Too little too late.

[Maverick]

Really and truly, steam needs to have a "Must leave EA within X amount of time / people are allowed to refund at any time up until EA ends." because games like Killsquad are why I don't trust indie devs anymore.

"Mixed" is better than this game deserves. Nearly 2 years of development and nothing meaningful has changed. 2 years of doing nothing but swearing how much you care about the game while it died, just like I said it would back when I spoke to one of the devs here on the forums. I told them they needed more class variety and to fix the netcode. Now the game is sitting in the single digits most days, and the summer sale has brought that number up to a WHOPPING 23 players as of a few minutes ago.....most of which will either refund when they realize there's no Multiplayer to be played, or that they can't even play with their friends because the netcode is so bad.

Devs killed the game pretending to love it while they blew the money on shills, coke and hookers and have the gall to lie to the paying players faces and say "We work so hard on this game".

OK, then show me the "work" because from where I'm standing you've changed the UI around and the game itself is still the same boring, one-track, no player thought needed combat even on harder difficulties. It just doesn't do anything right. It had potential to be good. Keyword, Had.

You have had just shy of TWO YEARS to finish this game. That's insanity. You should have not sold a product you knew you couldn't complete, nor ever had intentions TO complete.

Now, Novarama are just a bunch of has-been hacks that I know to avoid, and I hope you do too.

[VeeKain]

I know the "excuse" is getting old but I feel like we should give them a little bit of slack here. There was a pandemic that happened during that 2 years of EA. I don't think it's entirely fair to say the last year has been the same for devs as an average year.

They're still on here all the time, taking feedback, fixing bugs. It's not like they took the money and ran. Not saying the game is a masterpiece and doesn't need more changes, but I don't think it's time to give up Novarama just yet.

[Captain Geriatric]

I guess you are frustrated but i don't feel the same about the game. I found 2 friends already playing the game with me when possible. I am new to Killsquad because i just recently found out about it but i think this game is still better than anything else on the market i haven't played already.

I bought monster hunter world, refunded because i find its absolutety overrated, then i got last epoch which is like a mobile game, absolutely overrated. Then i got no mans sky because i thought oh after 5 years the game should be good now until a mob "touched" me and i flew 50 meters away then 100 meters to the air and refunded. I could tell that these game are not for me in 2 hours of playtime but Killsquad! Killsquad is underrated in my opinion and its a good game!

Also 2 years in early access is nothing. I am still waiting for project zomboid to finish and thats already 7 years in early access? And thats early access is for. You support the development of the game. If you don't want to then don't spend your money and wait until the game is finished. There are games which absolutely failed during their early access phase but Killsquad is definitely not one of them.

Also i didnt experience any problems with lag while playing with friends from europe and yesterday someone from china joined. He seemed to have abit of lag but nothing terrible so the netcode cant be that bad.

[tehgreg]

I think that many of us underestimate how time consuming making a game is. This is a small studio that had to adapt to a global pandemic mid-development. They had to revamp some systems from the scratch because the old ones simply didn’t work. This game is a true early access experience, unlike other games from bigger companies that release a pretty much complete product under the guise of EA to avoid backlash for any bugs/bad design. The first iteration of the game was basically a tech demo with almost no content.

Do you know who finishes a game in 2-3 years? Big companies with hundreds of employees. Let’s take older Call of Duty games for example. Insanely huge corporations would spend 3 years to pump out a next CoD game that was “basically the same crap again, on the same engine and sometimes with the same assets” .

I’ve been following the game since the day 1 and while I am against some of their decisions regarding game design or the priority of adding things I still believe this can be an even better game. Sure, it was frustrating that updates weren’t really giving me what I wanted but in the end all of them were for the good of the game. I and other people leave messages on their Discord with many bug reports which end up being fixed.

The devs haven’t run away and are still working on the game. There’s a clear roadmap on their Steam page. Even if you don’t believe in it, do you know who believes in it? Sony. The game is going to be on Playstation and if such a big corporation wanted to side with scammers it would be pretty bad for them. With the Cyberpunk fiasco they are probably on alert even more than ever.

Your concerns would be valid if the devs actually took the money and ran. Based on their activity, I don’t think that they have given up on the game. I and other faithful players certainly haven’t given up on them.

[Novarama]

Hello Pixel,

We respect everybody's opinions, and we're sorry to read yours.

Needless to say, we won't convince you of anything. We just want to give our side of the same story for context.

- We have published 13 updates since EA launch. You can see the "main" ones here:

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/910490/view/5391352763132745098

- Of course, you don't find these updates satisfactory. Makes sense: Killsquad is not perfect, needless to say. But also remember you may have an "ideal" game in mind, and we may have a different one. In other words: Killsquad is not trying to become the game YOU have in mind, it's trying to become the one WE had in mind. So, what you feel the game needs may be very different to what we feel. For example, you may think "Killsquad should be like PoE", and we may be thinking "Killsquad should be like Gauntlet". Again, just an example, but I hope it explains our point.

- One thing that worries us though is the netcode issue you mentioned: the game should work fine in terms of network. If it doesn't, could you get in touch with us at [e-mail]? We're here to help. Are you playing on VPNs, cybercafés, or any specific set-up we should be aware of? What kind of ping are you experiencing? (from the contract browser) As you know, if you're pairing with strangers for a contract, these may be anywhere in the world, so we recommend only to join up sessions with reasonable ping times.

- And last, about the "no community", Killsquad is not designed to be a game where you go and "meet up" people: being Early Access that's really hard to achieve. Killsquad is a game we hope people buy with their own friends, to play together, much like Gauntlet or Left4Dead: we all played those games for hundreds of hours, but they are not an "mmo" experience say like Destiny where you play with random users: we *do* support that, but our game is currently built for group play with friends. That's why (I hope you'll remember that) we even sold packs of four some months ago (until Steam told us not to): this is a game to "team up and play"

And all the comments about coke, shills, and the team don't add much to this discussion. I don't see how insulting people who are working hard on something (whether you see it or not) helps this discussion be useful in any way. We're having tons of conversations on how to make the game better, we love to get your opinion as well. Believe it or not, we do our best, with our limited means, to listen. But this must always start from a position of mutual respect.

Thanks!

[Kashra Fall]

Originally posted by Novarama:

Hello Pixel,

We respect everybody's opinions, and we're sorry to read yours.

Needless to say, we won't convince you of anything. We just want to give our side of the same story for context.

- We have published 13 updates since EA launch. You can see the "main" ones here:

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/910490/view/5391352763132745098

- Of course, you don't find these updates satisfactory. Makes sense: Killsquad is not perfect, needless to say. But also remember you may have an "ideal" game in mind, and we may have a different one. In other words: Killsquad is not trying to become the game YOU have in mind, it's trying to become the one WE had in mind. So, what you feel the game needs may be very different to what we feel. For example, you may think "Killsquad should be like PoE", and we may be thinking "Killsquad should be like Gauntlet". Again, just an example, but I hope it explains our point.

- One thing that worries us though is the netcode issue you mentioned: the game should work fine in terms of network. If it doesn't, could you get in touch with us at [e-mail]? We're here to help. Are you playing on VPNs, cybercafés, or any specific set-up we should be aware of? What kind of ping are you experiencing? (from the contract browser) As you know, if you're pairing with strangers for a contract, these may be anywhere in the world, so we recommend only to join up sessions with reasonable ping times.

- And last, about the "no community", Killsquad is not designed to be a game where you go and "meet up" people: being Early Access that's really hard to achieve. Killsquad is a game we hope people buy with their own friends, to play together, much like Gauntlet or Left4Dead: we all played those games for hundreds of hours, but they are not an "mmo" experience say like Destiny where you play with random users: we *do* support that, but our game is currently built for group play with friends. That's why (I hope you'll remember that) we even sold packs of four some months ago (until Steam told us not to): this is a game to "team up and play"

And all the comments about coke, shills, and the team don't add much to this discussion. I don't see how insulting people who are working hard on something (whether you see it or not) helps this discussion be useful in any way. We're having tons of conversations on how to make the game better, we love to get your opinion as well. Believe it or not, we do our best, with our limited means, to listen. But this must always start from a position of mutual respect.

Thanks!

Makes ya feel any better, I'm a new buyer and I'm loving the game even while playing solo. Not digging the talisman grind though, is it just random 1 drops each collesieum?

[Killsquad]

Hello Kashra Fall!

We are happy to read that you are loving the game. It really makes the day for us.

About the talismans, you will find the first fragment at one of the coliseums, check the talisman descriptions to know which fragments can be obtained at which coliseum. Also, when you get this first fragment you must equip it to increase the drop chance of the other fragments. Those last two fragments can be found as drops at nearby contracts from the coliseum. Once you have the three fragments, the Talisman will be crafted and ready to use. Keep in mind that you will need to level up the full talisman just by playing contracts to remove some debuffs and unlock the full potential of the Talisman

Thank you for your interest in KILLSQUAD,
Sheik Sama ♫

[Kashra Fall]

Originally posted by Killsquad:

Hello Kashra Fall!

We are happy to read that you are loving the game. It really makes the day for us.

About the talismans, you will find the first fragment at one of the coliseums, check the talisman descriptions to know which fragments can be obtained at which coliseum. Also, when you get this first fragment you must equip it to increase the drop chance of the other fragments. Those last two fragments can be found as drops at nearby contracts from the coliseum. Once you have the three fragments, the Talisman will be crafted and ready to use. Keep in mind that you will need to level up the full talisman just by playing contracts to remove some debuffs and unlock the full potential of the Talisman

Thank you for your interest in KILLSQUAD,
Sheik Sama ♫

Thanks for the advice!

[Andraste's Grace]

Originally posted by Kashra Fall:

Originally posted by Killsquad:

Hello Kashra Fall!

We are happy to read that you are loving the game. It really makes the day for us.

About the talismans, you will find the first fragment at one of the coliseums, check the talisman descriptions to know which fragments can be obtained at which coliseum. Also, when you get this first fragment you must equip it to increase the drop chance of the other fragments. Those last two fragments can be found as drops at nearby contracts from the coliseum. Once you have the three fragments, the Talisman will be crafted and ready to use. Keep in mind that you will need to level up the full talisman just by playing contracts to remove some debuffs and unlock the full potential of the Talisman

Thank you for your interest in KILLSQUAD,
Sheik Sama ♫

Thanks for the advice!

I think you will get bored after a certain "vector"
You will find this game hollow.
The rating in the store page are like this everytime on sale.
Negative -> mixed -> sale -> mostly positive ->mixed -> Negative -> sale -> loop
It happened in the past and will go on.
The so called updated are just fillers. There are no plans on fixing the core problems.

[PRETTYBOYSWAG]

Completely disagree, i played when it first came out and a lot has changed. I don't think you quite know what you are talking about.

[MightyGrue]

Originally posted by Andraste's Grace:

Originally posted by Kashra Fall:

Thanks for the advice!

I think you will get bored after a certain "vector"
You will find this game hollow.
The rating in the store page are like this everytime on sale.
Negative -> mixed -> sale -> mostly positive ->mixed -> Negative -> sale -> loop
It happened in the past and will go on.
The so called updated are just fillers. There are no plans on fixing the core problems.

I'm interested in hearing what the core problems are from your perspective?

[Kashra Fall]

Originally posted by Andraste's Grace:

Originally posted by Kashra Fall:

Thanks for the advice!

I think you will get bored after a certain "vector"
You will find this game hollow.
The rating in the store page are like this everytime on sale.
Negative -> mixed -> sale -> mostly positive ->mixed -> Negative -> sale -> loop
It happened in the past and will go on.
The so called updated are just fillers. There are no plans on fixing the core problems.

Different strokes for different folks? I fought the same troll in vindictus for 24 hours looking for a specific drop. Tedium isn't my worst enemy =P. I just enjoy the flow of everything in kill squad.

[lopedo]

I personally think the game is awful and the devs are interested in making the game they want, which is fine, but expecting sales from that philosophy is.... kind of silly. I'm glad for the people that have fun with it, and for the devs because they make a dime from that audience.

At its core though this is exactly what an "indie game with no future" is. Low sales, unhappy forums, and devs that are making a game for themselves with the intention of selling it to people. And that last part there doesn't make too much sense to me.

[Novarama]

Originally posted by Chat is off sorry if I do bad:

I personally think the game is awful and the devs are interested in making the game they want, which is fine, but expecting sales from that philosophy is.... kind of silly. I'm glad for the people that have fun with it, and for the devs because they make a dime from that audience.

At its core though this is exactly what an "indie game with no future" is. Low sales, unhappy forums, and devs that are making a game for themselves with the intention of selling it to people. And that last part there doesn't make too much sense to me.

Well, thank you for the honesty and at least civilized tone, even in a criticism.

So, that deserves a proper response. We think games are super personal: some people may hate a game, some people may love it. An extreme minority is so well done, it may get universal acclaim (say, Zelda). But most games don't get that level of universal praise.

We feel Killsquad is divisive just because different audiences like different things and, when they don't get what they want, of course (and understandably) they hate it. But not because it's bad: it's because it's not what they like, and they are pissed off because the game COULD be what they wanted, but it's not. Example: I hate lobster. With all my soul. But it seems a lot of people love it. Does that make lobster ♥♥♥♥? No, not really.

Back to Killsquad: if you came into the game seeking the next LostArk/Path of Exile, no, we're not going to give you that, I am afraid. It wasn't designed to be kind of game, among other things as those games require a studio 10 times our size. But if you're looking for an update of the classic Gauntlet formula to play with your friends, you'll most likely have a blast. So, is the game good or bad? Depends on who you ask, and what he likes.

As per sales, they are not HUGE but, hey, +100.000 copies sold *in Early Access* is not what I would call "a game with no sales" ;-)

Again, thanks for the civilized comment!

[Tyrian Mollusk]

Originally posted by VeeKain:

Not saying the game is a masterpiece and doesn't need more changes, but I don't think it's time to give up Novarama just yet.

I'm more concerned that Anvil is going to eat their lunch and maintaining or making Killsquad better (which it definitely needs some of) will become unviable or unrewarding (something devs will never admit but that has killed many a small "could have been" project). Anvil has players consistently looking forward to their early access and some very simple, obvious things to fix from their free playtest around the last Next Fest.

Meanwhile, Killsquad doesn't have poor sales, but has efficiently converted players into ex-players who are more than happy to tell people where not to spend their money. Killsquad has things to fix that often are not obvious, and that require genuine work and design insight, and its team seems focused far more on what they can hold back than on what they can make more fun, while telling us strange things like "we make you replay missions to repeatedly pick up obvious 'hidden' TECs because searching boring spaces for things you already know are there is gameplay". No, that is not gameplay. If I take your house keys and hide them under a rock in your yard, you're not thinking "Yes, that is just how I wanted to spend my leisure time!"

Also, if Gauntlet is our model here, then we do have some core problems to talk about. Gauntlet is pretty brisk, fighting through swarms to knock down generators. Killsquad is slow and each bit forward you go, it spawns a samey mob in front and behind a flat empty space for you to clean up and go on, like a janitor. You also spend a LOT of really draggy time checking dead ends for minor drops, and to catch all the mobs so you can be allowed to play your character at the ability level you invested a bunch of time in unlocking.

Another very important point is that the world has long moved past Gauntlet, and players should expect games to offer them experiences that stay fresh, because we know how to do a lot better than the same flat thing over and over and "put a quarter in for more health".

Devs need to make the game they want, but that doesn't mean the game they want to make, it means the game they want to play more than anything someone else made. I don't feel that spark when I play Killsquad. Killsquad feels like developers are just kind of making something hoping it will be ok.

[😎Astran😾]

During a year "She Will Punish Them" was a 30-players-online game. It's 12k peak online today. Things may change overnight.