I cannot get the hang of recon

[Ironside12]

I'm playing against an Easy AI for reference. In games like this I'd quite comfortably start at Normal and I tried, but I cannot, for the life of me, figure out how recon actually works.

Half the time it's my recon that's spotted on the treeline defensively, and then all my units in that area are being shelled and obliterated. Yet people are recommending in other threads that it's okay to have recon out in the open field sometimes because of their stealth stat, but even with high stealth I'm being spotted in trees?

I'm at a loss, honestly. I have cover and can be spotted but their recon may be in the open and spotting me?

I know it's hard to fully tell what's wrong in this case without photos but I just rage quit without screenshots, but if anyone has general tips around recons defensive and offensive use, I'd appreciate it.

[Abacus]

turning off their weapons helps.

Make sure they are supporting something, and not trying to cover flanks, etc. Defending holes in the line, is better left to cheap infantry.

Use spotters for the heavy equipment, like tanks, bombs, arty.

[wux]

If i am not mistaken units that have their stealth "active", meaning they are not being spotted by anything, have their icon blinking. This is a good way to keep track are your units spotted or not.
Also consider that the AI has absolute awareness, meaning its faster than us and that as soon as enemy units spot your units second later mortars and artillery have their orders to engage.

Best advice i'd give is to move your recon units slowly using vision tool to keep track of what they can see, as from every inch they can see they can also be seen back. Absolutely put them on return fire as Caiman said as most of the recon units are not good at fighting and you don't want them to engage anything.
Also as soon as you notice that your units are spotted (via icon not blinking, shells coming down or they started to engage) get them out of there, once things calm down you can easily move them back to the position.
When on defence try to position your recon units as far baack as you can, using churches and hills with good overview. This way enemy will engage your units on the frontline and won't see your recon but you will see them very well.
Another advice is to prioritize enemy recon, as soon as you spot one focus on them. AI will also be blind without recon.

For the end, it can be done, as an example i had my recon unit in the church on return fire. Two or three enemy infantry units came to about 300m from them but didn't see them and engaged infantry unit three houses to the right and a machine gun in the woods in the back.

[MR. LOOSE MOOSE]

Originally posted by Ironside12:

I'm playing against an Easy AI for reference. In games like this I'd quite comfortably start at Normal and I tried, but I cannot, for the life of me, figure out how recon actually works.

Half the time it's my recon that's spotted on the treeline defensively, and then all my units in that area are being shelled and obliterated. Yet people are recommending in other threads that it's okay to have recon out in the open field sometimes because of their stealth stat, but even with high stealth I'm being spotted in trees?

I'm at a loss, honestly. I have cover and can be spotted but their recon may be in the open and spotting me?

I know it's hard to fully tell what's wrong in this case without photos but I just rage quit without screenshots, but if anyone has general tips around recons defensive and offensive use, I'd appreciate it.

Every unit has the ability of recon, some do it better than others. Recon is the best, tanks are generally the worst for recon, and recon tanks can see because they are recon.

There is no guarantee you will succeed even if you do everything correct. You will have to learn how to adapt and also learn what is important. What do you need to see if your resources are limited?

Fact: If there are no units to see the enemy, you wont see the enemy.

It is a good idea to know exactly what your unit is looking at, use the "c" key to see or there is another option to see if you look into it by clicking an icon on the screen.

[Ironside12]

Originally posted by wux:

If i am not mistaken units that have their stealth "active", meaning they are not being spotted by anything, have their icon blinking. This is a good way to keep track are your units spotted or not.
Also consider that the AI has absolute awareness, meaning its faster than us and that as soon as enemy units spot your units second later mortars and artillery have their orders to engage.

Best advice i'd give is to move your recon units slowly using vision tool to keep track of what they can see, as from every inch they can see they can also be seen back. Absolutely put them on return fire as Caiman said as most of the recon units are not good at fighting and you don't want them to engage anything.
Also as soon as you notice that your units are spotted (via icon not blinking, shells coming down or they started to engage) get them out of there, once things calm down you can easily move them back to the position.
When on defence try to position your recon units as far baack as you can, using churches and hills with good overview. This way enemy will engage your units on the frontline and won't see your recon but you will see them very well.
Another advice is to prioritize enemy recon, as soon as you spot one focus on them. AI will also be blind without recon.

For the end, it can be done, as an example i had my recon unit in the church on return fire. Two or three enemy infantry units came to about 300m from them but didn't see them and engaged infantry unit three houses to the right and a machine gun in the woods in the back.

Thanks for the feedback mate, I do have a question though.

With having recon pulled back a bit behind the main line, are they as effective at spotting as they would be near the front? Because would it not be harder for them to spot approaching forces from further back, or does the spotting vs stealth mechanic not take distance into account? Or is this a good tactic due to the fact that the enemy will be out in the open, and pushing, so the recon will still be able to spot them, before the enemy spots your units in cover?

[Complex Strategy]

Originally posted by Ironside12:

Thanks for the feedback mate, I do have a question though.

With having recon pulled back a bit behind the main line, are they as effective at spotting as they would be near the front? Because would it not be harder for them to spot approaching forces from further back, or does the spotting vs stealth mechanic not take distance into account? Or is this a good tactic due to the fact that the enemy will be out in the open, and pushing, so the recon will still be able to spot them, before the enemy spots your units in cover?

Stealth does account distance to determine if it can be seen. Essentially a units spotting rating is compared vs a units stealth rating and that will determine how close a unit needs to be to actually see stuff. Also vet levels affects the spotting ability.
Generally you want recon units relatively close the frontline sitting at the end of a forest, in some building, or a very common one is using the churches of various towns that has excellent line of sight all around them. A 2 man team in that are essentially map hacks lol.

[isemados]

the system makes, that you need to do ALOT of movement, and control work.

but it doesnt offer fast controls

in the wars of frederick the great, LOTS of movement happens. You need automatisation

thats why this game is broken for me. you need to babisit EVERY single intelligence that SCOUTS do for the commander not vice versa

[Chrisca]

Originally posted by Ironside12:

Originally posted by wux:

If i am not mistaken units that have their stealth "active", meaning they are not being spotted by anything, have their icon blinking. This is a good way to keep track are your units spotted or not.
Also consider that the AI has absolute awareness, meaning its faster than us and that as soon as enemy units spot your units second later mortars and artillery have their orders to engage.

Best advice i'd give is to move your recon units slowly using vision tool to keep track of what they can see, as from every inch they can see they can also be seen back. Absolutely put them on return fire as Caiman said as most of the recon units are not good at fighting and you don't want them to engage anything.
Also as soon as you notice that your units are spotted (via icon not blinking, shells coming down or they started to engage) get them out of there, once things calm down you can easily move them back to the position.
When on defence try to position your recon units as far baack as you can, using churches and hills with good overview. This way enemy will engage your units on the frontline and won't see your recon but you will see them very well.
Another advice is to prioritize enemy recon, as soon as you spot one focus on them. AI will also be blind without recon.

For the end, it can be done, as an example i had my recon unit in the church on return fire. Two or three enemy infantry units came to about 300m from them but didn't see them and engaged infantry unit three houses to the right and a machine gun in the woods in the back.

Thanks for the feedback mate, I do have a question though.

With having recon pulled back a bit behind the main line, are they as effective at spotting as they would be near the front? Because would it not be harder for them to spot approaching forces from further back, or does the spotting vs stealth mechanic not take distance into account? Or is this a good tactic due to the fact that the enemy will be out in the open, and pushing, so the recon will still be able to spot them, before the enemy spots your units in cover?

Welp, it depends on how much recon you have and what kind of those it is. 2/5 man recon teams are bs at combat, don't even expose them because they will be killed very soon. However. for 7/12 man squads, you can effectively use them as frontline recce. They don't provide to cap progress, so they are the best to infiltrate and flank tanks, enemies,etc.

If they get MGs and snipers, they can be put alongside tanks and offer frontline spotting against AT guns, MGs, you name it (and will supress those relatively faster than tanks with only their gun. Recce vehicles suffer from being in the middle (not too much vision to facecheck bushes, but not too few to be chewed by anything), but depending on the gun and model can be really good options to mop up infantry (anything with a 20mm and a MG attached to it).