Bug report, 2" Mortars are direct fire only for some reason

[r.gibbon]

I presume that this is a bug, rather than a feature based on historical application. If they are supposed to be direct fire weapons with rather less range than a rifle, then they are stupidly expensive.

[Kifferkumpel]

Its the same for german 50mm mortar and some other low caliber mortars. its perfect as it is, because in sd1 those cheap low caliber mortars were spammed out like nothing else and ruined the gameplay for me. they are actually still quite strong against inf due to high rof and moral damage.

[Doomier Guy]

They should be indirect fire as well, yeah. They're fine apart from that.

[nigo_BR ᵀᴹ]

Its a feature.

[[EUG] MadMat]

Originally posted by r.gibbon:

I presume that this is a bug

It isn't.
Those small morars are to be regarded more like modern grenade-launchers.

[Doomier Guy]

Originally posted by EUG MadMat:

Originally posted by r.gibbon:

I presume that this is a bug

It isn't.
Those small morars are to be regarded more like modern grenade-launchers.

But they had angle of elevation for a reason.

[jswarpaint]

They pester my tanks to oblivion - I have also seen twice tow enemy vehicles facing each other sitting there crammed right next to each other - I don't consider this a bug but an opportunity - probably a smoke break.

[IRDCAM]

Not a 'bug' reality

The small 'light mortar' of 50mm, 60mm and 2in are usually direct fired (have to see target) like a grenade launcher, with just a high arc, rather than a true indirect fire firing at a unseen location piece. Softball v baseball essentially. Usually 100-800m range, 100 considered danger close and not used so short if possible and the high arc 'blowback' in a head wind means it drifted back your way, not a good thing.

There are modern firing tables for modern 60mm but back then had to essentially see to hit the target, set propellant charge, just elevation adjustments, no aiming stakes or math. Were usually in the Platoons 'weapons squad' or could be assigned down to a squad for mission support.

[[EUG] MadMat]

During and after W2, small caliber (45-50mm) were phased out in favor of rifle grenades.
The iconic Vietnam War era "thumper" (M97) was its direct successor, replaced nowadays by underslug grenade-launchers.

They are meant for direct fire, on sight. Of course, they could be fired indirectly, but if wasn't their most common used.
Ingame, we've decided do focus on that use to differenciate it from the 60-80mm mortars.

[Dumbledood]

Thanks for the response. I was perplexed when I saw how they worked at first too. But it's nice to know the reasoning behind it, and that it's a niche item.

[[EUG] MadMat]

The Italian 45mm mortar even had a shell-feed opening on top of the tupe and a firing lever for firing in quick succession, as a kind of ancestor of the Cold War Soviet AGS-17 automatic grenade-launcher.
https://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt07/pics/italian-45mm-mortar.jpg

[r.gibbon]

Thanks for explaining. This does make sense, but seems to make them prohibitively expensive to take.
I'd be keen to hear if anyone has found otherwise, perhaps I am just using them poorly, but they seem really weak for their cost since this is the case. They cannot garrison in buildings, so are easy to see and kill, have only 3 strength and have less range than a rifle squad. They appear to be worse than machine guns, except that they can produce smoke, but they also have very few smoke rounds.

[TasteDasRainbow]

Originally posted by r.gibbon:

Thanks for explaining. This does make sense, but seems to make them prohibitively expensive to take.
I'd be keen to hear if anyone has found otherwise, perhaps I am just using them poorly, but they seem really weak for their cost since this is the case. They cannot garrison in buildings, so are easy to see and kill, have only 3 strength and have less range than a rifle squad. They appear to be worse than machine guns, except that they can produce smoke, but they also have very few smoke rounds.

I think the cost is fairly decent, not sure about the 2", but I know the soviet 50mm was only 25 points last time I played with one.

I think they could still use more than 2 guys on a tube, maybe 3-4 to give them some kind of survivability, especially since they're direct fire. Also allowing them to garrison buildings might be a decent change so they can have some kind of stealth as well.

[IRDCAM]

Originally posted by EUG MadMat:

During and after W2, small caliber (45-50mm) were phased out in favor of rifle grenades.
The iconic Vietnam War era "thumper" (M97) was its direct successor, replaced nowadays by underslug grenade-launchers.

They are meant for direct fire, on sight. Of course, they could be fired indirectly, but if wasn't their most common used.
Ingame, we've decided do focus on that use to differenciate it from the 60-80mm mortars.

Small correction it was the M79 Thumper or Blooper.

[[EUG] MadMat]

Damn, typo ... :(

Thanks for correctiong me. :)

[IRDCAM]

No problem...need some help on research? 60+ retired guy, bored, military history and research is my 'hobby'. Play various forms of war games, to the old SPI and Avalon Hill board and chit, to WW2 miniatures Flames of War and Bolt Action, and finally computer, go back to the old SSI Commadore 64 era. Love the tactical small unit games, retired from US Army, MOS 11B Infantry, re-enactor living history, as American Civil War US Cavalry as well as Confederate Raider Cavalry, WW2 HEER Infantry, Vietnam US Army Infantry.

Just looking for something to do as I sit out here in rural Nebraska, USA, bored to tears at times.