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There were Axis units made up of French volunteers though, but they were fighting under German uniforms (i.e. the LVF was the German verstärktes Französisches Infanterie-Regiment 638, Sturmbrigade Frankreich or Charlemagne Division) or were paramilitary units.
Vichy's army, after having fought the Allies under its own banner in several occasions (Syria-Lebanon, Madagascar, Dakar), in its overwhelming majority joined them (Armée d'Afrique) or was disarmed by the Germans (metropolitan troops) after the Allied landings in N. Africa.
That said, during our timeframe and theater(s) ...
* LVF is featured ingame as part of Korück 559.
* Sturmbrigade Frankreich was attached to 18. SS and was only engaged in Czechoslovakia if I recall.
* Charlemagne didn't exist at the time of Bagration (or even Vistula campaign). It was later formed from remanants from the two units above + any French citizen serving in German units or organizations (Kriegsmarine, Rollbahn, OT, ...).
This sentence is just utter bs. The whole french army fought the germans 39-40 and the resistance was pretty big aswell + after liberation alot of french fought the germans again in the reformed free french army forces. The amount of french soldiers in the wehrmacht wasnt even enough for 1!!!! full size division.....
* LVF was expected to enlist about 15.000, but less than 6.000 were effectively recruted.
* Sturmbrigade Frankreich never managed to form two full infantry battalions, so it must have been around 1.500 men tops.
* Charlemagne, even by scraping the bottom of the barrel in the whole German armed forces (and including the survivors of the two previous units), only managed to gather under 8.000 men. That's only 2/3 of an infantry division's theorical strength.
That would be around 15.000 men, although some here are accounted twice (in Charlemagne) but let's round up to that number for unaccounted smaller units or paramilitary units (Phalange Africaine, ...).
On the other hand, over 3.000.000 Frenchmen served in the French army by the time of the 1940 campaign.
Between the capitulation and Summer 1943, when they were disbanded when France recovered North Africa and Free France ceased to be in exile, almost 75.000 soldiers had enlisted in the Free French Forces. Around one third were African troops, another third Middle-East ones or other colonial troops, the rest Frenchmen (16.000) or Légionnaires (5.000).
That's still more than the LVF, Sturmbrigade & Charlemagne combined.
And from then on, the former Vichy's Armée d'Afrique joined the fight with the Allies. Between 1942 and 1945, over 400.000 men fought Axis troops in N. Africa, Italy, France & Germany. Just under half of that number were Frenchme, the rest colonials.
Operation Anvil-Dragoon alone landed 200.000 French troops in Provence. And with the influx of FFI (partisans) volunteers joined their ranks and amalgamating within the French First Army, that number more than doubled by the end of the war.
MadMat is our pride and joy. Wait till they start working on Napoleonic era game, he'll become an unending fount of historical trivia
you dont realise how much praise madmat deserves tbh, hes constantly here, checking reddit, and dealing with the outcrys of his beta testing team :D
on top of all this hes part of the game balance team, i dont know where he finds the time
Don't you see his avatar? He's channeling his inner Napoleon
"Last Unit to Surrender in Berlin is French"
By Mat's standard there were more Germans fighting for the allies than axis fighting for the allies. Since there were 10 million German POWs being used for auxillary labor in 1945 versus a maximum 7.8 million in the field.
Mats standards? he didnt talk about any PoW workers or anything, Vitchy france was militarily a neutral country and sure last unit to surrender was french but that was because they knew surrendering wouldnt be nice for them as most of france hated the nazis and even more any one working with the nazis.
So yeah french forces fighting for wehrmacht were real small... and nowhere near the french forces on the allied side.
Also curious weasel language going from "France as part of the Axis" to "French forces in the Wehrmacht" Of course the Wehrmacht was a German only force and anyone who wasn't identified as German would be part of an Auxilliary like the ROA. I guess by your logic they weren't French either.
Oh BTW the Wehrmacht recruited from occupied France because they considered them German. That's where most of the French POWs from 1940 ended up. Unless they were African, then they were just murdered.
You'll never have a consensus in the end hahahahaha
The "German Legion of SS & Fallschirmjäger", the "Sturmbattalions at Dien Bien Phu where orders were given in German", ... fighting the Indochina War in place of the French is (mostly) a myth. Actually, it was one crafted and repeatedly used by the French communist party and the Soviet press to denounce the dirty war against their Vietnamese brothers.
But as always with every legend, it has a root of truth.
Indochina during & after WW2 accounted for a lot of German légionnaires, for several reasons:
When WW2 broke in Europe, the Légion, as is its way, offered German & Italian légionaires not to fight in Europe in order not to be placed in a position to fight their own. Those whom took the offer where transfered to N. Africa and the 3rd REI in Indochina. And when France capitulated and Germany asked for the Legion to deliver its German enlisted men, the latter managed to move most of those still in N. Africa to Indochina.
Therefore, but for some die-hard anti-fascists Germans & Italians which remained in Europe, many of whom would later form the nucleaus of the Free French 13e DBLE (alongside Republican Spaniards and many Frenchmen escaped from occupied France), most of the Légion's German volunteers were concentrated in the 3e REI in Indochina.
When Japan staged its March 9th, 1945 coup against the French colonial administration in Indochina, many of those Légionnaires were killed or captured.
When Japan capitulated and France (with British help) returned to Indochina, 3e REI was reinstated as the Légion's traditionnal unit in Indochina (many others would join in later: 13e DBLE, 2nd & 5e REI, 1er REC and, of course, the legendary 1er & 2nd BEP or RC4 & DBP fame). Most surviving German légionnaires were repatriated in Europe.
That's the end of the first chapter of the "German Légion" in Indochina.
When the Indochina War broke between France and the Vietminh, Légion recruiting officer did tour Wehrmacht POW camps to offer those men a way out through a three-year contract with the Légion. French POW camps in 1945-1946, when France was in ruins and the civilian population starving, weren't a nice place to be, hence many POWs volunteered.
But they were Wehrmacht, not SS or FJ, which were theoratically banned from enlisting. In theory only, for as long as one wasn't clearly identified as SS, the Légion wasn't too picky. But SS were never actively seeked (they made just under 10% of the German volunteers, not even the whole légionnaires), nor were French collaborators. The latter would only be granted the chance to enlist in the BILOM, a penal unit with no promise of sentence reduction, although at the end of their three-years contract, volunteers were accepted in the Légion when BILOM was disbanded.
In 1949, at the end of their three-year contract, most of the German volunteer returned to Europe, with only a few staying in Indochina whom, with two more years under their belt would again form a strong core of NCO (aside from outstanding individuals, no one becomes an NCO before 5 years in the Légion).
That's the end of the second chapter of the "German Légion" in Indochina.
By then, a new batch of German volunteers enlisted, but they were very young: 18-20 years old, most of them at best in the Hitlerjugend (the organization, not the division) during WW2. Germany was in an even worst shape than France in the first years after 1945 and for many young Germans with no prospect of living or even surviving in Germany, enlisting in the Légion was a way to survive. And with France being an occupying power in Germany, Légion recruiting offices were easy to find in Germany and enslisted droves of desperate youths between 1946-49.
But those, whom would fight most major battles of the Indochina War (RC4, Day River, Na San, Dien Bien Phu), had nothing to do with SS, FJ or collaborators. And unlike their predecessors, many would reenlist at the end of their contract, having found in the Légion something of their lost families. At the same time, with the situation in Germany getting better, the German pool of volunteers slowly diminished, replaced by early escapees from communist East-European countries (many Hungarians & Poles, some Russians, Ukrainians, ...) before the Iron Curtain fell.
Over the course of the Indochina War (1946-1954), volunteers to the Légion can broken down as follow:
* Germanic (German-speaking Swiss, Germans & Austrians): 46% of foreigners / 34% overall Légion (French included, with cadres).
* Latin (Italian & Spanish): 26% / 22%
* Anglo-Saxons: <1% / <1%
* East-Europeans: 12% / <1%
* Other Europeans (Dutch, Belgians, Greeks, ...): 12% / 10%
* the rest being Frenchmen or French-speaking foreigners.
The breaking down is based on languages instead of nationalities, for the nationality given by the volunteers can be false. Otherwise, Swiss, Belgium & Monaco (easy fake countries for French or Germans willing to avoid declaring their true identity) would be the greatest provider of légionnaires ever! :)
With an estimate 70.000 légionnaires serving in Indochina over the course of the war, 38% of "Germanic" volunteers (therefore, including non-German German-speaking nationals) means around 26.000 men. Of whom only under 10% of the first batch (1946-1949) may have been SS.
Therefore, far from "recruiting entire SS" to defend Indochina for France ... just enough to feed communist propaganda of the time, and legend to this day. ;)
This actually makes an important difference.
Hungary, Italy, Romania, Japan, Bulgaria & Slovakia were axis states, and thus fought in WW2 under their own flag. Although Finland wasn't, it was a "co-belligerent State" alongside axis.
And ingame, Hungarian or Finnish troops are featured under their own flag, while Vichy French LVF & Free French Normandy squadron are displayed as, respectively, German & Soviet troops, for although composed of French volunteers and speaking French, both were serving within German & Soviet units.
For the same reasons:
* Republican Spaniards Nueve in the Free French 2e DB are featured under a French flag.
* Osttruppen & RONA are featured under a German flag.
* Obcokrajowcy (meaning Foreigners) in the AK, although made mostly of Hungarians, are featured under a Polish flag.
* in SD1, DBSAS' Soviet Ralliés & 716. Infanterie's Italian Bersaglieri were respectively featured under French & German flags. And 7th Armoured's North Irish Hussars under British flag! (let's wait how long it takes for that one to ingnite a flame war ;).
Indeed.
And should we one day feature the Charlemagne division, it will be under a German flag ... yet speaking French. While Vichy French troops fighting the British, Australian & Free French in Syria during Operation Exporter would be featured under the Vichy flag.
You seem to be confusing the "Malgré-Nous" (litteraly "Against-Our-Will"), Frenchmen from Alsace, Lorraine & Moselle which were suddenly considered Germans and drafted by force (hence the name) in the WH & SS when those departements were annexed by the Reich, with 1940 POW.
AFAIK, no organized attemp was made by the Germans to recruit volunteers from French POWs, or maybe those among them from the annexed departement mentionned above.