Infantry anti tanks weapons

[✠Cherrybomb✠]

Beside the broken infantry in general after the last two patches there is one aspect of infantry combat feeling unpolished since the arrival of western armies. The anti tank capabilities of infantry.

The Panzerschreck is a great anti tank weapon with exceptional potential, but with high risk and low vitality as well. Except some examples you're just getting the Panzerschreck within two man squads. The precision of 90%, damage of 12 and armour percing of 200mm is without doubt at the pinnacle. That makes it a vulnerable, but effective weapon.

The Panzerfaust is the stamped kid of infantry anti tank. The range is with 120m only 20m longer than the at-grenates, but with much longer aimtime and short ammunition storage. Even the damage is with 10 below the expection of an 149mm warhead. The sight in thinly grown forrests is 150m causing the panzerfausts effective in that areas to a low value. Fast reload after the years long aimtime and great penetration can't really balance the weaknesses. The Panzerfaust is the worst perfoming of all anti tank rockets.

At-grenades of Germany and Russia are totally equal in damage of 10, range of 100m, penetration of 300mm, ect. and are most likely in the right position of all at weapons.

The Bazooka is the kid that got a bit too much love of their parents. The penetration of 180mm is (depending on the source) 80mm - 100mm above the real value. But even with smaller caliber than the Panzerfaust and Panzerschreck it got 10 damage able to one shoot everything except super heavies at the range of 250m. The precision of 80% isn't much worse than the panzerschreck, but with higher rate of fire. The best thing about the Bazooka is the possibility to get it with a squad of lines of infantry for the same price as a Panzerschreck as well as the awesome avaibility of the two man squads.

The PIAT has about 50mm - 75mm more pen than it's real counter part, again depending on the source. Weird about the PIAT is the damage of 12 compared to Bazooka. Precision is like the real one terrible, but rate of fire of 7 and range of 200m is very decent. Special about the PIAT is like Bazooka great avaibility of two man squads and widely use within line infantry.

My solution to bring some balance to these weapons:

Panzerfaust: range - 120m -> 150m
damage - 10 -> 12

Bazooka: range - 250m -> 200m
penetration - 180mm -> 100mm

PIAT: range - 200m -> 150m
penetration - 150mm -> 100mm
damage - 12 -> 10

Additionally the usage of Panzerschreck was very very low on the russian side. The extraordinary availability of russian Panzerschrecks have no historical context and feels inappropriate in balance wise. The russian Panzerschrecks should only available in Phase A to reduce the number like it was done with Tiger II.

As always feel free to copy my suggestion for the next balance patch, Eugen.

Stay safe!

[ruojility]

i don't know why you could claim PZSCK was rare on russian side when not only AT squads but also many of its sappers in real life used them.

I also don't know why you think panzerfaust should get 12 dmg with its little warhead, and why you think panzerfaust should get double range but not double pen for bazooka.
seems like your usual "axis too weak" stuff.

Regarding AT aimtime, forever aim time is a bug, which has been reported.
the 20m extra range makes a difference, especially with MG suppression buff.

A little tweak might be good, but i don't think your solution would work.
Who knows tho, with the supposed infantry rework we might be getting a completely new AT system.

[Benito Vassilini]

Originally posted by ✠Cherrybomb✠:

+1

[✠Cherrybomb✠]

Originally posted by ruojility:

i don't know why you could claim PZSCK was rare on russian side when not only AT squads but also many of its sappers in real life used them.

I also don't know why you think panzerfaust should get 12 dmg with its little warhead, and why you think panzerfaust should get double range but not double pen for bazooka.
seems like your usual "axis too weak" stuff.

"Even the damage is with 10 below the expection of an 149mm warhead." as mentioned above...

The Sappers used captured Panzerfaust, if they captured some. The Panzerschreck was introduced in 1944 some month before Bagration. What do you think how many of these weapons + ammunition the russians captured to claim that many sappers used them? Additionally the Panzerschreck needed a specialized crew to work unlike the simple Panzerfaust.

[ruojility]

Originally posted by ✠Cherrybomb✠:

Originally posted by ruojility:

i don't know why you could claim PZSCK was rare on russian side when not only AT squads but also many of its sappers in real life used them.

I also don't know why you think panzerfaust should get 12 dmg with its little warhead, and why you think panzerfaust should get double range but not double pen for bazooka.
seems like your usual "axis too weak" stuff.

"Even the damage is with 10 below the expection of an 149mm warhead." as mentioned above...

The Sappers used captured Panzerfaust, if they captured some. The Panzerschreck was introduced in 1944 some month before Bagration. What do you think how many of these weapons + ammunition the russians captured to claim that many sappers used them? Additionally the Panzerschreck needed a specialized crew to work unlike the simple Panzerfaust.

thus only the divisions launching OP bagration + 10-y GV. Tanks (A bit latter in time frame) got them, with 1 card at most. I don't think it's too much to justify a nerf

In return for unable to one-shot Super heavy it gets 90% acc for its curved ballistic, I don't think that's too bad of a trade.

[BlackFoxSamaki]

Man you have to be one seriously deluded wehraboo to want the PIAT to be nerfed. I think these are probably the worst suggestions I've ever seen on the forums. Most wehraboos at least try to pretend they give a crap about balance but you just decided to throw all that pretense out the window and let everybody know that you just want the Axis to win every game.

Seriously, you want to nerf the PIAT of all things? Even with my reputation on the forums I wouldn't suggest something as flat out stupid as just nerfing the weak units of the side I don't like. And someone said my opinions were all garbage, well I'm not the one saying the worst infantry AT in the whole game should be nerfed...

[✠Cherrybomb✠]

Originally posted by BlackFoxSamaki:

Man you have to be one seriously deluded wehraboo to want the PIAT to be nerfed. I think these are probably the worst suggestions I've ever seen on the forums. Most wehraboos at least try to pretend they give a crap about balance but you just decided to throw all that pretense out the window and let everybody know that you just want the Axis to win every game.

Seriously, you want to nerf the PIAT of all things? Even with my reputation on the forums I wouldn't suggest something as flat out stupid as just nerfing the weak units of the side I don't like. And someone said my opinions were all garbage, well I'm not the one saying the worst infantry AT in the whole game should be nerfed...

Wanna try some arguments to point out against my ideas next time?

I'm main allies as well...

[BlackFoxSamaki]

Originally posted by ✠Cherrybomb✠:

Originally posted by BlackFoxSamaki:

Man you have to be one seriously deluded wehraboo to want the PIAT to be nerfed. I think these are probably the worst suggestions I've ever seen on the forums. Most wehraboos at least try to pretend they give a crap about balance but you just decided to throw all that pretense out the window and let everybody know that you just want the Axis to win every game.

Seriously, you want to nerf the PIAT of all things? Even with my reputation on the forums I wouldn't suggest something as flat out stupid as just nerfing the weak units of the side I don't like. And someone said my opinions were all garbage, well I'm not the one saying the worst infantry AT in the whole game should be nerfed...

Wanna try some arguments to point out against my ideas next time?

I'm main allies as well...

Here's my argument:
You want to nerf the PIAT.

That alone is enough to expose your insane level of bias and invalidate all of your nonsense. Christ, even I wouldn't want to nerf something like the panzerfaust and here you are saying the worst infantry AT in the whole game needs to be made even worse because... you don't like the Allies.

[TREIBJAGD Der_Grüneteufel]

That sounds reasonable it is a compromise of the two sides prophecies and also aberions historically enforceable to at least of the ratios of values of the principle of representation of anti-tank weapons

[BlackFoxSamaki]

Originally posted by ✠Cherrybomb✠:

Originally posted by BlackFoxSamaki:

Man you have to be one seriously deluded wehraboo to want the PIAT to be nerfed. I think these are probably the worst suggestions I've ever seen on the forums. Most wehraboos at least try to pretend they give a crap about balance but you just decided to throw all that pretense out the window and let everybody know that you just want the Axis to win every game.

Seriously, you want to nerf the PIAT of all things? Even with my reputation on the forums I wouldn't suggest something as flat out stupid as just nerfing the weak units of the side I don't like. And someone said my opinions were all garbage, well I'm not the one saying the worst infantry AT in the whole game should be nerfed...

Wanna try some arguments to point out against my ideas next time?

I'm main allies as well...

Oh wait, this is all something you set up to expose everyone that agrees with you as wehraboos, that's actually really smart.

[ruojility]

lol how many times are you gonna say you are main allies?
wanna show your ingame stats? or should we show it for you?

[✠Cherrybomb✠]

Originally posted by ruojility:

lol how many times are you gonna say you are main allies?
wanna show your ingame stats? or should we show it for you?

That's a personal decision, but stigmatize players in black and white is seemingly very important for some of you.

With my original post I stated out how I set the game balance in terms of realism as well as gameplay. I prefer 80% realism and 20% balance in that kind.

Still I didn't hear a single argument against my points in any term. Instead I was attacked personally here and at Discord, but that does not refute my opinion.

Stay safe!

[BlackFoxSamaki]

Originally posted by ✠Cherrybomb✠:

Originally posted by ruojility:

lol how many times are you gonna say you are main allies?
wanna show your ingame stats? or should we show it for you?

That's a personal decision, but stigmatize players in black and white is seemingly very important for some of you.

With my original post I stated out how I set the game balance in terms of realism as well as gameplay. I prefer 80% realism and 20% balance in that kind.

Still I didn't hear a single argument against my points in any term. Instead I was attacked personally here and at Discord, but that does not refute my opinion.

Stay safe!

You want the worst inf AT in the game to be worse. You don't give a crap about balance. You just want Axis to be superior in every way. Nobody wants to argue or discuss with you because it would be a waste of time. A reasonable person would say something like "Inf AT could be a bit better so give PIAT a bit better accuracy and the Panzerfaust a bit more range." but you say some incredibly stupid crap about making one of the already worst weapons in the game even worse and only improving the weapons of the side you like. We all have our own thoughts on just how exactly the game should be balanced but people like you want the game to be pointlessly boring with only one faction able to compete at all; and I can only guess why you specifically want the Axis to be the only viable faction and I bet it has to do with your personal ideology.

[Dogmeat]

i think AT is OP because atm they only get 1 shot and then dead, so its a balance thing not optimal for my taste but i play commado small games - i found giving infantry a bit more stealth and cover i had to nerf AT weapons a bit to rebalance - but for sure the ammunition/stats for PIAT and Panzerfaust are bit similar in abilty, i think the Piat was almost silent from memory that was its one advantage being spring loaded, The (piat) also lobed it in more of an arc more so was 'occasionally' meant to hit the top armour. Almost like a long range AT nade.

Also short ranges are ll a bit 'dramatic licence' Smg nade range etc being not what they were if 100% accurate not sure would work in the game so its some middle ground to find i reckon.

AT balance is effected by stealth and cover and tank optics, lots of stuff imvho,

Apologies wall of text but infantry stealth and AT have been my mission.

Edit : also not sure why HEAT shells (AT) always kill on a hit and never causes crits - that would be one small balance - maybe the damage they cause is all or nothing im not that up on explosive mechanics. *(Actually i remember taking a track off an KT with a Piat in SD44 but never seen since)

[AK - ActionMambels]

"Here's my argument:
You want to nerf the PIAT.

That alone is enough to expose your insane level of bias and invalidate all of your nonsense. Christ, even I wouldn't want to nerf something like the panzerfaust and here you are saying the worst infantry AT in the whole game needs to be made even worse because... you don't like the Allies." by BlackFoxSamaki


Sorry for the interruption but i have to say: this is not an argument at all. I dont want to personally attack you dont get me wrong.

This is just a claim based on the contempt of a specific person.
I would surggest you to hold your indviduell problems back. They dont gain any benefit for the development of the game.

Nevertheless i think even your opinion is an important influence for the community. So it would be comfortable if you act in an more civilized manner.

By the way the change for the PIAT seems to me a little bit harsh too.

[thugnightly]

Originally posted by BlackFoxSamaki:

Man you have to be one seriously deluded wehraboo to want the PIAT to be nerfed. I think these are probably the worst suggestions I've ever seen on the forums. Most wehraboos at least try to pretend they give a crap about balance but you just decided to throw all that pretense out the window and let everybody know that you just want the Axis to win every game.

Seriously, you want to nerf the PIAT of all things? Even with my reputation on the forums I wouldn't suggest something as flat out stupid as just nerfing the weak units of the side I don't like. And someone said my opinions were all garbage, well I'm not the one saying the worst infantry AT in the whole game should be nerfed...

I'd have to agree. The PIAT OCCASIONALLY is like a homing missle and kills everything but most of the time it can't hit the broad side of a barn. If anything, tank spotting should be nerfed back to the way it was so we can actually use AT infantry like they're supposed to be used. But, regardless, AT infantry is still the most effective in the game. There are tons of noobs that will drive their tanks into PZ grens and avtos.

Sapeurs in the french deck are still the best infantry in the game because of their bazooka and he grenade.