Alaloth - Champions of The Four Kingdoms

Alaloth - Champions of The Four Kingdoms

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El Vaquero Jan 2, 2024 @ 6:40pm
Difficulty Balance
I collected the 4 pieces and probably would have enjoyed wandering around and exploring the map more but the other champions kept hopelessly attacking me. I got bored of this so went to face Alaloth and should have taken the 'you cannot come back' bit more seriously. I was under equipped and needed waaaay more potions for the number of attempts I had. Spent probably 2 hours just replaying him until I beat him, was seriously considering abandoning the character and starting over with lessons learned.

TL;DR Alaloth was far more difficult to beat than anything I was facing on the map and the other champions were annoying.
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Showing 1-13 of 13 comments
Eldacar  [developer] Jan 3, 2024 @ 1:43am 
Competitive Mode has been built to play against other champions, even considering they have different bhv so not everyone is going to chase you. Single Player Campaign has been built to play taking your time :)
Dehexed Jan 3, 2024 @ 3:00am 
Originally posted by Eldacar:
even considering they have different bhv so not everyone is going to chase you

Unless something has changed recently, this is not my experience. As soon as you have all four artifacts in your possession, they'll all just chase you relentlessly around the world map.

Kill them, and they'll respawn at one of the shrines. You'll have peace from them for a while, but they'll get right back to chasing you again as soon as they're able. After you've defeated them the first time and taken their weapons and gold, there's little to gain from fighting them again.

After they've been beaten once, they should go away for an extended period of time; perhaps you could allow them to claim quests as well--there's certainly enough of them--and require them to gather new equipment before trying for you again.

Add some variations on combat dialogue on subsequent attempts to denote increasing desperation. At some point they should just give up completely too, in my opinion.

I'm not clear on what kinds of different behaviour they are supposed to have. If all FAs have been claimed--and you have all of the artifacts--all that remains for them is to chase you. Isn't it just these two things they do? Claim FAs and chase down other champions that possess artifacts? Perhaps fight a few monsters on the world map when attacked?
Eldacar  [developer] Jan 3, 2024 @ 6:50am 
Originally posted by Dehexed:
Originally posted by Eldacar:
even considering they have different bhv so not everyone is going to chase you

Unless something has changed recently, this is not my experience. As soon as you have all four artifacts in your possession, they'll all just chase you relentlessly around the world map.

Kill them, and they'll respawn at one of the shrines. You'll have peace from them for a while, but they'll get right back to chasing you again as soon as they're able. After you've defeated them the first time and taken their weapons and gold, there's little to gain from fighting them again.

After they've been beaten once, they should go away for an extended period of time; perhaps you could allow them to claim quests as well--there's certainly enough of them--and require them to gather new equipment before trying for you again.

Add some variations on combat dialogue on subsequent attempts to denote increasing desperation. At some point they should just give up completely too, in my opinion.

I'm not clear on what kinds of different behaviour they are supposed to have. If all FAs have been claimed--and you have all of the artifacts--all that remains for them is to chase you. Isn't it just these two things they do? Claim FAs and chase down other champions that possess artifacts? Perhaps fight a few monsters on the world map when attacked?

Many things have changed through months, for sure when you get 4 artifacts the other champions will be after you. This is how the mode work. You can finish the game and beat Alaloth so it's pretty normal to be chased. Depending on the bhv, some champions can build their run after you since the first steps or wait you to collect artifacts as already said. They claim quest in Competitive Mode, since ever. Different bhv are passive/neutral/aggressive. You can even roll 3 aggressive champs being after you since the very beginning.
Dehexed Jan 3, 2024 @ 11:19am 
Originally posted by Eldacar:
Many things have changed through months, for sure when you get 4 artifacts the other champions will be after you. This is how the mode work. You can finish the game and beat Alaloth so it's pretty normal to be chased.

It's still annoying--see my suggestions to make it a little more interesting. After you've defeated them once and taken their weapons and their gold, the only reward for fighting them again is a small amount of gold.
They also say the exact same thing each time they attack you, unless that has been changed.

Maybe you should add some more events as time passes to make it impossible to play forever. I know there's a short cut-scene that plays when a certain amount of time has passed, but I've not seen any information about what that cut-scene means, or what effects the passing of time actually has on the game. I had a long game earlier, and I think that you add more monsters to the world map and/or increase the number of monsters in each group, and perhaps make them more powerful.

Originally posted by Eldacar:
Depending on the bhv, some champions can build their run after you since the first steps or wait you to collect artifacts as already said. They claim quest in Competitive Mode, since ever. Different bhv are passive/neutral/aggressive. You can even roll 3 aggressive champs being after you since the very beginning.

What does that mean? Do "passive" and "neutral" champions leave you alone? They're still after Alaloth too, so I'm guessing that they'll all relentlessly chase you around the map anyway when you've got all four artifacts. I'm going to guess too, that as long as you don't have all of the artifacts, the "aggressive" champions will only come after you when you're near, not home in on you from across the map.

Do champions really solve quests? Is there a way to find out which quests have been solved by other champions, like the way in which you can identify which FAs have been claimed by the popup text and the changed FA icon?
El Vaquero Jan 8, 2024 @ 12:41pm 
Originally posted by Eldacar:
Competitive Mode has been built to play against other champions, even considering they have different bhv so not everyone is going to chase you. Single Player Campaign has been built to play taking your time :)

I feel the 4 pieces were collected too quickly. I was not ready to face Alaloth but being perpetually chased by the Champions was getting pretty boring so went to face him too early. It was fun being unexpectedly challenged by one soon after I found the first piece and having it taken, but the pieces are collected too quickly. I think the pieces should be rewarded after some tougher quests.

Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse here but I thought the point of the Champions mode was "harder" because of the competition and time constraints. I did not think Champions mode was harder because of the need to face Alaloth sooner just to stop being harassed by Champions who have no hope of beating you.

I agree with Dehexed that there should be some other mechanic that enables the AI to leave you alone and power up before challenging you again. I think I just got too far ahead of them and it really was a nuisance.

Are there unique quests to each race/starting choice? I'm having a hard time justifying playing it again since I feel like a I got a pretty good sense of the world and enemies in my first playthrough. Maybe have some FAs, areas, and quests locked/only available to your character choices. Does you alignment make that much of a difference? Didn't notice it having an impact on my gameplay.

Bought the game 12/22/23
Drizzt89 Jan 8, 2024 @ 2:22pm 
If you want to enjoy quests at your pace, just play the campaign. Competitive Mode is to add spice. If you play with different races and alignments lot of things change
Dehexed Jan 8, 2024 @ 11:58pm 
Originally posted by Drizzt89:
If you play with different races and alignments lot of things change

In my experience, the only things that change with different races, houses and religions, is initial bonuses and penalties, the choice of stronghold, where you start the game, and the intro. Here and there you might see short snippets of dialogue that refer to your race and house, but does it really have any effect on gameplay?

The only effect alignment has (as far as I can tell) is which 4 of the 12 companions are available to you, and thus which companion quest lines are available. Outside of the companion quests, it does not seem to have any effect on the rest of the world--I have not seen anything change in that respect when playing as either good, neutral, or evil.

One might expect that there would at least be differing dialogue. Whether you play as good, neutral or evil, quest dialogues will always be the same. For example, wouldn't an evil character be more disdainful when interacting with commoners?
Drizzt89 Jan 9, 2024 @ 12:46am 
Nope,
each race opens a set of different quests. Same for alignment. If you do (or don't) certain quests you open (or not) new quest lines you can simply not see in a single run. I still see new content popping after 100 hours (playing on GOG but have around 20 hours here too). And the world reacts to your race changing dialogues and barks and so.
Last edited by Drizzt89; Jan 9, 2024 @ 2:26am
Dehexed Jan 9, 2024 @ 1:26am 
Originally posted by Drizzt89:
each race opens a set of different quests. Same for alignment. If you do (or don't) certain questa you open (or not) new quest lines you can simply not see in a single run

I've seen this mentioned many times, but have not experienced this myself. Can you point to some quests that are race- or alignment locked, apart from the companion quests? And some examples of quests that lock you out of other quests, so that I can confirm this for myself?
Last edited by Dehexed; Jan 9, 2024 @ 1:26am
Drizzt89 Jan 9, 2024 @ 2:28am 
You can use Griffins if you are an elf only, Arena is for orcs only for what I know and there are a bunch more. Quests that locks you out other quests should be listed somewhere on the wiki or Reddit I guess, simply instead of branching dialogues you have branched quests lines, connected to calendar too
Dehexed Jan 9, 2024 @ 3:40am 
Originally posted by Drizzt89:
You can use Griffins if you are an elf only, Arena is for orcs only for what I know and there are a bunch more.
Thanks, forgot about the Griffins. That's pretty minor though; an additional way for fast travel only available for Elves, and only within the Republic of Larastir.
I haven't tried the Arena, so I don't know the how much content that entails. Are there a bunch more?

Originally posted by Drizzt89:
Quests that locks you out other quests should be listed somewhere on the wiki or Reddit I guess
Can't really find anything about this on the wikis. One of them just has a list of side quests; no mention of any of them being race- or aligment locked, or locking you out of access to other quests.

One of the wikis has a heading with 'Exclusive Quests for <race> in Alaloth' for each race, but only a 'Quest info to be added' placeholder.
That might indicate that such quests do in fact exist, but since no quests are listed, there is no way to confirm this. You have mentioned the Griffins and the Arena, though, so there are at least a few.

Originally posted by Drizzt89:
simply instead of branching dialogues you have branched quests lines, connected to calendar too
I've seen one of these, concerning some sort of festival in the Desolation of Baga that was only supposed to be available at a certain time of year. Returned to that city during that month several times, but a quest marker inside the city never appeared. Are you saying that there are many of these?

There are side quests that trigger additional side quests, but are any of them branching? Won't you be able to start them regardless, as long as you find the first one? Are you really ever locked out of any side-quests?

The developers have also claimed that competing champions resolve side-quests on their own, but I have yet to see any evidence of this. The only thing I can think of here, is if the competing champions claim enough FAs in an area so that you're not able to claim enough of them yourself to get the "kill the area boss" quest from the ruler. In that way you can get locked out of those quests, I guess, but that's only 4 in total, and would not happen in a single player campaign.
Eldacar  [developer] Jan 9, 2024 @ 5:27am 
Calendar unlocks a ton of quests. You can take or miss, many can be found more than one time, others are one shot. Same for racial and alignment quests [but we are on this, there are not so much at the mo]. Other champions complete quests as well, as you said, linked to FA claim mostly [so not 4, almost each FA have quests you can complete only with layer one and boss in, number should be around 30/35 or such]
Dehexed Jan 9, 2024 @ 5:54am 
Originally posted by Eldacar:
Other champions complete quests as well, as you said, linked to FA claim mostly [so not 4, almost each FA have quests you can complete only with layer one and boss in, number should be around 30/35 or such]

Good point; didn't think of that. However, that only applies to Competitive Mode.
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Date Posted: Jan 2, 2024 @ 6:40pm
Posts: 13