100m machine gun range work is ridiculous

[Name]

Why can't mg34's and mg42's when stationary (* not moving *) fire at enemy infantry that are ≤ 100 meters / 328 feet away? This distance is damn near the length of a football field and you're telling me my non-moving infantry can't use their guns?

I was so excited for the Toulons Kriegs Marine Boot Besatzung units with their 3x mg34 load out but now I'm not so sure I'll have a use for them. You've essentially turned an expensive 35 point squad into a worthless riflemen squad with 5 mp40 bearing and 5 k98 bearing infantry able to engage targets in dense forest. Against avtomachiki and other PPSH bearing squads, they will get decimated within seconds.

I can understand mg34's and mg42's not being able to fire on the move by infantry, but for the infantry not being allowed to engage infantry at less than 100meter range with the machine gun is unbelievable.

[ChargingSnail]

All mgs will be affected so don't overreact.

[Der Kaiser]

as previously mention all mgs are being effected this way, that being said i think this is a completely stupid change for all factions because it makes a large amount of units completely powerless in cqc and forces them to only engage at range which is not always a good decision

[BlackFoxSamaki]

Strelki will have trouble with CQC now and PPSH will be weaker so I predict Axis will do just fine in CQC. Just don't try and use Panzergrenadiers for short range combat, get Pioneers or any other Axis CQC squad.

[DasaKamov]

It's an abstraction, sacrificing realism for the sake of gameplay. Dedicated CQC squads were underperforming in the area they should excel in (engagements under 100m). Now, pioneer squads with all-smg loadouts will stand a chance against rifle squads.

Also, this isn't some earth-shattering change to the meta. The "MG minimum range" mechanic also existed in SD: Normandy, and people didn't mind it then.

[Magnus Aurelius, Bright Lord]

100 meters is very small in game. No big deal.

[Dindomir]

100 meters in game is actually more like 30-40 m, like DasaKamov said, it's an abstraction for close quarters combat in a game where maps are measured in sq kilometers.

[thugnightly]

Its a stupid change. I don't understand why there even needs to be changes to MGs. No one was complaining about them.

BUT, Eugen will allow hellcats to be 50pts and pz3 to be 30 lol

[RakkoHug~<3]

It does sound a quite bit unusual , but I believe it may be a positive change to the overall game. :)

[badgerjelly]

I think it makes sense to do this as there was considerable problems with balancing out the value of such guns at range versus the value of CQC weaponry.

In terms of ‘realism’ (if that’s an issue) just view it as the squad preparing to shift locations so the guns are temporarily unavailable. If someone was running at me with smgs I’d prefer a less cumbersome weapon once they get up close.

I’m excited to see how this changes things up. I’m unsure what guns need to remain stationary to fire though?

[[EUG] MadMat]

Originally posted by Hauptmann:

100m machine gun range work is ridiculous

As always, actually testing the change before making peremptory comments might be a good idea.

Once tested, you'll realize that ingame, 100m almost see units on top of one another.

[ruojility]

Originally posted by EUG MadMat:

Originally posted by Hauptmann:

100m machine gun range work is ridiculous

As always, actually testing the change before making peremptory comments might be a good idea.

Once tested, you'll realize that ingame, 100m almost see units on top of one another.

that indeed

A small question regarding that tho
is there anyway to modify the LOS tool in game to display 100m as 60m (So it's more true to scale)?
I found the LOS tool file but can't modify the text it displays, only the range.

[KPSoulReaper]

Originally posted by DasaKamov:

It's an abstraction, sacrificing realism for the sake of gameplay. Dedicated CQC squads were underperforming in the area they should excel in (engagements under 100m). Now, pioneer squads with all-smg loadouts will stand a chance against rifle squads.

Also, this isn't some earth-shattering change to the meta. The "MG minimum range" mechanic also existed in SD: Normandy, and people didn't mind it then.

Agreed- Very Clear & Straight to the Point Dasa.

[Elettricità sovieta]

Originally posted by EUG MadMat:

Originally posted by Hauptmann:

100m machine gun range work is ridiculous

As always, actually testing the change before making peremptory comments might be a good idea.

Once tested, you'll realize that ingame, 100m almost see units on top of one another.

IMO, you should think about adding a limitation like this also to towed autocannons. ATM they are really too strong against tanks and infantry at close range, and I find this mechanic quite strange. Also, this would give a specific role to large recon squads, that at the moment are used more or less like standard infantry.

[Ser Maks]

In the meantime, USSR top assault squads (Sturmoviki, Faustniki, Gruppa Zachistki, Mot.Avtomatchiki) are stuck with mostly SMG loadouts plus single(and now completely useless) LMG...
And no one remembers that USSR also had automatic rifle - AVT-40...

[Raoule]

Its not that bad with the 100m limitation, we had it in the SD44 game too and it kinda worked there despite the slightly different scale. Also the arguments for close quarter squads is valid imo too. So the limit can be set for other smallarms like MGs or we would need a buff for SMGs, they just choose this way to solve the issue mentioned and its fine i guess.

For autocannons, the story is different: They should kill infantry fast, despite in the reality of WW2, those hand turned automatic guns hadnt this fast circle rate back then, so that inf could try to run out of the fire cone to avoid heavy casualties quite often in engagements if not ambushed.
It was possible, common and done frequently. Sadly, we cant do that in our game as you surely know, running and moving around is no valid way to avoid fire or raise evasion in SD2 atm :-(
Against tanks the autocannons are so deadly, because they receive a penetration bonus up to 45mm on top like all other AP shelling stuff. I guess this mechanic is implemented to let you compete in tanks fights agains superior armor with limited pen values.
Ofc it completely screw up such fast firing and low pen guns performance, making at rifles and 37 or 40mm barrel unit spam so unrealistic too for example. We would need to get rid of this mechanic obviously or just cap it for fast firing smaller caliber guns...