Devs please Re-adjust max ranges for smg weapons

[Obi-Rotta]

Assault teams with smgs are most frustrating units in game, they run super slow. (in this game every type of infantry moves at same speed??)
And they can't engage enemies if they are at 101m.
You can have 20 guys with smgs againts 5-10 man squad with boltaction rifles.
Rifleman can start firing at 500m and that makes it almost impossible to attack any units as assault teams, their only purpose is to camp next to crossroads or in middle of towns.
And they are not really valuable due to this. You could buff them so they could start shooting enemies at 150-250m range, of course accuracy would be pretty bad but they could pindown un experienced units.

[Acc got hacked]

Infantry moves at 16km/h, HMG moves at 14km/h, light towed gun moves at 11km/h, medium towed gun moves at 9km/h. The in-game movement speed is about 2 times of displayed speed; similarly for reload speed, weapon cool down etc.
You can use smoke to close distance, smoke last about 1 minute in game time.

[Obi-Rotta]

You do know that if you want to use smoke grenades that assault teams carry, their range is also 100m and you only have 3 smokes so it wont help much when trying to move somewhere.
But I don't undestand why people think that smg doesen't need range buff.
In original Steel Division Smg range was about 100m too but every other weapon had 50% less range.
Also in this game at 100m smg accuracy is about 60% so at 200m it could be 20-30%

[fakemon64]

just have an infantry squad with rifles or an lmg cover them while they move up to assault the enemy. smg teams by themselves are a chore to micro due to their range limitations, but once you group them with other types of infantry, they become much more proficient at actually closing the gap to do their job.

but personally, i think smg infantry are fine as they are. if they got more range they might kinda nudge their way into becoming too viable as just standard infantry. right now, with their range, they have a more distinct role that seperates how you use them compared to other infantry types.

[ÁS - EN/PT]

I agree with a 150m range

[Rabidnid]

Originally posted by Joruzhia:

Assault teams with smgs are most frustrating units in game, they run super slow. (in this game every type of infantry moves at same speed??)
And they can't engage enemies if they are at 101m.
You can have 20 guys with smgs againts 5-10 man squad with boltaction rifles.
Rifleman can start firing at 500m and that makes it almost impossible to attack any units as assault teams, their only purpose is to camp next to crossroads or in middle of towns.
And they are not really valuable due to this. You could buff them so they could start shooting enemies at 150-250m range, of course accuracy would be pretty bad but they could pindown un experienced units.

learn to play issue I'm afraid. SMGs are awesome as they are at the moment.

[dt Walter Robinson]

100m is generally considered to be the max effective range of SMGs.

If soldiers irl could make due, I'm confidant that you can too.

[Obi-Rotta]

Yea realism and all I don't think that it is realistic or fun that you can't shoot your smg at enemy that is 1-50m further away than your effective range.
You can shoot any AT weapon in this game up to 2000m and their effectiveness could be 0% penetration and less than 40% change of hitting it at certain targets.

And in this game, spots where you would move your smg team with AT weapons are next to roads or in cities but sometimes bushes/hiding spots where they go to cover next to that road is further than 100m so they can't engage enemies and then enemies spot that assault team aaand anhilate assault teams if you won't be throwing smokes and trying to catch up that 30m to get change to shoot back.

I just don't like how they have made assault teams in this game. Assault teams are not worth it in your deck because they are so limited by their range. And i am not asking for ability to start shooting at 300m or so on just little buff 50-100m depending on gun.

Also if you go googling about ww2 smg's effective firing range it varies, but usually it is 100-200m for example Mp-40 or Suomi KP is up to 200m ''effective'' where Ppsh-41 is to 100-150.
Also think about sniper teams in this game they can shoot almost 100% accuracy enemies running or driving cars at 1000m. Also engineer guys can toss 3kg satchel charges to 100m. I think that devs just forgot to buff smg range when they made this game.

[Jam292]

they are in a rough spot with smg teams. Their accuracy would need an overhaul if they extended the range to represent that at any range over 50m a rifle is preferred and over 100m a rifle is plain superior. and even then, the ROF of smg's would have to be reduced to represent it firing on semi-auto at these extended ranges. Some smgs weren't selective fire and required skilled trigger control to release a single round which should be considered whith vet bonuses or the lack of. It would become the only unit in the game with 2 different rates of fire depending on range, which probably is difficult for them to program. And even if they do it exactly right you should get roughly the same results when rifle squads engage smg squads at 100m or greater, with the rifles just dominating the engagement.

[Obi-Rotta]

Well they could just shoot bursts when over 100m range. And like I said accuracy could be something like 20-30% when at 150-200m.
At the moment accuracy is 50-70% (depending on unit and veterancy) at 100m what is their max firing range.
Main Idea of this would be that they could ambush better in some situations and suppress enemies at bit further range.

[dt Walter Robinson]

The odds of accurately hitting anything beyond 100m with SMGs plummets, as the bullets lose velocity and drop to the ground, which is why the term "maximum EFFECTIVE range" exists.

Anyway the irl limited engagement range of SMGs and the superfluous range of battle rifles helped usher in the assault rifle.

[Obi-Rotta]

Originally posted by The Ayatollah of Rock n' Rollah:

The odds of accurately hitting anything beyond 100m with SMGs plummets, as the bullets lose velocity and drop to the ground, which is why the term "maximum EFFECTIVE range" exists.

Anyway the irl limited engagement range of SMGs and the superfluous range of battle rifles helped usher in the assault rifle.

But this is game after all. And you do know that panzerfaust max effective firing range was about 60 meters and in game you can shoot panzerfaust from 120 meters and hit with over 90% accuracy

[dt Walter Robinson]

This isn't a discussion about panzerfausts though, is it?

[Marcomies]

I think there's pretty big inconsistency between the firing ranges of rifles and SMGs.

From what I have read, US Army definition of effective range is a range where average soldier can hit a torso size target with 50% accuracy. When you consider that every wound or kill in ww2 took hundreds or thousands of bullets to achieve, the "effective range" is not something that directly applies to battlefield conditions.

A rifle has an ingame range of 500 meters with 60% accuracy and M&S ability. In battlefield conditions, 500 meter range for opening fire is very optimistic. The idea that someone would be taking pot shots at 500 meters while advancing is just plain silly. Vast majority of the real WW2 infantry combat happened at ranges under 200-300 meters.

The ingame SMGs on the other hand have extremely conservative and strict range of 100 meters. The SMG's weren't built for accuracy because it didn't matter if you couldn't hit a torso at 200 meters with 50% probability when you could fire 30 rounds in a matter of seconds.

There is no mechanical reason why any SMG in the game couldn't shoot at 200 meters and many actually even have sight ranges for that (or even longer) range. The fire at 200 meters won't certainly be accurate but it's still deadly thanks to the volume (much like the machine guns outrange the rifles that use the same rounds and are theoretically even more accurate). I think it's pretty much certain that a soviet SMG squads would open fire at maximum range rather than the "effective" range.

The result of the current ranges is that the gap between the ranges of rifles and SMGs in battlefield conditions is heavily overemphasized and the infantry combat is too fast and deadly in general. The tiny range of SMGs also makes them very micro intensive to use with any efficiency.

[Obi-Rotta]

Originally posted by Marcomies:

I think there's pretty big inconsistency between the firing ranges of rifles and SMGs.

From what I have read, US Army definition of effective range is a range where average soldier can hit a torso size target with 50% accuracy. When you consider that every wound or kill in ww2 took hundreds or thousands of bullets to achieve, the "effective range" is not something that directly applies to battlefield conditions.

A rifle has an ingame range of 500 meters with 60% accuracy and M&S ability. In battlefield conditions, 500 meter range for opening fire is very optimistic. The idea that someone would be taking pot shots at 500 meters while advancing is just plain silly. Vast majority of the real WW2 infantry combat happened at ranges under 200-300 meters.

The ingame SMGs on the other hand have extremely conservative and strict range of 100 meters. The SMG's weren't built for accuracy because it didn't matter if you couldn't hit a torso at 200 meters with 50% probability when you could fire 30 rounds in a matter of seconds.

There is no mechanical reason why any SMG in the game couldn't shoot at 200 meters and many actually even have sight ranges for that (or even longer) range. The fire at 200 meters won't certainly be accurate but it's still deadly thanks to the volume (much like the machine guns outrange the rifles that use the same rounds and are theoretically even more accurate). I think it's pretty much certain that a soviet SMG squads would open fire at maximum range rather than the "effective" range.

The result of the current ranges is that the gap between the ranges of rifles and SMGs in battlefield conditions is heavily overemphasized and the infantry combat is too fast and deadly in general. The tiny range of SMGs also makes them very micro intensive to use with any efficiency.

YEEES very well said.

[fakemon64]

if the smg infantry got boosted range with penalty to accuracy they would just be wasting ammo while causing only a low amount of stress to the enemy infantry unless they are out of cover and moving. so even then the fire they'd be receiving would no doubt still overwhelm them regardless.