his eyes! "
Goober claim given they opened the attack by bombing Wielu.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Wielu%C5%84
and bombed Warsaw, the first large scale city bombings of the war happened in Poland by the Germans. A good policy to begin thinning out the population surely.
Once again this quote has nothing to do with genocide.
Автор сообщения: Shortpower
"Those who want to live, let them fight, and to those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live." He constantly supported the idea of international darwinism in that the loser should be killed off. He looked at Manifest Destiny from the USA which of course expanded westward displacing and killing natives as a great guidebook for Germany to follow going into Russia.
He's not saying that you should kill people who don't fight, he is clearly saying that in a struggle you need to accept hardship or else you will be destroyed by your enemies. He is saying this to his own people to inspire them to accept difficulties.
Автор сообщения: Shortpower
"In view of the historically unique collapse of this so-called body politic, the question no
doubt arises for everyone how such a development could come about. The cradle for the
Polish state stood at Versailles. Not Poles, but Germans and Russians, made the immeasurable
blood sacrifice from which this entity was born. What had proven unfit for life centuries
642
before was now artificially inseminated by a German state leadership, equally unfit for life, in
the year 1916, and, no less artificially, was born in 1920"
Once again, this quote has nothing to do with anything. He's not saying Poles are unfit for life, he is saying that the Polish state was unfit as a state.
Автор сообщения: Shortpower
Lets not forget nearly every quote outside his speeches and his entire state apparatus was along the lines of "lie, trick, and deceive your people to die in war so you can win and keep power." With the state apparatus being super-policed (normal enough for wartime but even before) and built around distributing propaganda.
He literally never said anything of the sort. It is in fact the exact opposite of what he said, where he encouraged Germans to be honorable. You're probably confusing speeches he made where he denounced "jewish" ideas as being this.

Stop and use your brain for a second. Does it make sense to you for a person to give a speech where he is saying "I'm going to lie and deceive you so you can die and I can keep power"?

I'm not going to read any of your other quotes, you've provided me with a heap of garbage. Provide me a single quote where he actually talks about wanting to genocide people. None of the quotes you posted have anything to do with anything.
Отредактировано CrabNicholson; 19 мар. 2024 г. в 22:56
Автор сообщения: CrabNicholson
Stop and use your brain for a second. Does it make sense to you for a person to give a speech where he is saying "I'm going to lie and deceive you so you can die and I can keep power"?
With historical context that's exactly what these speeches become, particularly since later in the war he openly admits to lying earlier all these promises of peace and yet in 1939 he explicitly states ""But no one can know how long that will remain so. I have doubted for a long time whether I
should strike in the East and then in the West. Basically I did not organize the armed forces in order not to strike. The decision to strike was always in me. Earlier or later I wanted to solve the problem. Under the pressure of events, it was decided that the East was to be attacked first." November 1939 to OKW rather than civilians.

Aside from that every other quote is hyper fixated on population density and the darwinist ideas applied to nation states. He strongly believed if your nation couldn't defend its land your people didn't deserve to exist.

"The dilemma we shall then face can only be resolved in two ways:"
"2. through an expansion of Lebensraum for our Volk, thereby establishing an economic
circle to secure the production of sufficient foodstuffs for Germany domestically. "
Seeing as land is limited and already inhabited.....

Something right out of Putin-style leaders' playbook: "In response to the renewed aggression imperiling their life and liberty, the various
ethnic groups have now divorced themselves from the Government in Prague. Czechoslovakia
has ceased to exist. "

"To eliminate this threat to the general peace and to create the preconditions for the
necessary new order in this Lebensraum, I have determined to order German troops to march
on Bohemia and Moravia as of this day. Their task is to disarm the terrorist gangs and the
Czech armed forces backing them."
-March 1939

April 1939 "If a British statesman today demands of me that all problems related to Germany’s vital
interests first be discussed with England, then I could as well insist that all issues pending in
Great Britain had first to be discussed with us. It is entirely possible that the English would
retort to this: “The Germans have no business being in Palestine!” Indeed, we do not want to
be in Palestine. And just as we Germans have no business being in Palestine, the English have
no business being in our German Lebensraum!"
Here of course by "German Lebensraum" he means Czech and Polish territories.

"I do not believe that, when people abroad say that this [the aggression against
Czechoslovakia] heralds the beginning of a German attack on the world, this is meant quite
seriously. If it is, then this is a sign of a guilty conscience. Perhaps it only reflects indignation
felt at the failure of a larger plan? Perhaps it only serves to create the tactical prerequisites for
a new policy of encirclement? Whatever the case may be, I remain convinced that I have
rendered a great service to the cause of peace. " This speech is of course still the same one in April 1939 and so AFTER Hitler made the demands to Poland.

"And it is because of this that I believe in a final reconciliation among the peoples [of the
world], which will come about sooner or later. Only if the Jewish spirit of discord among
people is eliminated, can a lasting cooperation among nations come about, based on mutual
understanding." That's about as explicit as you can make a call for genocide without outright stating it, I guess it's not shocking this is 4 years before his final solution.

Another speech still April 1939 not long before invading all these countries, mostly unprovoked.
"I was glad that a number of European states took advantage of the opportunity presented
by the German Reich Government’s declaration to express, in turn, their unequivocal
willingness to espouse a stand of unconditional neutrality and hereby to strengthen this
avowal. This is true of Holland, Belgium, Switzerland, Denmark, and so on. I have already
mentioned France. I need not mention Italy, as it is tied to us by bonds of a friendship both
close and profound. Neither need I speak of Hungary or Yugoslavia, neighbors with whom we
are fortunate to enjoy a heartfelt friendship. "
Once again, this is shortly before he lights the fuse and invades all these countries Most basically without any kind of justification - I more or less understand Belgium and to a lesser extent the Netherlands but the rest? Aggression for aggression's sake.

"German-Russian relations have been established for good. The reason for this was that
England and France, with the support of certain smaller states, incessantly attributed to
Germany ambitions to conquer terrain which lay completely outside the sphere of German
interests. At one time, Germany was eyeing the occupation of the Ukraine; then again it
sought to invade Finland; at another time it was claimed that Romania was threatened; then
finally even Turkey was endangered. Given these circumstances, I held it to be proper to
undertake, above all, with Russia, a sober delineation of interests, to once and for all clarify
what Germany believes it must regard as its sphere of interest in securing its future, and what
in turn Russia holds to be vital to its existence.
Based on this clear delineation of mutual spheres of interest, the Russo- German
relationship was revised. It is childish to hope that in the course of this revision tensions might
arise anew between Germany and Russia. "
Seeing as he went on to invade most of these and break this treaty...

"12. Mr. Roosevelt further declares that it is clear to him that “all international problems
can be solved at the Council table.”
My answer: Theoretically that may well be possible, since one ought to think that, in
many instances, reason would prevail in pointing to the justness of the demands on the one
side, and to the necessity of making concessions on the other. For example, according to all
laws of reason, logic, and the principles of an allencompassing higher justice, even according
to the commandments of a divine will, all nations should equally partake in the goods of this
world. It is not right that one nation should occupy so large a Lebensraum that not even
fifteen inhabitants live on one square kilometer, while other nations are forced to sustain
themselves with 140, 150, or even 200 inhabitants per square kilometer. "

you try to argue it doesn't imply genocide but his constant obsession with population density for the German and his policies in Poland particularly really suggest otherwise. Maybe he didn't explicitly intend to kill them all in one generation as he did with the jews but he absolutely intended to limit their ability to reproduce and replace them with Germans. That still constitutes genocide.

As for his hatred of Bolshevism he still 100% believed the most important and crucial part of Marx's theories "And this brings up the problematic topic of liberty. Liberty? Insofar as the interests of
the Volksgemeinschaft permit the exercise of liberty by the individual, he shall be granted this
liberty. The liberty of the individual ends where it starts to harm the interests of the collective.
In this case the liberty of the Volk takes precedence over the liberty of the individual. "
The Collective > Individuals

"I still recall vividly my political
“friends” from the days before our rise to power. These fellows always insisted they knew no
Fatherland. And, indeed, this is true as they are Jews and have nothing to do with us. These
fellows now are reaffirming their attitudes and their pledges of old: they have launched a
campaign of hatred against Germany which they pursue with all their might. "

You've fully shown your hand as an anti-semite though so I'm sure you either don't care about his genocide against the jews or deny it despite how well recorded it is.

Still 1939 "The commandment of the hour is the securing of German Lebensraum. "

"Instead, there was an ongoing search for ever new, hypocritical pretexts for limiting the
German Lebensraum, even in areas where we never threatened British interests. Ever new
attempts were made to render our lives more difficult and to cut us off.
It was England which urged on Poland the stance that rendered a peaceful
understanding impossible. Its declaration of a guarantee opened for the Polish Government
the prospects of provoking Germany without running into any danger, and even of being
allowed to attack Germany. "
Wahhh the Poles didn't want to be Munich Conferenced on so the British are really the aggressors here!!!! -Hitler 1939

"Once I endeavored to draw final borders for the Reich in the West and the South.
Thereby I sought to relieve region after region from political insecurity and to secure the
peace there for the future. I endeavored to attain the same here in the East. " Despite his earlier promises that he had no territorial designs on his neighbors he admits outright here that he in fact planned this all along.

"There are approximately 85 million Germans in Germany. I do not even include in this
figure our Low German Volksgenossen. England, the British Empire, has barely 46 million
Englishmen at home. The French Empire has barely 37 million Frenchmen at home. Even the
American Union, minus Negroes and Jews and Latinos and Germans, has barely 60 million
true Anglo- Saxons. Russia has barely 60 million Great Russians. And even today the unified
racial core in Germany remains the largest by far; not only in value, in itself highly
significant, but also in numbers, it is the greatest. By contrast, if we compare the percentage
of Lebensraum occupied by the German Volk to that of the earth as such, then we must
remark that our Volk is one of the most disadvantaged peoples of the world. Barely 600,000
square kilometers, in fact about 140 persons per square kilometer. 46 million Englishmen
rule, control, and organize about 40 million square kilometers. Barely 60 million Great
Russians rule an area of about 19 million square kilometers. About 60 million Anglo-Saxons
within the American Union determine life within an area which encompasses about nine and a
half million square kilometers. 37 million Frenchmen rule over life in an area of nearly ten
million square kilometers. In other words: the German Volk, in terms of the space it occupies,
is by far the most modest there is on this earth. " -1940

"In spite of this, I yielded to this new Russian demand. However, this was only the
beginning of constantly new extortions, which since then have been repeated time and again.
The victory in Poland, exclusively secured by German troops, induced me to direct a new
offer of peace to the western powers. It was rejected because of the international and Jewish
warmongers. " -1941 Yeah, those damn warmongers not letting me *checks notes* annex more than 2 countries that they promised to protect.

"At a
moment when Germany is struggling to consolidate a Lebensraum which encompasses little
more than 100,000 square kilometers, saucy newspaper journalists in other states, which rule
forty million square kilometers, claim that Germany strives for world supremacy in this
struggle. The German-Russian agreements should necessarily have an enormously calming
effect on these disquieted advocates of world freedom. For these agreements present authentic
proof that allegations of Germany’s drive towards the Ural Mountains, the Ukraine, Rumania,
and so on, are but the outgrowth of an overwrought Martian fantasy (Marsphantasie). " Yeahhhhh this is just 2 years before Barbarossa. Let that sink in.

"2. the ordering of this entire Lebensraum by the criteria of nationalities, i.e. the
resolution of the minorities questions which not only concern this area, but all southern and
southeastern European states;
3. in this context: the attempt at putting into order and regulating the Jewish problem; "
Y I K E S

"And every British balloon which the wind blows over our lines and which drops off
more or less spirited leaflets here proves to us that time stood still in this outside world during
the past twenty years.
And every echo elicited in Germany should prove to them that a Movement has taken
place here, a Movement of enormous proportions, of enormous force and effectiveness.
England does not want peace! We heard this again yesterday. "
England needs to stop dropping leaflets asking for peace, the fact they keep dropping them must mean they don't want peace!. -Hitler November 1939

"Moltke often made the same calculations in his time. By the pressure of events it came
first to the fight against Poland. It will be charged against me: Fight and fight again. In
fighting I see the fate of all creatures. Nobody can avoid fighting if he does not want to go
under. The increasing number of people requires larger Lebensraum. My goal was to create a
rational relation between the number of people and the space for them to live in. " same speech
(this next quote immediately follows the previous)
"The fight must start here. No nation can evade the solution of this problem. Otherwise it
must yield and gradually go down." He literally believes people need to constantly exterminate one another and take their land to succeed.

"I decided on a different way-adaptation of the
Lebensraum to the number of people. "

The reason I'm quoting all of these and not just the ones intrinsically tied to genocide is to show the general frame of mind and opinion of Hitler, which was international darwinism and a burning hatred from Liberal Democracies and Soviet Communism with the basic understanding that the world is a 0 sum game and for Germany to succeed he needed to kill others and take their land.

"Molotov’s second question: Russia again feels threatened by Finland. Russia is
determined not to tolerate this. Is Germany ready not to assist Finland in any manner and, in
particular, immediately to withdraw the German troops that are marching through it to
Kirkenes for replacement? My answer: As before, Germany has no political interests in
Finland. A new war by Russia against the small Finnish people cannot be regarded as
tolerable by the German Reich government, all the more so as we cannot believe that Finland
is threatening Russia. However, we do not wish the Baltic Sea to become a theater of war
again. " -1941
Funny he suddenly cares about small nations being squashed after squashing so many.

“We shall sow the English coast with mines which cannot be cleared. This mine warfare
with the Luftwaffe demands a different starting point. England cannot live without its imports.
We can feed ourselves. The continuous sowing of mines on the English coasts will bring
England to her knees. However, this can only occur if we have occupied Belgium and
Holland. It is a difficult decision for me. No one has ever achieved what I have achieved. My
life is of no importance in all this. I have led the German people to a great height, even if the
world does hate us now.”
Hitler looking to blockade the British and invade Belgium.

"You can explain the incomprehensible absurdity of their actions at the
moment you realize that the Jew is always behind the stupidity and weakness of man, his lack
of character on the one hand, and his deficiencies on the other. The Jew is the wire-puller in
the democracies, as well as the creator and driving force of the Bolshevik international beast
of the world (Weltbestie)."
Classic Hitler being the garbage human being of all time.

"In these hours, in which Mr. Churchill is pulling off a pitiful fiasco in Athens4 and is
not in a position to oppose Bolshevism even within a limited framework, at this moment, the
man wants to make it appear as though he would be capable of stopping Bolshevist’s advance into Europe at any point.
This is a ridiculous fantasy. America cannot do it, England cannot do it.
The only state, for the sake of whose fate this war is being waged, is Germany, which
will either save itself or be ruined, should it lose this war. "
Lol this aged like M I L K. This was him coping near the end of the war btw, when Germany was clearly going to lose and he was basically rage screaming how if Germany falls here the German people will die (because that's what he sought to do to other nations so it figures he'd find that to be the logical conclusion of the war). While also insisting Germany was only losing because of Jewish conspiracy.

"Wait until the German Volk sees this development-you can be confident that it will
make all the sacrifices that are humanly possible." On top of the werewolves which were already being organized at this point he had also begun to draft literal children and fully expected his people to throw their lives away for the madness that was his war.

"That is how the Jewish-international conspiracy has lived on hopes from the first day.
Every time when the nations began to become suspicious, these hopes were transformed into
prophecies. With a certain rabble-rousing audacity, they were portrayed to the masses as
certainties, as matters of course. "
Yeah, these are the quotes of a man who'd implement a "final solution"

"We were granted only six years of peace after January 30, 1933. In these six years, we
secured so many tremendous accomplishments and planned even greater ones; so many and
such great things that we all the more elicited the envy of our democratic, good-for-nothing
surrounding world. " Bro annexed Czechia and Austria and tried to annex Poland and is still whining 6 years later that he didn't get to annex it for free literally like a child losing a video game - except his game cost untold millions of lives from every side of the conflict.


If I had to pour over the ramblings of a mad man I'm going to share them. It gives context and shows just how disturbed and paranoid he was as an individual.
Отредактировано Shortpower; 20 мар. 2024 г. в 0:21
Автор сообщения: CrabNicholson
I'm not going to read any of your other quotes, you've provided me with a heap of garbage. Provide me a single quote where he actually talks about wanting to genocide people. None of the quotes you posted have anything to do with anything.
This is the specific quote that came to mind when I made the claim:

"And thus, ever since there has been a history of man, this history has consisted of
nothing other than the attempt to bring into harmony the naturally increasing numbers of a
Volk with the Lebensraum. This meant either to adapt the Lebensraum to the Volk’s numbers
or to adapt the Volk’s numbers to the Lebensraum. These are the two ways of establishing a
tolerable relationship here.
I will begin with the first alternative: people adapt to the Lebensraum. This can occur
naturally as the insufficient Lebensraum cannot provide for people.
Weak peoples then begin to capitulate in the face of necessity and to abandon the
foundation of their existence. This means that they start to reduce their numbers, primarily
due to need.
There is yet another way of adapting the Volk’s numbers to the Lebensraum. It is called
emigration. In both ways, Germany has lost human material of immense value throughout the
centuries. In centuries past already, need had been great in the German lands. Often this has
led to a virtual decimation of men. The second way robbed us of yet more German blood.
Throughout centuries, pressured by insufficient Lebensraum of their own, German men
left their homeland and helped to build up those foreign states which now face us as enemies.
Another, third way was found of adapting the Volk’s numbers to the given Lebensraum.
It is called: voluntary reduction of birth rates. After the first way-that of hunger-no longer
appeared tolerable and the second way-that of emigration-was blockaded by the Peace
Treaties of Versailles, people turned to the third way in increasing numbers. It was even
hailed as a virtue to voluntarily limit the strength of one’s own Volk, to reduce the Volk’s
numbers. I need not tell you where this led. In the end, the result of all these attempts was that
the potential for natural selection in a people was severely curtailed.
And, in the end, it begins to surrender its forces to better peoples. For it is emigration
above all which, like a magnet, draws the active element out of a race, a Volk, and leaves
behind only the weak, the cowardly, the meek. And if such a state of affairs is allowed to
persist over the centuries, then a formerly important people will slowly but surely lose its steel
and turn into a weak, a cowardly mass of men, willing to accept any fate.
This is the first way of establishing balance between a Volk’s numbers and the
Lebensraum. This way, no matter what the circumstances, will always lead to the destruction
of a Volk. In the future, this will lead to a reduction of such a Volk in comparison to those
peoples who choose the second way, namely, not to adapt the Volk’s numbers to the
Lebensraum, but rather to adapt the Lebensraum to the Volk’s numbers. This is the way
chosen by all vigorous nations of this earth. It is the natural way since Providence has placed
man upon this earth and has given him this earth as his playground, as the basis for his
existence. Providence has not initiated man in its designs. It has not assigned peoples certain
Lebensraume. Instead Nature has placed these beings on this earth and has given them
freedom. He who wants to live asserts himself.
He who cannot assert himself does not deserve to live. He will perish. This is an iron,
yet also a just principle. The earth is not there for cowardly peoples, not for weak ones, not for
lazy ones. The earth is there for him who takes it and who industriously labors upon it and
thereby fashions his life. That is the will of Providence. That is why it has placed man upon
this earth, along with the other beings, and has paved the way for him, has freed him to make
his own decisions, to lead his own struggle for survival.
And should he fail in this struggle, should he become weak in asserting his existence,
then Providence will not rush to his aid. Instead, it will sentence him to death. And rightly so.
Other men will come. The space will not remain empty. What the one man loses, another will
take. And life continues in accordance with its own eternal rhythm without consideration for
the weakling."

"For as they begin to occupy a part of this
Lebensraum, the fact remains that while the Volk’s numbers are variable, the Lebensraum to
be occupied remains a given. It will remain the same unless man somehow succeeds in
expanding it.
In other words: life naturally makes a Volk multiply, provided it is healthy, while it is
not as natural that the necessary Lebensraum also will expand or be enlarged. Sooner or later,
there will be a discrepancy between the increase in the Volk’s numbers and the available
Lebensraum. There are only two ways to overcome this discrepancy. Either the Volk’s
numbers are adjusted to the available Lebensraum-by repressing or reducing it somehow,
depending on the circumstances-or the Lebensraum is adjusted to accommodate the increase
in the Volk. This first path has been chosen in the past. Nature by itself advocates this path.
Through hunger, it decimates a people whose Lebensraum no longer affords it the means
necessary to its existence. At this point, man himself begins to undertake this decimation-i.e.
by adjusting his numbers to the available area.
Either alone or in groups, he leaves it, insofar as it is possible for him to emigrate. The
biological consequences are grave: this takes the most active elements away from a people.
The alternative is man restricting his natural fertility-i.e. he adopts a two or one child system.
Again, the biological consequences are grave: this undermines the process of natural
selection, the breeding of the fittest. "

"There is another way yet. It stands in opposition to this latter path leading to the
adaptation of the Volk’s numbers to the Lebensraum. It is the natural way and the one willed
by Providence: namely, that man should adjust the Lebensraum to his numbers. In other
words: that he should partake in the struggle for this earth. For it is nature which places man
on this earth and leaves it to him. Truly, this earth is a trophy cup for the industrious man." When you see the world as such a 0 sum 'must kill everyone to live' mentality of course you'd justify atrocities like the holocaust and intentionally starting WW2.

Or how about this from a private conversation rather than a speech:
“When the rest of the world was engaged in seizing the open spaces, Germany was in the throes of religious warfare.
The foundation of St. Petersburg by Peter the Great was a fatal event in the history of Europe; and St. Petersburg must therefore disappear utterly from the earth's surface. Moscow, too. Then the Russians will retire into Siberia.
It is not by taking over the miserable Russian hovels that we shall establish ourselves as masters in the East. The German colonies must be organised on an altogether higher plane.
We have never before driven forward into empty spaces. The German people have absorbed both northern and southern Austria, and the original inhabitants are still there; but they were Sorb-Wends, members of basic European stock, with nothing in common with the Slavs.
As for the ridiculous hundred million Slavs, we will mould the best of them to the shape that suits us, and we will isolate the rest of them in their own pig-styes; and anyone who talks about cherishing the local inhabitant and civilising him, goes straight off into a concentration camp !”

Related:

“It was with feelings of pure idealism that I set out for the front in 1914. Then I saw men falling around me in thousands. Thus I learnt that life is a cruel struggle, and has no other object but the preservation of the species. The individual can disappear, provided there are other men to replace him.
I suppose that some people are clutching their heads with both hands to find an answer to this question: "How can the Fuehrer destroy a city like St. Petersburg?" Plainly I belong by nature to quite another species. I would prefer not to see anyone suffer, not to do harm to anyone. But when I realise that the species is in danger, then in my case sentiment gives way to the coldest reason. I become uniquely aware of the sacrifices that the future will demand, to make up for the sacrifices that one hesitates to allow to-day.”


Literally entirely unrelated but it was too funny not to share:
"The liberal age is a thing of the past. The belief that you can counter this
invasion of the people by parliamentary-democratic half-measures is childish and just as naive
as Metternich’s methods when the national drives for unification were making their way
through the nineteenth century. The lack of a truly social, new form of life results in the lack
of the mental will to resist not only in the nations but also in the lack of the moral power of
resistance of their leaders. In all countries we see that the attempted renaissance of a
democracy has proved fruitless."
Lol.
Отредактировано Shortpower; 20 мар. 2024 г. в 0:51
Автор сообщения: CrabNicholson
:nwfail:
“As for the two or three million men whom we need to accomplish this task, we'll find them quicker than we think. They'll come from Germany, Scandinavia, the Western countries and America. I shall no longer be here to see all that, but in twenty years the Ukraine will already be a home for twenty million inhabitants besides the natives. In three hundred years, the country will be one of the loveliest gardens in the world. As for the natives, we'll have to screen them carefully. The Jew, that destroyer, we shall drive out. As far as the population is concerned, I get a better impression in White Russia than in the Ukraine. We shan't settle in the Russian towns, and we'll let them fall to pieces without intervening. And, above all, no remorse on this subject! We're not going to play at children's nurses; we're absolutely without obligations as far as these people are concerned. To struggle against the hovels, chase away the fleas, provide German teachers, bring out newspapers—very little of that for us! We'll confine ourselves, perhaps, to setting up a radio transmitter, under our control. For the rest, let them know just enough to understand our highway signs, so that they won't get themselves run over by our vehicles! For them the word "liberty" means the right to wash on feastdays. If we arrive bringing soft soap, we'll obtain no sympathy. These are views that will have to be completely readjusted. There's only one duty: to Germanise this country by the immigration of Germans, and to look upon the natives as ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ (Native Americans). If these people had defeated us, Heaven have mercy! But we don't hate them. That sentiment is unknown to us. We are guided only by reason.”
His public speeches were bad enough, behind closed doors he really do just drop all pretexts.
Отредактировано Shortpower; 20 мар. 2024 г. в 1:34
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