Steel Division 2

Steel Division 2

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johny247trace 2019 年 10 月 5 日 下午 2:25
Army general is horibly designed
I started Army general and first impressions were pretty positive, there was interesting phase system and option to cooperate with AI.

But then i discovered that this mode is totally broken I played campaign on hardest difficulty and i win Minor Victory by moving all divisions in a straight line to objective and autoresulting every batle enemy started

Also, there is a bunch of frustrating aspects of battles like random map size (because AI have more units it always has advantage on bigger maps)

Even W:AB and W:RD hade better campaigns than this such step back from previous games and massive waste of potential especially because AI and basic gameplay are better than those games. In my opinion the best thing to do would be to cancel any future army general and focus purely on skirmish, multiplayer and mod support.

But i guess lot of people enjoy army general so that will not happen, I just want to ask how do you deal with this lack of balance, did i do something wrong or am I so good that I can win this campaign by ignoring combat
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正在显示第 1 - 12 条,共 12 条留言
Hidden Gunman 2019 年 10 月 5 日 下午 3:07 
So you autoresolve a tactical game, then complain it's 'broken'?

WTF?
johny247trace 2019 年 10 月 5 日 下午 3:14 
引用自 Hidden Gunman
So you autoresolve a tactical game, then complain it's 'broken'?

WTF?
Well yeas what is point of tactical battle when you can win by autoresolve???
I played most stupid way and was expecting to lose but i win thats why it is broken.
Dont you thing that game shoud punish me for such aproach insted of handing me victory on hardest difficulty?
Hidden Gunman 2019 年 10 月 5 日 下午 8:15 
Which campaign?

But on your question, the devs have said you can play it how you want...
最后由 Hidden Gunman 编辑于; 2019 年 10 月 5 日 下午 8:17
DasaKamov 2019 年 10 月 5 日 下午 8:26 
引用自 johny247trace
what is point of tactical battle when you can win by autoresolve?
For, you know, enjoyment of playing the game in a tactical game-mode and for the eye-candy. What would be the point of auto-resolve if you lost every single time?

Also, "I played the game in a way that almost *nobody* would actually play (skipping every tactical battle)" is not a solid basis for dismissing an entire game mode - especially when your post is lacking in details, and could be a one-time fluke.

最后由 DasaKamov 编辑于; 2019 年 10 月 5 日 下午 8:28
johny247trace 2019 年 10 月 6 日 上午 12:09 
引用自 Hidden Gunman
Which campaign?

But on your question, the devs have said you can play it how you want...

it was third campain where you trying to save 4. army

I cannot play it way I want, because I wanted to be chalenge by this campain I wanted to my strategic and tactical skils to be put to test like in W:AB campain.

But how can I do that when most effective way to play is most boring one (you just move all units directly into objective). Playing way you want is great but there is big difference betwean finding you playstyle (lets say like in Deus ex) and just messing around like in Dishonored. Because dishonored can be experienced in lot of ways but it cannot be played because you dont get punishted for anything you do, your aproach literary dosent matter because ewerithing is ilusion.
最后由 johny247trace 编辑于; 2019 年 10 月 6 日 上午 12:25
johny247trace 2019 年 10 月 6 日 上午 12:21 
引用自 DasaKamov
引用自 johny247trace
what is point of tactical battle when you can win by autoresolve?
For, you know, enjoyment of playing the game in a tactical game-mode and for the eye-candy. What would be the point of auto-resolve if you lost every single time?

Also, "I played the game in a way that almost *nobody* would actually play (skipping every tactical battle)" is not a solid basis for dismissing an entire game mode - especially when your post is lacking in details, and could be a one-time fluke.

OK first this mode is good if you after eye-candy or historical experience surre I was just looking for the game.

You need to understand that if you looking for a chalenge in game there is this fenomenom called
"Optimize fun out of game" when if fun of the game is to make decisions to win somethimes best decision makes game more boring in long terme. In my case best way to save 4 army was to just fast move it through enemy teritory in straight line because rusians were unable to catch up.

And yeas I probably could play different way but then I wouldnt play the game I would play pretend (which somethims I do) But if you play pretend ewery videogam can be 10/10 masterpiece I dont thing thats serios argument agganst my critisism.
Raoule 2019 年 10 月 6 日 上午 2:59 
Sadly it works this way since release and no feedback was implemented so far to solve this problem.
It is your job as the defender just to hold out the few turns, neverheless doing autoresolve or not. There is no game option to play this operation on an larger timescale to everybodys surprise. Lets wait the next patch and/or the workshop to adjust the turns/times and make it mor popular and fun.
Atm, its just too easy to hold out the few turns... Should be possible to implement a final stance or a continue button to deal out the campaign in some real fights for the devs ofc, but they prefer their vision from historical accuracy over our demands and fun (and the real scenario back then xD)
最后由 Raoule 编辑于; 2019 年 10 月 6 日 上午 3:04
BHunterSEAL 2019 年 10 月 6 日 下午 8:23 
Having a good auto-resolve feature (and it is quite good) was a stated goal of development. One of the diaries even calls-out that you could play through the campaigns entirely on the strategic map by positioning your forces well and auto-resolving.

I completely agree with your point on map sizes, though--some of the massive maps that get picked for Army General are completely un-manageable. Even setting battalions to AI-control doesn't help much, since they only take one 'lane.'

It's also really tedious setting up defenses over and over again on the same map. I wish they were persistent, or that there was an auto-setup button that covers the map and allows the user to tweak before beginning the battle.

I think Army General could be great, but there are a few nagging issues--like the way air support is handled, and the ease of winning defensive campaigns by constantly bombarding the best enemy battalions--that I'm hoping Eugen will address. There's so much potential here, if the system is opened-up to modders the possibilities are endless.
Siyah Qalam 2019 年 10 月 7 日 上午 8:22 
You can autoresolve all the battles in Total War games. Does that mean they're all "broken"?

I think what really throws the balance off in army general is defenses. If you dig in any infantry battalion, no matter how depleted/garbage it is, it can hold off waves of attackers. The AI isn't terrible at suppressing defenses, but they also have a bad habit of fast-moving transports into the sights of your dug-in AT guns--of which you can half several. You can decimate entire divisions just by putting your AT bunkers in the right locations and walking off, even on the harder difficulties.

I'd like to see a head to head army general, but even so defenses are just too powerful--and they can replenish. Unlike in history, when bunkers and frontline defenses could be pounded to hell or disorganized before the attack, a battalion can replenish all its bunkers and trenches in just 12 in-game hours.
Hidden Gunman 2019 年 10 月 7 日 下午 2:39 
引用自 Padre
You can autoresolve all the battles in Total War games. Does that mean they're all "broken"?

I think what really throws the balance off in army general is defenses. If you dig in any infantry battalion, no matter how depleted/garbage it is, it can hold off waves of attackers. The AI isn't terrible at suppressing defenses, but they also have a bad habit of fast-moving transports into the sights of your dug-in AT guns--of which you can half several. You can decimate entire divisions just by putting your AT bunkers in the right locations and walking off, even on the harder difficulties.

I'd like to see a head to head army general, but even so defenses are just too powerful--and they can replenish. Unlike in history, when bunkers and frontline defenses could be pounded to hell or disorganized before the attack, a battalion can replenish all its bunkers and trenches in just 12 in-game hours.
I can understand why they have done it this way, but fixed defenses and obstacles take time to build, and they soak up troops...those mg's and guns have to come from somewhere.

Armies know how long it takes to get to a certain level of defensive works, dependant upon soil type, season and weather, AND availability of resources. I personally think the Army General digging in times are seriously fast, particularly for 'bunkers', which in-game are basically fighting pits with overhead protection (of a sort), and wiring. Then there is the issue of camouflage...fixed works without decent camouflage are like neon signs or stick out like dog's b**ls, and that takes time.
最后由 Hidden Gunman 编辑于; 2019 年 10 月 7 日 下午 2:46
TheReal_WildBoar 2019 年 10 月 8 日 上午 10:36 
Another issue I had is my tiger group was destroyed while still having 13/20 tigers left. I fought a battle against a T34 blob and lost 4 tigers to about 20-30 T34 kills, but then my tiger group was lost. Just a bit ticked off because sure I get that logistically most units would retreat after significant battles, but Germans, especially when constructing kampfgroupes would keep them in battle despite losses, especially tigers, as removing such a power unit during a large engagement can do a lot of damage to the defence, as it has done to mine. my grenadier unit supporting the tigers jumped into the spot of the T34 army and are now cut off from my main force while facing down 4 enemy units. Thing is, I understand that their point rating was too low, but I still had about 65% of the force left which would be one of my most effective single units.
Hidden Gunman 2019 年 10 月 8 日 下午 2:52 
Seems there is a bit of an issue with disengaging on the operational maps...although it's probably intended. You lose pretty much everything.

What that means is that you can't put in probes or spoiler attacks to tie down enemy units and reserves, because your units are crippled or destroyed in total afterwards. I would think that if you got a 'total victory' on the tactical battle map, then you would destroy as per the mechanic, and vice versa; anything less than that (or major victory) then I think only actual casualties from the battle should be taken, rather than adjusted as we have now.
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发帖日期: 2019 年 10 月 5 日 下午 2:25
回复数: 12