Soviet FoF divisions and historical discrepancies

[Ser Maks]

Sometime ago there was discussion on Steam and Discord about Finnish anachronistic units in the Fate of Finland DLC, and certain corrections were made.
Unfortunately, mistakes were made during research for Soviet divisions in the Fate of Finland as well, particulary in tank support for new divisions. This is understandable, as the 100% accuracy requires Soviet sources which in turn require Russian language and sometimes logic and sheer luck to understand. I post this feedback not to blame anyone, but to provide information.


Particulary problematic are Group Vyborg and 358-ya Rifle division.
1)Group Vyborg - “The Podv. Gruppa Vyborg was one of the most powerful of the Red Army’s “mobile” armored groups in the Karelia sector. Kept in reserve by the 21st Army to exploit a breakthrough when needed, the makeshift formation was chiefly built around the 220th Tank Brigade.”

Problems – well, its a lot. While in-game Group Vyborg includes 220th Tank Brigade, 27-th Guards Independent Heavy Tank Regiment with IS-2, 260-th Guards Independent Heavy Tank Regiment(Churchills and KV tanks) and 17-th Assault Sngineer-Sapper Brigade, according to Army General, actual “Mobile” armored group of the 21th army was built from 30-th Guards Tank Brigade(T-34, T-60 and T-70) and 27-th Guards Independent Heavy Tank Regiment with IS-2. 260-th OGTTP was providing tank support to advancing 64-ya Guards Rifle Division and wasn’t part of the mobile group.

Even more interesting, there was “Mobile” armored group including 220th Tank Brigade at the same time, but that one was front-level, created at 28.06.1944, stationed near Vyborg with orders to advance when 21st army will break through the Finnish defence, and led by major-general Hasin.
That group included 220th Tank Brigade(T-26, T-34, some SU-76), 1st Red Banner Tank Brigade, 26th Guards Independent Heavy Tank Regiment with IS-2, 1495th Self-propped artillery regiment with 16 SU-85, redeployed to Karelia from Narva, 1st Independent Armored Car Battalion with 21 BA-10, 82th Independent engineer-sapper battalion and company from 283 OMBON, aka light amphibious battalion. 4.07.1944 Front Mobile group was reinforced by 397th Independent Guards Self-propped artillery regiment with ISU-152. In the late July 1944 Front mobile group was relocated to Narva area and commited to the frontlines there, during the liberation of Estonia.

Another note – 4 SU-76P were part of the 1st Red Banner Tank Brigade, not 220th Tank Brigade. On the other hand, 220th Tank Brigade was only armored unit on the Isthmus still retaining T-26 light tanks.

Solutions – as seen above, Churchills and KV weren’t part of the Group Vyborg, and should be removed from it. On the other hand it should receive some additional T-34, T-60 and T-70 from 1st Red Banner Tank Brigade(not many, as 1st brigade took heavy losses breaking through Finnish lines prior to 28.06.1944), SU-85 regiment, and some OSNAZ. For the sake of balance I do not suggest that ISU-152 should be added(although it would be pretty fun).

2)358-ya Strelkovy division - “A veteran division from the first (failed) Soviet offensive against Vitebsk in 1943, 358-ya Strelkovy Div. (358th Rifle Division) was rebuilt and sent to the Leningrad theatre in early 1944. Spearheading the assault, it broke through three Finnish defensive lines and pushed the front all the way to Vyborg.”

Problems – there are 2 problems both related to its tank and AT tabs. First, and primary one: there was zero (0) ISU-122 on the Karelian Isthmus in June 1944. At all. Leningrad front deployed only SU-152, ISU-152, SU-76, and some SU-85 showed up later, but didn’t fought. Second, ISU-122S were produced from late August 1944 with large-scale production starting in September 1944, and didn’t fought on the Karelian Isthmus.
Also, T-26 support is very strange – as mentioned above, only Soviet T-26 unit on the Isthmus was 220th Tank Brigade and that one is busy with Group Vyborg(not sure about 152-ya Tank Brigade, through: docs from 59-ya Army indicate it had T-26 in early July, but historical books say 152-ya had only T-34, T-60 and T-70 at 10.06.44). Hm-m...

Solutions – from the Army General it looks like that multiplayer version of 358-ya is supported by 397th Independent Guards Self-propped artillery regiment. As seen above, that regiment used ISU-152, and so 358-ya ISU-122 need to be replaced by ISU-152.
Ideally, ISU-122S would be replaced too, but as this is DLC unit and I don’t think Eugen are willing to throw it away after all work done, I suggest only heavily limiting its availablity. Also, as there is 260-th OGTTP looking for home, I suggest sending to to support 358-ya, instead of T-26 it currently has(and toss some 57mm HE shells to Soviet Churchills, please).

As there are information that 16-ya, 26-ya and 84-ya GRD had ISU-122 support while storming Orsha, I suggest replace 26-ya ISU-152 with ISU-122. I also suggest to exclude SU-122, ISU-122, and ISU-122S from Karelia AG campaign, and replace T-34/76 in 27-th Independent Tank Regiment with T-34/85 as, according to research, Finnish Panssaridivisioona captured several T-34/85 from that Soviet unit.

Before anyone can start asking, I can prove my suggestions and solutions with historical research and original documents. All of it is on Russian, through. If any unit name would look strange, I’ve used Engilsh variants for Soviet units, wherever I could, but translation errors are more or less inevitable.

P.S. Apparently I have too much free time :((

[Frosted Flake]

I think all of the Army general OOBs could use a second pass.

Here's a straightforward one: I greatly prefer playing with the real unit names. However, the reinforcements tab continues to use the incorrect terminology.

This is especially glaring as the Soviets and muddles the OOB. I'm trying to deploy Korps, but the reinforcements tab tells me they are part of divisions!

I will say the OOB browser uses the correct notation and is useful.

A large improvement would be having options to see the OOB on-map. Toggling visible links between a chain of command and highlights on units within a shared formation would be an improvement. I would like to be able to quickly see how a division is arrayed, and make sure that the divisions don't get intermixed or their support units misdirected.

[Ser Maks]

Shameless bump and a bit more information :))

Originally posted by Ser Maks:

...only Soviet T-26 unit on the Isthmus was 220th Tank Brigade and that one is busy with Group Vyborg(not sure about 152-ya Tank Brigade, through: docs from 59-ya Army indicate it had T-26 in early July, but historical books say 152-ya had only T-34, T-60 and T-70 at 10.06.44)

I did some some further research about Soviet T-26 on the Isthmus in June 1944 after writing initial post. It confirmed, that at the begining of Vyborg Offensive at June 9, 220th Tank Brigade was only Soviet unit on the Isthmus with 21 T-26, 5 T-34/85, 1 T-34/76, 1 Radio T-34, 5 T-60, 2 SU-76, and 3 BA-10. At June 9, 220th Brigade conducted reconnaissance in force using its T-26-equipped units, which took heavy losses, and at June 16 reported only 14 T-26, 7 T-34 of various types, 17 T-60, 1 T-70, 4 SU-76, and 3 BA-10.
At June 23 brigade was redeployed towards Vyborg, without T-26 which were sent to training tank regiment, but with 20 new T-34/85 from the factories, and by June 30 had 35 T-34(including at least 20-25 T-34/85), 17 T-60, 1 T-70, 4 SU-76, and 3 BA-10.

Now to 152th Tank Brigade. At the begining of Vyborg Offensive, it spotted 33 T-34. 17 T-60, 4 T-70 and 4 SU-76. Sadly, I'm still yet to find Brigade log on the Summer 1944, which would clarify things, but at the early July during Battle of Vyborg Bay Brigade supported 59th Army landings with T-26-equipped tank company(10 tanks), and documents indicate that during planned landing operation on the northern shore, 152th Brigade was supposed to deploy 30 T-26, T-60 and T-70 tanks (how many of each, is not specified).
Later, in September 1944 in Estonia, brigade reported 21 T-26, 34 T-34 of various types, 5 T-60, 5 T-70, and 4 SU-76.

No other tank brigade on the Isthmus reported operational T-26 tanks in timeframe, only T-34, T-60 and T-70.

To summarise all of above: it seems that only one soviet unit on the Karelian Isthmus deployed T-26 tanks at the same time. First that was 220th Tank Brigade, then 152th Tank Brigade. Personally, I think that remainning T-26 from 220th Brigade, initially sent to training tank regiment, were transferred to 152th planned(and used) for landing operation, while 220th itself was planned for use as part of the armored group and recieved heavier stuff - new T-34.

Also, overall tl;dr.
Group Vyborg - correct division description, clarify that it was front-level formation. Add: 16 SU-85(Phase C count), 20-25 T-34/85 tanks, some T-60 and T-70 tanks, OSNAZ company. Remove: most of SU-76(only 4-5 can remain, 4 from 220th brigade and 1 from 1st Red Banner), all KV-1S and Churchill tanks. Optionally - remove T-26(its one or another with most of T-34/85)
358th Rifle Division - replace all ISU-122 with ISU-152, decrease ISU-122S availability. Optionally - remove T-26, add KV-1S and Churchill tanks from Group Vyborg.
Karelia army general campaign- remove all SU-122, ISU-122, and ISU-122S, replace them with SU/ISU-152. Replace T-34/76 in 27-th Independent Tank Regiment with T-34/85. Some other Soviet units in campaign may spot incorrect stuff too - I have table of 21st Army armored units at June 25 but yet to compare it with AG.

PS. And, yes, I know that all of above is wishful thinking.
P.P.S. some BT-5 love for 126 LRC? That regiment had around 5.

[Ser Maks]

Shameless bump №2 - Primary sources, and some historical info for modders(we'll get some DLC modding one day and Karelia AG campaing could use an improvement).

Table of 21st Army armored units at 08.00 25.06.1944:

109-th Rifle Corps(72-ya RD, 109-ya RD и 286-ya RD):
98-th Independent Tank Regiment - 7 T-34/85,
1439th Self-propped artillery regiment - 8 SU-152 and 1 KV-1S

30th Guard Rifle Corps(45-ya, 63-ya and 64-ya GRD):
27-th Independent Tank Regiment - 21 T-34/85,
260-th Guards Independent Heavy Tank Regiment - 3 Churchills and 7 KV-1,
394-th Independent Guards Self-propped artillery regiment - 19 ISU-152,
397th Independent Guards Self-propped artillery regiment - 21 ISU-152, 4 SU-57

97-th Rifle Corps(178-ya RD, 358-ya RD и 381-ya RD) -
1238-th Self-propped artillery regiment - 15 SU-76

108-th Rifle Corps(46-ya RD, 90-ya RD и 314-ya RD) -
124-th Independent Tank Regiment - 15 T-34

Army mobile Group -
30-th Guards Tank Brigade - 32 T-34, 6 T-60 and 3 T-70,
27-th Guards Independent Heavy Tank Regiment - 13 IS-2, 2 SU-57

Source(on Russian, sorry) - Иринчеев Б.К. Прорыв Карельского вала. Четвёртый сталинский удар.Издание второе. Исправленное и дополненное. — Выборг.: Военный музей Карельского перешейка, 2019. С. 177.
Same source partially used for info about 152-ya Tank brigade.

Source for 220-ya Tank brigade - TsAMO, F: 3273, Op: 1, D: 21 - it is 220-ya Tank brigade log(or war diary, I've seen that translation too)
Source about Group Vyborg real composition - TsAMO, F: 3273, Op: 0000001, D: 0014 - order of Leningrad front Armored and Mechanized Forces Command(Боевой приказ штаба БТ и МВ ЛенФ on Russian)
Source about 1495th Self-propped artillery regiment presence and deployment - TsAMO, F: 4454, Op: 0440016с, D: 0004 - said regiment log/War diary
Source about 1st Red Banner Tank Brigade - TsAMO, F: 3311, Op: 1, D: 34 - brigade log/War diary.
All TsAMO sources are Soviet military documents, taken from official Russian MoD portal "Pamyat Naroda".
Several additional daily reports from 1495th Self-propped artillery regiment and 1st Red Banner Tank Brigade, dating late Juny - early July 1944, were used to form suggestions and are present on "Pamyat Naroda", but not listed above - bit too many to hunt them down and I've spent around 2 hours writing this post already :((

P.S. Madmat will hate me, I guess...

[Ser Maks]

Shameless bump №3 - 7-y Mekh. Korpus.
No longer limiting myself to Fate of Finland DLC, this time I will try covering yet to be released Soviet division from Black Sunday in my(hopeless, tbh, but still fun) crusade for historical authenticity. I'm using division preview to cover discrepancies, so any of those listed may have been changed already(or may have not).

So, future in-game version of the 7-y Mekh. Korpus is said to rely mostly on T-34/76s tanks. This is correct - according to both Korpus log and 3rd Ukrainian Front Armored and Mechanized Forces Command reports, historical 7-y Mekh. Korpus reports 167 T-34 and does not specify their types. To be specific, at least one brigade does report having 85mm shells(and does not report any 85mm guns), through, so they may had some T-34/85, but no numbers - no questions.

"The last surviving SU-76i in service with the Red Army can be found with this division." - well, no. While much of the produced SU-76i were sent to 7-y Mekh. Korpus in late 1943, it does not look like any of those survived to August 1944(unlike SU-76P from Group Vyborg which are technically correct, btw). 3rd Ukrainian Front Armored and Mechanized Forces Command log does report divizion of captured German vehicles in the area, but it looks like those were captured StuG(18 vehicles) and Pz.III(3 vehicles) and not SU-76i. Said unit supported 46-ya Army units(not Gruppa Bakhtina, btw) till it ran out of fuel and was ordered to transfer remaining vehicles to disabled vehicle collection post(SPAM).

"The few remaining British lend-lease Matildas in the southern part of the Eastern Front are attached to this formation." - neither Korpus nor Front reports indicate any Matilda tanks present, so doubtful, while possible. Several support units from 37th Army were attached to 7-y Mekh, but those seem to be artillery units. Note - 7-y Mekh. Korpus report 20 122mm, 18 85mm, 105 76mm, 23 57mm, 23 45mm, and 81 37mm guns of unknown type, in addition to 57 120mm and 90 82mm mortars and 24 BM-13 Katyusha. It is not clear were those organic parts or attached to the Korpus.

"Lots of heavy support, in the form of SU-122, SU-152, and ISU-122S self-propelled guns." - partially correct. 7-y Mekh. Korpus reported 11 SU-152, 5 SU-122 and 23 SU-85 alongside T-34 and 1 KV tank of unspecified type. 0 ISU-122S reported and as mentioned in previous posts, ISU-122S production began only in August 1944, while 7-y Mekh. Korpus report 5 SU-122 as early as July 1944. Other 3rd Ukrainian Front Self-propped artillery regiments in proximity do not report any ISU-122 either, only SU/ISU-152.

"The Air tab is mostly made up of twin-engined Pe-2 variants, with P-40N fighters providing top cover." - not correct, at all. 7-y Mekh. Korpus was given massive aircraft support in form of two aviadivisions from 17th Air Army - 295th IAD(istrebiteli) and 306 ShAD(shturmoviki). 295th IAD operated La-5 fighters, according to division log, while 306 ShAD used IL-2, once again, according to division log. Logs of 17th Air Army itself do not report any P-40N fighters present and report merely 23 Pe-2 used only as recon aircraft.

Now, to the sources.
7-y Mekh. Korpus log/war diary: TsAMO, F. 3436, Op.1, D.57, LL.125-126
3rd Ukrainian Front Armored and Mechanized Forces Command log/war diary per May-October 1944: TsAMO, F. 243, Op.0002928, D.0067, L.14
16th Mechanized Brigade log/war diary: TsAMO, F. 3330, Op.1, D.11, L.50
17th Air Army log/war diary per August 1944: TsAMO, F. 370, Op.0006518, D.0302, LL.60,62
295th IAD log/war diary - TsAMO, F. 20541, Op.1, D.65, L.50
306 ShAD log/war diary - TsAMO, F. 20541, Op.1, D.69, LL.85,87,90