Imperial Criminality-How to lower it outside of Cities

[Emperor Marcus]

Kay.... So I might have killed several Imperial Tax Collectors in a row cause I'm like a dragon and I like sitting on my horde of pretty shiny coins. As a result of this Any large city I go to they try to immpediantly arrest me.

Previous to this I would always pay the fine at the city... How do you do that once your banned from the city effectively? Just wait waisting supplies? For how long? Or is there somewhere else a criminal like me who wants to make a profit can go to bribe the right officals.

[Wlerin]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Romanio:

Where can find my Imperial Criminal statistics?

There is no way to see it directly in-game. Easiest way to know you have some is if the guards stop you when you try to leave a major city. That only happens if you have 2+ though, to know if you have 1 you can check whether you're allowed to buy a license for a larger armed force.

To see the actual value, it's necessary to look in the debug log.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Goldtooth™:

There is no "Extra" tax when exiting cities unless you don't pay it on the way in. With things like this being overlooked or not read, imagine what else you are doing without meaning to.

Lots of things increase criminality

There isn't an extra tax, but there is an option to pay a fine or try to bribe the guards when they stop you on the way out. Paying the fine only reduces your rating by 1, but it's still far more efficient and not time-gated than paying at the magistrate, where the fee seems to scale with the cycles of the moon* and has a long timer--and only reduces it by 2.

The wraith black market event in Deven probably needs to be retuned, at present it's possible to get as much criminal rating from a single visit as you'd get from wiping out a group of tax collectors.



* Some people have reported paying ridiculous fines at the magistrate, but it doesn't seem to scale off wealth nor your current criminal rating. I'd guess it depends on how many times you've paid the fine? That is not something I am willing to invest the time to test.

[Romanio]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Wlerin:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Romanio:

Where can find my Imperial Criminal statistics?

There is no way to see it directly in-game. Easiest way to know you have some is if the guards stop you when you try to leave a major city. That only happens if you have 2+ though, to know if you have 1 you can check whether you're allowed to buy a license for a larger armed force.

To see the actual value, it's necessary to look in the debug log.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Goldtooth™:

There is no "Extra" tax when exiting cities unless you don't pay it on the way in. With things like this being overlooked or not read, imagine what else you are doing without meaning to.

Lots of things increase criminality

There isn't an extra tax, but there is an option to pay a fine or try to bribe the guards when they stop you on the way out. Paying the fine only reduces your rating by 1, but it's still far more efficient and not time-gated than paying at the magistrate, where the fee seems to scale with the cycles of the moon* and has a long timer--and only reduces it by 2.

The wraith black market event in Deven probably needs to be retuned, at present it's possible to get as much criminal rating from a single visit as you'd get from wiping out a group of tax collectors.



* Some people have reported paying ridiculous fines at the magistrate, but it doesn't seem to scale off wealth nor your current criminal rating. I'd guess it depends on how many times you've paid the fine? That is not something I am willing to invest the time to test.

Got it. I've been talking with you on Discord. I looked at the log file in the save game folder and didn't see anything about it maybe somewhere else?

I'm shocked at how many games you have you're a good collector when you have time to play them all?:))))

[Unimax]

Just happened to me... went to salt camp paid the price but then on the way to denver hunters attacked me (not sure killing them made be max criminal again..) but then i reached denver they did not let me enter. now i am stuck...i guess i try once more after 30 days else quit this ♥♥♥♥...
I did not know this happen, nor game showed me any status anywhere. I though ♥♥♥♥ the tax collectors is a way to go if you have the means....

reloaded, payed at salt camp. went straight to Denver did not let me enter...

[You know my name.]

Really need to implement a freaking system to be able to see your criminality. Really awful idea to not even know when you get it at times esp when doing certain things, obv attacking the tax collector who was killed and no one lived to tell anyone clearly could only have been you as the tax collectors dont tax anyone else so makes perfect sense.

[Andkat]

Err it is a recurring point in the setting that the Akshulites can call the spirits of the dead to interogate the cause and context of their demise, something that would certainly be done in this case. This is also notwithstanding the possibility of the odd incapacitated survivor missed in the mound of corpses or your own crew or passengers either having loose lips or getting interrogated by Sergorodites while in a city and information that could be gleaned by the authorities from comitati and travelers that passed you or the tax collectors by on the road. There's numerous mechanisms by which your assault of a heavily guarded toll collecting party could be revealed to the authorities even if nobody withdraws from the field.

[You know my name.]

Then with that logic, i should have numerous ways to know about my criminality system instead of the odd post the devs posted a while back about "its not something you would know about" while there is literally 2 criminal gangs openly holed up in the major cities.

[Boz]

We appreciate the passionate discussion and feedback regarding the criminality rating in our game. It's clear that this is a topic that many of you feel strongly about, and we want to take a moment to explain our perspective and the design philosophy behind our decision.

As developers, we strive to create an immersive and challenging experience. Part of this involves maintaining a level of realism and unpredictability in the game world. We believe that not showing the criminality rating in the UI contributes to a more authentic and engaging experience. Here’s why:

Immersion and Realism: Just like in real life, characters must navigate a complex social landscape without explicit indicators. This encourages players to think carefully about their actions and consider the potential consequences.

Meta Gaming: Displaying the criminality rating might lead to meta gaming, where players make decisions based solely on numerical values rather than immersing themselves in the game’s narrative and moral dilemmas. We want players to feel the weight of their choices and not reduce interactions to a numbers game.

In-Game Feedback: While we don’t show a direct criminality rating, there are in-game cues and consequences that reflect your standing (guards reacting to you differently way before outright hostility happens). These indirect indicators are meant to encourage players to pay attention to the world around them and adapt accordingly.

We understand that this approach can be challenging and may not align with everyone’s playstyle. However, we believe it enhances the depth and complexity of the game. Your feedback is invaluable, and we will continue to consider it as we evolve the game.

[Boz]

Początkowo opublikowane przez greegarak:

Criminality should mentioned at least under "g" keyword in game.
Or dissonance mode could be spoiling about it in some way.

This is completely right! We are on it.

[Boz]

We also feel it is imperative to point out that there are ways to lower criminality (essentially by bribing officials). This option is available in most major settlements. If you reach a point where you cannot enter cities at all, there are certain NPCs who can act on your behalf to lower your criminality rating, but their intermediation will cost you considerably more.
This mechanic will be described in details in the Glossary with the next update.

[Andkat]

Początkowo opublikowane przez You know my name.:

Then with that logic, i should have numerous ways to know about my criminality system instead of the odd post the devs posted a while back about "its not something you would know about" while there is literally 2 criminal gangs openly holed up in the major cities.

Well, you can literally just walk into the bounties office and be presented with the option to pay a proportion of outstanding fines and penalties if you have any.

[You know my name.]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Boz:

Immersion and Realism: Just like in real life, characters must navigate a complex social landscape without explicit indicators. This encourages players to think carefully about their actions and consider the potential consequences.

Immersion is being able to find our your criminality or how bad the law wants you by talking to the criminal gangs who clearly have ties to corrupted individuals, or maybe seeing wanted posters for yourself esp when bounty hunters are sent after you. Esp when your logic is somehow they can find out about random tax collectors dying outside city halls insanely far away but that logic cant be used for me to find my criminality rating like per say some loose lip drunk soldier in the city

Immersion/realism breaking is somehow my storage being limited to the slots its at while i can clearly get over 600 storage and could clearly carry more

Immersion/realism breaking is when somehow im limited to 3 companions in certain limited battles such as eliminate leaders but not cull the ranks

Immersion/realism breaking is me not being able to remove random npc's from companion battles who i also cant move on the board and are locked in then and i end up doing worse because the npcs are trash while im sitting with other companions could have taken their spot and you only did it to make the game harder not realistic

Immersion/realisim breaking is somehow i woke up one day put a point into arcane lore and understand a language from before i was born within a day.

This is not a valid reason so stop using it.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Boz:

Meta Gaming: Displaying the criminality rating might lead to meta gaming, where players make decisions based solely on numerical values rather than immersing themselves in the game’s narrative and moral dilemmas. We want players to feel the weight of their choices and not reduce interactions to a numbers game.

You already display the criminality rating by the way guards talk to you, as you stated, which i could just meta game off of as well without knowing the exact number. Like in dnd, when they say the creature looks bloody or almost dead instead of just saying its exact hitpoints. You presume we know every law in the game, which our characters would probably know, so when i talk to someone and get a random ass criminality rating that i dont understand where came from, my character possibly would. I can literally walk from town to town and somehow get to the next town and somehow have a fine for something i have no idea what i did because the game doesnt give me a rulebook on every law. i understand perfectly fine when i slaughter the tax collector what ive done just fine.

[You know my name.]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Andkat:

Początkowo opublikowane przez You know my name.:

Then with that logic, i should have numerous ways to know about my criminality system instead of the odd post the devs posted a while back about "its not something you would know about" while there is literally 2 criminal gangs openly holed up in the major cities.

Well, you can literally just walk into the bounties office and be presented with the option to pay a proportion of outstanding fines and penalties if you have any.

Yea, i could also walk into the office and be presented with the list of fines so i know what i actually did as well and learn some lore about the game so i dont do it again instead of randomly having a fine that I dont know where came from.

[Andkat]

Esp when your logic is somehow they can find out about random tax collectors dying outside city halls insanely far away but that logic cant be used for me to find my criminality rating like per say some loose lip drunk soldier in the city

A random drunk soldier wouldn't know the full litany of every fine you had accumulated, whereas loose lips would be one mechanism on top of y'know, necromancy for the empire to directly learn how its personnel died not to mention the bit with running actual dedicated spy agencies and forcibly interrogating with truth-reading magic. You're fixating on a secondary component here, the logic for how the empire can learn of your transgressions doesn't actually apply neatly to how you can interrogate its bureaucracy. It is odd that you can't pay off all your outstanding fines at once however.

[You know my name.]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Andkat:

Esp when your logic is somehow they can find out about random tax collectors dying outside city halls insanely far away but that logic cant be used for me to find my criminality rating like per say some loose lip drunk soldier in the city

A random drunk soldier wouldn't know the full litany of every fine you had accumulated, whereas loose lips would be one mechanism on top of y'know, necromancy for the empire to directly learn how its personnel died not to mention the bit with running actual dedicated spy agencies and forcibly interrogating with truth-reading magic. You're fixating on a secondary component here, the logic for how the empire can learn of your transgressions doesn't actually apply neatly to how you can interrogate its bureaucracy. It is odd that you can't pay off all your outstanding fines at once however.

Then pick a different reason, the loaders guild and carpenters guild clearly have ties to people that you could easily pay to find out. It could be an someone working int he department with loose lips or some slave who heard it, not like they are gonna care if the slave hears that they are after a vagrus for crimes esp when you can walk in and just ask for a bounty anyways. The argument saying how they can find out through using magic to talk to the dead, okay so my vagrus knows that and burns the corpses. Tons of ways they can know and tons of ways i could know as well. I dont care how they find out, the fact of stating we cant find out either is just lazy. They dont wanna add it fine, then just say that. Dont say because of some half baked reason.

[Andkat]

Burning the corpses wouldn't do anything given that it's established in the course of the game that it works fine on even charred bones that are months dead. This isn't an outlandish rationalization, this is a core feature of the setting that becomes a point of consideration in several major questlines. Application of very powerful necromancy is required to render such consultations impossible. Imperial soldiers are also very likely to have Akshullite contracts of binding that would allow location of their corpses even if one attempts to conceal them.