PLAYER ALIGNMENT AND CHOICES

[The Brotherhood]

I am really interested in the choices players are making. In most of the let's plays and according to the Steam Stats most of you are playing the good guy. You are nice to Don and Pooch and the denizens in the world.

Do you normally play this way? Anybody like being the bad guy? :)

[Night Nord]

TBH, I am kinda disappointed by the whole choice thing.

I liked that you can save/recreate the nest, I disliked that it's totally random and unexpected. Also I wanted to talk to Chitzyama and be like "I met your gods, I've killed them, mwhahaha", but there is just no such option.

Also, there are many points you can make stupid treats ("what if I'll just take it"), and they generally mean/do nothing

On, topic of being good/bad guy - the whole idea is undermined by the fact that the whole game you are being told that you are going back in time. If you are going to be harsh on Pooch, she'll report you to superiors. And Dan is your brother and also the pilot that would need to get you back home - also a witness to your crime of trespassing and stealing secret military information.

Being harsh on them is not "bad", it's just plain stupid. Same with other dialogs - making treats and being an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ when you are surrounded by dozen heavily armed soldiers is not "bad", it's stupid.

But hey, I committed couple genocides (even though I could have just play some video games) and put super-weapon trigger into hands of a bunch of bandits, but I am a good guy because I wasn't dumb enough to tell armed people to ♥♥♥♥ off :P

P.S. Actually in my opinion there is no "good" way in the game - you always end up killing whole bunch of people/things one way or another. I kinda liked that until the ending that was like "hahaha, it all wasn't real, lol" - which IMHO just lame. It would be such a great opportunity for "a price of truth" dramatic moment.

[Adhan]

Is there any difference in helping Nest Alpha vs Nest Beta? The first want the biome seeding device and the second want the Divide to go away. Can I side with both Moss and one of the Nests?

[The Brotherhood]

Originally posted by Adhan:

Is there any difference in helping Nest Alpha vs Nest Beta? The first want the biome seeding device and the second want the Divide to go away. Can I side with both Moss and one of the Nests?

You can help either the moss, the nest or doc Taylor. The Nest can kill Taylor if you use the virus then you need to help the moss or nest.

[Adhan]

Originally posted by The Brotherhood:

Originally posted by Adhan:

Is there any difference in helping Nest Alpha vs Nest Beta? The first want the biome seeding device and the second want the Divide to go away. Can I side with both Moss and one of the Nests?

You can help either the moss, the nest or doc Taylor. The Nest can kill Taylor if you use the virus then you need to help the moss or nest.

Maybe I didn't enunciate it properly. Let's say I side with the Moss. Does it matter (for the final outcome) if prior to this I've used the virus on the doctor or is it just for the achievement? From what I understand one Nest wants the doctor alive and the other dead?

[American Dove Mitten]

Originally posted by Adhan:

Originally posted by The Brotherhood:

You can help either the moss, the nest or doc Taylor. The Nest can kill Taylor if you use the virus then you need to help the moss or nest.

Maybe I didn't enunciate it properly. Let's say I side with the Moss. Does it matter (for the final outcome) if prior to this I've used the virus on the doctor or is it just for the achievement? From what I understand one Nest wants the doctor alive and the other dead?

I don't think that you can turn in the quest to either side.

[Adhan]

@American Beetle, you can if you place the protonanite in the fley terminal AND side with the Mongrels. Thus both Nests survive (if you gave Nest Alpha the biome seeding), or Nest Beta and Moss (if you gave Moss the biome seeding).

[Raptor]

Well, so to get all 4 ending temples I have to play whole game 4x. There is no change in game itself. Nuke camp A or B doesn't matter. Just to be more or less rude or other NPCs, right? So just speed runs. Hmm, it is little... boring :-) Like 3 colored endings in Mass Effect.

[Grim]

To answer the original question, yes, i usually play the "good guy", the polite, comprehensive good guy. I tried to play that way in Beautiful Desolation.
It is usually interesting when there are other options, when you can play the bad guy, benefit more for doing so, bugger ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to feel better, and yet, you (well, I) play the good guy, no matter what. It's painful, but I feel better for sticking to my character and values.

Anyway, i think there is room for more nuance than good/bad guy. Mass effect has been mentionned here, the intersting thing about it was that the 'bad' option was pragmatic, not being an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ or being bad just for the sake of it. There was a big stake, the player was pushed in a position of decision, in need of results. The 'good' choice was not so clear.
Of course I played Paragon and the game was very gentle about the consequences, but it could have been much more harsh. The tradeoffs don't have to be equal or egalitarian, they can push on different sliders.
Frostpunk has good examples of that, pushing you to pass laws against freedom and rigths of the individuals in exchange of more chances of success = survival (of the group, and the species!).

These are just examples on pragmatism, but there may be a lot more points of view, philosophical schools and morale views. The more ways you give the player to play and find their way, the better.

[The Brotherhood]

Originally posted by Grim:

To answer the original question, yes, i usually play the "good guy", the polite, comprehensive good guy. I tried to play that way in Beautiful Desolation.
It is usually interesting when there are other options, when you can play the bad guy, benefit more for doing so, bugger ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to feel better, and yet, you (well, I) play the good guy, no matter what. It's painful, but I feel better for sticking to my character and values.

Anyway, i think there is room for more nuance than good/bad guy. Mass effect has been mentionned here, the intersting thing about it was that the 'bad' option was pragmatic, not being an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ or being bad just for the sake of it. There was a big stake, the player was pushed in a position of decision, in need of results. The 'good' choice was not so clear.
Of course I played Paragon and the game was very gentle about the consequences, but it could have been much more harsh. The tradeoffs don't have to be equal or egalitarian, they can push on different sliders.
Frostpunk has good examples of that, pushing you to pass laws against freedom and rigths of the individuals in exchange of more chances of success = survival (of the group, and the species!).

These are just examples on pragmatism, but there may be a lot more points of view, philosophical schools and morale views. The more ways you give the player to play and find their way, the better.

In terms of the answers to the conversations, they were normally one of three tiers:

Answer 1: Respectful
Answer 2: Neutral
Answer 3: Culturally Insensitive.

[Red Star, Blood Moon]

I'd suspected that there was some kind of a morality system at play but I had no clue it was just based on text. Honestly had I known that I would have been as big a massive ♥♥♥♥ to everyone as I possibly could have. The sole reason why I actually didn't was because I didn't know what the outcomes of other situations would be and how that would affect it. I did realize however that there was no way to get myself killed. Yes, when the opportunity presented I tried repeatedly just to check that parameter. There is no fail state in this game.

Regarding that I think it should be much more interestingly noted that probably the reason for the attitude of people like below thinking we're good guys is just because we think we're going to be punished for it. This is a strange game and it's not entirely clear how much or in what way's you're changing the game's state by picking different pathways, and because of the way the dialogue system is structured where you can't even go back and ask multiple questions it appears as though you may easily be taking some kind of unforseen quest root you can't back out on. Or it was for me anyway.

Originally posted by Ranzaar:

Cuz in real life we all are good guys???

People are good and brave when it's convenient for them.

Originally posted by Adhan:

@American Beetle, you can if you place the protonanite in the fley terminal AND side with the Mongrels. Thus both Nests survive (if you gave Nest Alpha the biome seeding), or Nest Beta and Moss (if you gave Moss the biome seeding). :lunar2019grinningpig:

Oh ♥♥♥♥ that's what I did wrong? I was wondering why the Nest survived. I tried to make sure I had completely exterminated them.

In terms of my play and honestly I'm only even here because I've been trying to find an explanation for just wtf happened with the ending I found it a bit of a confusing letdown, like Mass Effect 3 level of letdown what are you guys doing and why did you make the entire game so superbly done and then just ending it like that? I mean your setup for why those statues were there was so great and it had real potential to be poignant and then just gave us that confusing fart in the breeze I was genuinely surprised to have been given this "garden of generosity." I could immediately tell that it was some kind of endgame alignment reading but baffled how I got it. No, not because I more than once badgered NPCs for giving up more of the kibble although I did that too, but because like other people said I committed multiple atrocities.

Honestly the most accurate reading, to me, on how I played this game was on the fact my brother left me at the end. I was still trying to be nice, but more from being in a threatening and alien landscape where me being threatening or insulting to a bunch of strangers in a place I don't understand where even questlines are an unknown quantity seemed like a rather bad idea, and even then I still ended up threatening or insulting some things. The closest thing to a truly benevolent and selflessly pure act was exterminating both NEST and the Moss, even though I was torn because I personally liked the Moss but it was clear to me that they had no business being in this world with humans. Oh yeah, probably a few other decent acts. And Chiznyama was a bit more of an accident. I fully made sure to describe them in the worst manner possible but didn't expect them to be outright genocided. I did not understand this was a game mechanic until later

Really the karmic system is just weird and trivialized. I loved the game thoroughly, but if you guys were interested in that kind of decision making I'd say it's more of an interesting psychological experiment about how we all expect to be punished. If I knew I wasn't even going to lose dialogue options over it I'd have insulted and threatened and cursed my way across this game.

Actually you know what ♥♥♥♥ Mark, I was nice to him for the most part and I even fixed his stupid robot.