Experimental Branch Feedback

[Regicide]

Hello Dev :)

I tried out the new version yesterday for some hours and thought to share some feedback if you are interested in:

First off, it was a funny mix of being shocked and amazed! And I have to say I had a long break from this game, just returned to it a week ago, so I sadly missed a lot of player feedback & discussions that might explain why the game changed a lot in the new version.

On my first attempt I tried the default settings, so Difficulty 2/5 and no alternative research.

1. The Tutorial

The Tutorial improved a lot! It definitley takes new players now by the hand and showing them every aspect of the game, well done!

2. The Hints

They improved also! And I like the way how it guides you by 1-click travel you to the system and let you build the needed components with just another click. This saves a lot of time searching the map.

3. The Map

It's nice that it's bigger and you have access to more systems, but for me it's too full and confusing. Sometimes I really had trouble recognizing which resource belongs to which planet.

4. The new Techtree

The Technologies are now better linked and it's easier to find the tech you're looking for. BUT you need waaaay to much clicking to reach your goal. I think the Icons/Buttons of the Techs are too big, resizing them or adding an option to zoom out so you can look at more techs at once would be really better!

Also I really recommend to change the color. The whole game is pretty much dark themed. A completly white menue now feels like a deal breaker and doesn't fit to the rest.

5. The new research behaviour (terraforming planets & Population)

So far I liked it! The starting Techs are cheaper and you have more Memory available, so mistakes are more forgiving and you don't get stuck so fast due to picking the wrong techs.

The Terraforming is sweet and was a very nice surprise! When the population of my first planet ordered coolant to then freeze the Lava and make the surface habitable was awesome to look at! (Though I found out it was just a lucky mix that it was a Lava Planet and ordered coolant, haha! :-)

For the Population grow: I think it shouldn't be the same speed for all Planets. It felt a little bit wierd that there is no difference in time no matter if you raise the Population by 100 Millions or a Billion. But I think that's just a matter of taste and not really important.

6. The new Colony System / The way you build Space Stations

Well and that sadly was the part where I got shocked. You often said the goal of this update is to make things easier, especially for Beginners. And well, you did! Absolutley.

It took me only 2 hours to Populate/Terraform all neutral systems.

And that's the problem for me: It's way too easy now. The game changed from "Engineering and Designing a perfect working Station for every ressource you need" to "Just click the buttons and do what the Hints telling you."

The core part for me was tinkering on my personal layouts for the Space Stations to make them as small and still as efficient as possible to produce all goods you need.

The fact that you now:

1. Are limited in production chains you can build per system
2. Have to use fix layouts of the chains
3. Can't upgrade the production chains (Storage T1 -> T2 for example)
4. Have to use Transfer Arrays, so Haulers or Tankers are no longer needed at all, only Builder ships and Energy Transfer Ships

killed the fun, at least for me.

It's well done, like said, very easy to handle now! But for me the game has lost a core part of the game now. Yes, you can still build some Research or Battery Modules, but nothing related to Production.

7. General Pro's & Con's

Pro:

- You are no longer capped and have to do research for claiming sectors
- Same for Number of Cannons on Ships
- Transfer Arrays are also no longer capped and need research, you just have to pay more energy if you're farther away

This is stuff I really appreciated and would love to have in the current version of the game, too :-)

- Less empty systems, you have much more planets with ressources in general on the map

Con:

- I'm not sure about this atm, but did the Soundtrack changed? I like the new Soundtracks but it felt like some old ones are missing now?

- No color markings on hostile sectors you haven't visited yet. This made me sometimes think "Oh there is still a neutral system I forgot to claim" only to realize, no it's just hostile.
I would suggest to bring back the color dots from the current version!

- On my first run I had only one coal Planet in the whole neutral system. That was a little bottleneck in the midgame.

- The Hint system starts to sending you to hostile systems without warning if you lack of ressources in the neutral system. As mentioned above, I was missing coal, so when I had to build another coal production chain, the Hint system told me to claim system XY, I clicked the button without checking the system on the map first and landed in a hostile system where my Flagship instant got shot down.

8. The Alternative Research

I started another run with the Alternative Research option!

- I like the fact that you are not longer limited by Memory and therefor can't get stuck at all!
- For my taste it's too random what research you can pick next, especially since you can sometimes pick allready higher Tiers before researching the lower tiers and that leaded to the problem that sometimes the Hint systems tells you to build a certain production line, but it's not working because parts are missing.

- There should be an option to disable the popup for picking the next research. Especially on the start where research is fast, it popped up so often that it was annoying and also interupted me sometimes when building ships or doing other stuff.

- The Bonus on the research time you get after reaching a billion population, feels to small and not rewarding.

But it's a very nice alternative research option, with some more love and balancing it could be very cool! :-)

9. Summary

You did a great job on the update! Yes, I don't really like it and prefering the actual version, but for an experimental branch it was very stable and I only rarely faced any bugs! So pretty solid developed! I hope this game will get more attention on the future, because you're working hard and the way you're communicating with the players and listening to their feedback is legendary! :-)

10. Personal Question/Request

It might pretty much be the case that I'm in the minority with the fact that I want to keep the old Station building/Colony raising system and Update 2 might be the future for this game.

So I want to ask if you can put the actual version as a permament Beta-Branch always accesible when you roll out Update 2 official! Because I love the game the way it actually is (though I would love to have the 3 changes I mentioned in the "Pro's" added (Sectors, Cannons and Transfer Arrays) that would be dope!) and hope to be able to still play it in the future :-)

[graphitepaddle]

Thanks Regicide for the early review. Based on your description, sounds like I'll probably had a net disappointment. (I liked the complex supply chain setups.)

[stump]

A very good review. I agree that the developer did a superb job in lots of new features, etc. Very well done. I am with you on preferring the old build system though. Unfortunately I quit paying the old build until the sound of the machines was put in as an option which this update did. I didn't like it quiet when zoomed out. Now I hear the machines just dandy but am not crazy about the new stations building system. Point, click, repeat. I too liked designing and building my own systems.

On the research screen it is very clean and easy to use and I think I could get used to it. After playing games since Pong back in the 70s it is just very new to me. I like to see a tree style display so I can see what I have done and Plan out what I want to do all in one screen (scrollable if need be)

I think the immediate answer to my concerns is just uplink the planetary resources to storage only. Then build ships to collect the stored resource and process, refine, move it, whatever, in the way I wish to.

The end goal of grow to population X or complete Y number of planets was never why I was interested in this game. I liked fiddling with designs.

Ha! You can't please everyone can you? Good work!

[TaosX]

Thank you very much for your feedback and your time!

Of course, the Update 1 will be available forever on a separate branch.

The Update 2 is in the testing phase. The feedback is very important. I won't release it in the current shape if the general opinion will be that the previous build was better. I need to see the trend, to hear what people think. We'll decide together with the community what to do next.

My main concern is balancing the interests of casual and hardcore players. The game ran relatively well on the most basic first version with auto-stations. After the launch of the second update, which was more complex, the reviews of the game and other indicators deteriorated. I'm looking for a way to make the game easier and more accessible to a wider audience so that I can keep developing. I really appreciate any ideas and suggestions that will help me achieve the goal.

[Regicide]

Originally posted by stump:

Ha! You can't please everyone can you? Good work!

I'm just a little bit sad for the dev. I'm sure the update was a lot of work and the last thing you then want to hear is "I don't like it".

So I hope this guy doesn't take it wrong, I really appreciate his effort!

[Regicide]

Originally posted by TaosX:

I'm looking for a way to make the game easier and more accessible to a wider audience so that I can keep developing. I really appreciate any ideas and suggestions that will help me achieve the goal.

Any chance to offer both ways?

So for example after claiming a Sector, you can decide if you want it to be an Auto Colony or you want to build the Station yourself?

That way it should work for both players: Those who want it very easy and those who want to tinker around.

[graphitepaddle]

Originally posted by Regicide:

Originally posted by TaosX:

I'm looking for a way to make the game easier and more accessible to a wider audience so that I can keep developing. I really appreciate any ideas and suggestions that will help me achieve the goal.

Any chance to offer both ways?

So for example after claiming a Sector, you can decide if you want it to be an Auto Colony or you want to build the Station yourself?

That way it should work for both players: Those who want it very easy and those who want to tinker around.

+1

[TaosX]

Unfortunatly, if it's possible to select between auto-station and freeform station, the whole stats/hints/auto-line-construction system stops working because it's based on the data how much resources consumed from a planet and supplied to it. You probably noticed that the stats are correct right after you order to build any production line, even before the machines are actually built and the flow started. How it's achieved: code scans the station hardware configuration. It's quite complex and performance critical procedure that gets executes on every station very frequently. If I allow players to modify a planetary station freely, it will be impossible to gather the data because you'll be able to create any complexity, looping, throwing resources to space, resource overusage, resource underusage, and so on. But you can build freeform station in empty sectors and you can build an unlimited number of production ships anywhere. I'm thinking about removal of the restriction "one sector = one station." That will give the oportunity to build any station you want right nearby.

But I'm more concerned about the overall impression. After the test/improvement phase, the following possible:
1. The Update 2 will replace Update 1 on the main branch.
2. The Update 1 will remain on the main branch and the Update 2 will be a free spin-off on experimental.
3. I'll work on some mix of both Updates. Not sure how much time it will take.

[Regicide]

I see, wow, sounds like that was a hell of coding :O

Originally posted by TaosX:

I'm thinking about removal of the restriction "one sector = one station." That will give the oportunity to build any station you want right nearby.

This sounds like an interesting way, the question is just how to invole them into the existing system so that stations in empty sectors are quite useful and not just decorative.

Also then there should be an way to increase resource output from colonys, so you can still feed those extra stations. (Also maybe make ressource Transfer only Arrays not counting towards the Limit of the Sector?)


The other Idea would be still to merge both versions, but you have to make the decision on map generation and not ingame, that way it should work?

So when you start a new game, in the same window where you configure the difficulty settings, there's a switch for "Auto Colony Mode" or "Manual Building Mode" with a hint that "Auto Colony Mode" is easy and for Beginners and the other one only recommended for experienced players? That way it shouldn't interfer with the Hint system because depending on what you pick, the Hint System is activated/deactivated.

And it would be a win win situation for both player types:

For those who want it more easy the new system
For those who like the current version, they can keep it but get the nice Quality of Life updates from the new version (like the Sound option, or the removed limit on Sectors, Cannons etc.)

[stump]

Originally posted by TaosX:

I'm thinking about removal of the restriction "one sector = one station." That will give the oportunity to build any station you want right nearby.

That is just what I was thinking about while building a refinery in a void sector.

+1
Thank You

P.S. The sky boxes are gorgeous!

[Therlun]

I just tried out the latest experimental branch and I agree with the OP.
A lot of nice quality of life improvements but the core part of the game is missing for me now.
I only played the game shortly after release and now again. I didn't experience the intermediate builds. So my comments have to been seen in that light, directly comparing the first design with the latest experimental one.

I can see how the tutorial/help made it somewhat hard to get into the game's system, but my personal taste would have preferred more complexity in some areas instead of less. Ships were already "too easy". The cosmetic customisation potential was nice but their design had no mechanical design choices. Freighters could look very different, and you could upgrade certain components like batteries to make them slightly more efficient, but ultimately there were not enough requirements and restrictions to really have an impact.

Stations were slightly more interesting as the different production chains required somewhat different designs. There was also the occasional special station like a shipyard, energy-, research- or a storage hub.

Now freighters and tankers are superfluous and stations build themselves in very rigid predesigns. All that is left for me to actually build is combat ships mid and late game I guess?

I'm also sorry to sound mostly negative. I still really like some parts of the game. The new terraforming is neat for example.
I can also see how it is difficult to balance the requirements of new players and make the game deep at the same time. But whereas I did recommend the original game as something already fun with potential I would not do so for the latest experimental build. There just isn't enough meat in the game any more.

[TaosX]

Hey! Thank you for the feedback. No worries, I'm always glad to hear the honest opinion.

As I wrote, I expected that kind of feedback from some of players. Note, that I get positive reviews too (join our Discord channel to take part in the discussion) and as a player myself I personally enjoy playing it. Plus, still to be seen the reaction of new players.

I understand that it's always a huge risk to change a choosen game direction, because chances are that some part of the players who loved removed features will leave negative reviews. But, honestly, my choice was hard: to make some improvements in the Update 1 build, release it as 1.0 and stop the further development; or to try to attract wider auditory to be able to continue working on the game.

One of the comminity members gave me a good idea. My current plan:
1. Make the Update 2 build as good as possible.
2. Leave the Update 1 build as the main (I'm not taking it away from you) and release the new build as a free DLC. This way two builds will be available simultaneously: Update 1 for those who love hardcore gameplay, Update 2 for everyone else. It will be easy to switch by installing/uninstalling of the DLC.
3. After the DLC release, make decision about the future of the project. If the release is successful, I'll incorporate the best new features into the Update 1 (that are compatible); gather feedback, gather statistics to see what people actually play and decide what branch to develop next.

[Regicide]

Originally posted by TaosX:

One of the comminity members gave me a good idea. My current plan:
1. Make the Update 2 build as good as possible.
2. Leave the Update 1 build as the main (I'm not taking it away from you) and release the new build as a free DLC. This way two builds will be available simultaneously: Update 1 for those who love hardcore gameplay, Update 2 for everyone else. It will be easy to switch by installing/uninstalling of the DLC.
3. After the DLC release, make decision about the future of the project. If the release is successul, I'll implement the best new features into the Update 1 (that are compatible); gather feedback, gather statistics to see what people actually play and decide what branch to develop next.

Just out of curiosity: What about my suggestion, combining Update 1 and 2 in one game, and make them chooseable during New Game creation, where you have to pick one.
(I first suggested making this chooseable for each sector, but you said that would crash the Hint system, with the other solution you don't need to to change either of the Hint systems, because with picking Update 1 (Hardcore) it's automaticly deactivated.)

That way You wouldn't have to maintain a seperate DLC and people don't need to activate/deactivate it everytime (which also maybe will confuse some players)

Last but not least: No matter if Update 1 will be a DLC, a Beta Branch or combined and implemented into the game, I really would love to see some of the QoL improvements from Update 2! (But I think that's what you allready said under 3. so should be fine :-)

[TaosX]

Sorry, combining two updates into one is not really possible. They differ by thousands of lines of code, two sets of UI, player controls, graphic assets. It will be a complete mess with a huge number of bugs.

[Regicide]

Originally posted by TaosX:

Sorry, combining two updates into one is not really possible. They differ by thousands of lines of code, two sets of UI, player controls, graphic assets. It will be a complete mess with a huge number of bugs.

Oay, thanks for the clarification! I don't know anything about programming, hence the question. Then the DLC would probably be the smartest option!

[ganthritor42]

Okay! So I downloaded the experimental branch and played for like, eight hours yesterday lol.

1-The research screen was indeed a shock when first coming into it. I think it is actually better for navigating overall, but that GLARE of white smacking you in the face after everything else is usually darker is a bit to deal with. Overall, this feels like a definite improvement to me, UI wise and utility wise.

2-I really liked how quick and intuitive the build flow works for the stations. It really streamlines that for speed and for new player who might not have the different machines memorized and gets everything set with few simple clicks. I like how you can navigate immediately to research a new demand for colony right from that screen. I like how it takes you to a station with an available slot to set for the new requirement.

3-I definitely am not a fan of teleporting, even in the other version, I was all about the traders moving things, and having different sized storages and the ability to update specific things as I worked out kinks in my supply lines. I also do not like the limitation of how many lines a station is able to support--but I get this is probably here to help you not overtax your economy on resources. I found myself routing entire planet stations to void ones I built custom to handle flow and throughput for more demands that I had stations with slots able to support that--I ran into this with plastic plate and fuel and routed all output from the oil planet I had there to this custom station so I could split oil feeds into three fabricators per, which I can't do with the auto-build stations. I think if modifying them was easier, or I could split outputs on them, it wouldn't bother me so much? I prefer to build storage within production lines that allows for fluctuation in demand, and to supply demand as needed, not continually.

4-There were some ship behavior changes I did not expect, or like. My energy transport ships would only put like. 1000 energy into one of my custom stations and then move on even if they had a crap ton more energy, I was up to using plasma batteries at this point, and I was relying on them to supply energy from elsewhere for the material creators I had up and running, and also serving as like, an intermediate routing station. I found myself babysitting the station to handle dumping most of their energy into the station before they left so it would stay running. Maybe it's just me building an overly energy demanding station but I had not had this issue before on the main branch.

When I built several combat ships, they would not auto supply from a storage location when I set the auto combat ship behavior, and I don't particularly like having to manually bring them to a station to reload their storage areas I built, and as above I am not a fan of the teleporting, especially if I have to dedicate a single production line for EACH ship instead of them replenishing as necessary, if I use the new station layout process. I realise I could work around that with a custom station and routing teleporters that way, but that is behavior that existed before and not what I expected to happen here. Unless I have just misunderstood how to supply combat ships lol, that is totally possible.

I didn't play long enough/research enough to play with the new 'living' metals yet, but I am definitely excited about them!