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Here is some overview from SDL league tournaments, for people who would actually like to check the win rate stats:
https://youtu.be/bDJewR1FANE?si=Yf0iIoZBs8RIO6mI&t=672
(edited for timestamp)*
In fact I would say my win rate is higher as Allies.
Germans do not always win at all.
12:10
"For 10v10 maybe it is"
Germans don't always win AT ALL.
New players, and those who don't think while playing, just feed units into heavy german tanks. Once they got over that hump the game because much easier.
Most of the best players I know play more allies. I win far more games as Allies, and that definitely includes 10v10.
1. Your original post was clearly wrong ( "always win" )
2. 10v10 usually are full of new people, there are a lot of people who quit halfway through and a lot of people who have no idea what they are doing. (hence the edge of german/russian divisions because people lack the knowledge on how to stop heavy tanks (KT, IS-2, Elefant)
3. Are you implying that a game should be balanced around 10v10 fun mode. Perhaps SC Brood War/ SC 2 is badly balanced because 4v4 are imbalanced -_-;
Nice, can't wait meet most of the best players to win as allies.
1. "80 - 90% winrate"
there are no statistics to be found on 10v10 winrate but it is obvious that germans win most of the time. My winrate is 30% as allies in 50 matches. Including the ones I played vs bots. Otherwise it would be around 15-20%
2. And so what if people are new? There are people new and quitting on both sides.
You saying needing knowledge to know how to stop german tanks but not the other way around is not balanced.
3. 10v10 is the most popular gamemode. It would be wise to make it balanced.
Sc2 is known for its competitive 1v1 everyone knows that.
When I bought this game i heard about 10v10 and the most people are in lobbies in 10v10.
Nor are Battlegroups.
Just like one battlegroup might be good at Heavy Tanks, but horrible at close range infantry or artillery.
Germans and Allies are good at different things.
Allies usually have MORE units, and German usually have more WELL ROUNDED units.
Germans tend to be more cookie cutter easier to understand for new players.
Such as Kingtiger kills all other tanks, or Panther is a nice tank that kills most Allied tanks but doesn't have a lot of trade offs.
Where as Allies are often different. They may have units in the support tab that act like heavy tanks but use HE shells.
Or they might have tanks that can kill easily, but also die easily, however the trade off is they are cheaper.
This tends to mean that newer players find Allies harder and think that Germans have the advantage.
As players learn the game though, trade offs start to make more sense, you learn about different units and what exactly units can do and not do, you learn the points economy of the game, and suddenly German doesn't look nearly as good.
You start realising you play a hefty price at times, for something you don't exactly need, when with allies you could be getting something that isn't as great all round, but does its job better.
For example Shermans mostly lose to Panthers. So Panthers are always better right ?
Well Shermans are far cheaper, readily available and the best out and out tank at ripping infantry to shreds. Panthers are very average at that, and in numbers Shermans can kill Panthers if you are smart. As Allies you can always bring out a few tanks cheaper than Panthers that can kill Panthers.
So as players become more experienced with the game, they tendency to like Allies goes up.
German infantry Grens for example are easy to use, Q forward and they shoot long range machineguns and kill things.
Allied infantry is often more for purpose, so if you ambush in that forrest with ROKs or sub machinegun squads, all those Grens will die right away.
But when you are new the Grens will eat your units up in the open as you don't know what stuff does or how to fight effectively.
But once you are experienced you will probably find a lot of Allied infantry to be superior (again some Battlegroups are good at different things). Just generally.
Allied can be harder to understand at first because of the way they are balanced at first, but as you learn it often becomes a better option.
They do not win ALL THE TIME. Not even close at all. As I said my win rate would be higher with Allies than German.
10v10 Allied planes and Arty can win the game almost by themselves.
Also with the recent 'fix' to Andryushas I expect some posts like "Allies OP" to start appearing for 10v10s. (its the nature of gamers)
Not gonna address point 2 since you just need to re-read it.
(I actually think Russian divisions like Vyborg are much much stronger than KT divisions in 10v10s, but that is personal opinion)
3. There is some truth to what you are saying here (about popularity of game modes) It comes down to a personal taste. I prefer SD2 as a 1v1 game. It is balanced around 1v1, anything else you start diluting division's specialities. The more divisions you combine together (bigger team games) the less weaknesses and strengths there will be, so everything will feel same-y.
At that point you might as well get rid of all divisions and just play 1 generic one for each player.
In terms of balance, the way I see it, I would agree with this. I recon if you had a pros' game 10v10 Allies would be favoured.
I do indeed, thank you.
Against german infantry two rules - ragne denial and range superiority. The first one. Never engage duble mg german squads in 750m range. Do it only below 500 and in cqc. One mg squad canbe engaged in 750 only by yours two mg equipped squads. The second rule Stg44 and Jeager squad and sturmpioniere like squads should be engaged above 500 and 750.
Generally allies required more open mind strategies sometitmes blunt force will be enough next time it will be the least efficient option. Generally for allies you play in game called area denied - make axis unit unable to operate in their enviroment. Germans have better tools for blunt force and easy tactic, and when you play like them you'll beaten. When you won't give them oportunities to use simple tactic you win,
Games balance is asimmetrical, both sides are eqall. But it is like in Hobbes state of nature understanding than today one. You and your opponet are equal in possbilites not it status. If he is stronger you need to be clever.
Allies have everything to mow german heavy armour... but no one care to do it. Allies have better planes, arty and Soviets have 300mm MLRS that can one-shot even King-Tiger. But such divisions are not popular (even if they're strong in team-games), so in many cases everyone pick light divisions and can't do anything against tanks. It's 100% on players, not balance problem. And if you have a few such players - they just win the game for you with all killed heavy armour... but, again, almost everyone ignore such divisions. Or Fedyunkina with heavy AT-gun that can frontally pen even KT.
It's impossible to balance players choices - aforementioned divisions are pretty strong, and they have everything that they need against heavy tanks.
And it's not true that there's no similar situations. Without good arty decks on Axis side, they would lose arty battle on map in 90% times. Without proper CQC decks that sometimes no one pick - they can't contest deep woods against allied decks. Like central forest on Tannenberg, and so on and so on. Every side have their strong/weak points, can you utilise them in practice or pick them at all - different question. Again, you have everything to dominate Axis - but no one care, actually, I personally picked KT-killer decks was almost always on 1st place in the end of the match with them.
It can't be balanced physically. Impossible even in theory. Balance in 10v10 depends on division picks of all players (as I talked above about CQC, arty, tanks etc).
In 1v1 you balance divisions (and it's still useful for 10v10), in 10v10 you should balance division combos - and it would instantly crumble against other combos.
Allies, in general, harder to play but have higher skill-ceiling. Even in 10v10, skilful allied players almost always would be above Axis players score-wise. And Axis much more noob-friendly in team-games.
In regards to wanting 10 v 10 mode to be "balanced", it's been stated many, many times before that 10 v 10 is strictly a non-competitive, for-fun mode that is impossible to balance and a waste of resources to attempt such.
i'd say this game really shines in 1v1. but 2v2 and 3v3 can be good especially if you team with friends.