Why does Erzats but not Strafniki or Partisani have the "heartbroken" symbol?

[Marcus Butthurticus]

Is military police even useful when there is, from what I seen, only one unit that got this trait? And whats with not having it on more units if there is a unit dedicated to them not breaking? Like NKVD?

[acur1231]

I mean, if you look at some of the Soviet squads in the armoury there are NKVD officers outside of NKVD units. There is one attached to the Soviet command squad (a Commisar?), one commanding each unit of Strafniki and two in the Strafniki command unit. The 4 man NKVD unit seems to represent patrols of them, which would not usually see much fighting (Though some did, especially after Bagration, when large groups of Germans were encircled and tried to slip back to their lines. I remember reading about an NKVD Regiment which ended up in a 10 hour firefight with a group of German stragglers, which eventually turned out to be about 600 men and 3 Stugs).

[Marcus Butthurticus]

acur1231 původně napsal:

I mean, if you look at some of the Soviet squads in the armoury there are NKVD officers outside of NKVD units. There is one attached to the Soviet command squad (a Commisar?), one commanding each unit of Strafniki and two in the Strafniki command unit. The 4 man NKVD unit seems to represent patrols of them, which would not usually see much fighting (Though some did, especially after Bagration, when large groups of Germans were encircled and tried to slip back to their lines. I remember reading about an NKVD Regiment which ended up in a 10 hour firefight with a group of German stragglers, which eventually turned out to be about 600 men and 3 Stugs).

That sounds like one hell of a fire fight. How many NKVD was fighting them?

[[EUG] MadMat]

Soviet pénal troops were harsh, but fair, more so than German ones.
Soldiers were condemn to serve for (from memory) three months max depending on their crimes. Once their time had been served (and they survived it), they were considered redeemed and returned to a regular outfit.
In most case, shtrafniki did really try to redeem themselves, especially officer penal battalion, hence why they aren’t disheartened.

[Jam292]

I believe the soviets also used penal squadrons at several points to attack German tank columns and other fortified positions that were certain to have strong AAA units. Observer planes would watch those poor pilots to ensure they actually attacked rather than just dump their ammo.

[DNW 🇮🇹]

the partisans do not give up and certainly have a cover bonus due to being familiar with the places

[Marcus Butthurticus]

EUG MadMat původně napsal:

Soviet pénal troops were harsh, but fair, more so than German ones.
Soldiers were condemn to serve for (from memory) three months max depending on their crimes. Once their time had been served (and they survived it), they were considered redeemed and returned to a regular outfit.
In most case, shtrafniki did really try to redeem themselves, especially officer penal battalion, hence why they aren’t disheartened.

So why bother adding NKVD if there main thing is buff disheartened units? You sound very pro-Soviet here to. As if All Strafniki was good hearted patriots who did nothing wrong? Why are they then in a penal troop? They are in a penal squad for a reason.

[[EUG] MadMat]

The most common outrages bringing men to the pénal battalions were linked to drunkenness: drunk on duty, crashed a truck in a ditch, hitting or even shooting a comrade while drunk, ... but there were also theft, refusal to obey, ...

[Marcus Butthurticus]

EUG MadMat původně napsal:

The most common outrages bringing men to the pénal battalions were linked to drunkenness: drunk on duty, crashed a truck in a ditch, hitting or even shooting a comrade while drunk, ... but there were also theft, refusal to obey, ...

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hell, that sounds really ♥♥♥♥♥♥. I imagine killing someone was execution? Either way, I guess it could be worse. I always heard it was people who commited crimes, but I always expected that to be "criminals", aka people who done murders, kidnappings, rape, thieves and so on. Not soldiers who been penalized.

[♔ Affable 7th Wave Teaboo ♔]

Large part of Soviet partisan forces were Red army regulars who were encircled, and instead of surrendering, just disappeared into the woods. One may even say many of them were the most experienced soldiers of the Red Army, since they were fighting since the start of the war almost continuously.

[[EUG] MadMat]

Pénal troops were made up from soldiers having committed crimes while already under the uniform, not common “civilian” inmates drafted in the military.
I have read here or there that by the end of 44 and 1945, facing an accuse lack of manpower, the Red Army presses gulag inmates into the army, but I don’t know to what extent it was true, and even so, I don’t think they were pressed into pénal troops, just regular line ones.

[Marcus Butthurticus]

Well, that is interesting either way. I imagine both sides in the end did have to push people into the army by any means necessary cause both sides lost millions.

[[EUG] MadMat]

From the moment the Red Army started liberating former Soviet territories from Grrman occupation, they pressed in the army any “man” from age 15 or 16 from those territories.
And since they were automatically suspect since they hadn’t fled before the Germans nor joined the partisans, they were initially treated very harshly, as “single-use soldiers”. It changed later when the Soviets couldn’t really afford to waste any infantryman.

But the Nazis certainly proved at least as much, if not more, inhuman with their own pénal troops and later Volksturm.

[Marcus Butthurticus]

EUG MadMat původně napsal:

From the moment the Red Army started liberating former Soviet territories from Grrman occupation, they pressed in the army any “man” from age 15 or 16 from those territories.
And since they were automatically suspect since they hadn’t fled before the Germans nor joined the partisans, they were initially treated very harshly, as “single-use soldiers”. It changed later when the Soviets couldn’t really afford to waste any infantryman.

But the Nazis certainly proved at least as much, if not more, inhuman with their own pénal troops and later Volksturm.

Of course, and Japans Defensive Doctrine would prove to be the bloodiest of all had USA Marines tried to land on the shores of mainland Japan!

And...with that said, I reeeeally hope you do a pacific theater Steel Division ;)

[acur1231]

By the way, can you do a quick rundown of all the unique German infantry squads in game? I found the many different infantry units pressed to the front very interesting in SD44, and many are back in SD2. For instance, who are the Schuma?

[Marcus Butthurticus]

acur1231 původně napsal:

By the way, can you do a quick rundown of all the unique German infantry squads in game? I found the many different infantry units pressed to the front very interesting in SD44, and many are back in SD2. For instance, who are the Schuma?

I think Schuma was a Russian "Police" force in the German army. Ironically, the German army for all its racial ubermensch thinking and hatred of The Slavs, was forced at the end ur did used one of the most diverse armies. Basically anything under the sun was used by the German army if they occupied a territory. From Frenchmen to Russian traitors and the random Korean and Cossack along with Romanians, Hungarians and even Africans.