"Wasted" authority/faction reward

[Ninth Hour]

House Venari's Reputation II reward is to grant you +1 Authority and its Reputation V reward is to give +2 Authority.

By the time I gained the Reputation II reward, I already had 5 Authority, so the +1 gain allowed me to field 6 deputies, which was very helpful.

I had thought that, if I put another point into Authority, I could have 7 deputies but, no, it looks like Authority is capped at 6, no matter what bonuses you get. If you raise your baseline Authority from 5 to 6, the extra point from Venari actually disappears from your stat screen.

This means that, unless you plan ahead, and defer on raising your Authority, Venari's Tier 2 and Tier 5 rewards could be wasted. In fact, Tier 5 is almost certainly a waste, since by the time you receive it, you would likely already have achieved maximum Authority long before.

Is it intended that Venari's rewards be so lackluster? It would be a different matter if their bonuses allowed you to exceed the Authority cap and fill all deputy slots but, as it stands now, the Tier 5 reward is basically useless.

[Wlerin]

Scout Master, Supercargo, and Beast Handler are indispensible. Once you've picked up some decent armaments and lances/firebombs, Marauder Prime and Guard Captain are as well. Spellweaver is the only one you could potentially skip in the early game, but that comes up the most often of any deputy slot in Events. (And if you did skip it, the third misc slot from Slavedriver would still be extremely valuable, especially with the new Equipment items added recently.)

As for Darius and Sergorod, yeah, that's almost as fast as levelling Oquo and Loader's Guild together. Again, Venarii doesn't have any allies and they don't get the +80 rep from Crystal. They're a late game faction with a mid-game ultimate.

[Jean-Maurice Nya]

Supercargo is not. It's a good starter, then it is mostly useless. And I don't need Garrick in my current merc run.
Bonuses are never indispensible, they are there to develop your RP, but never indispensible.

You can raise any house to V in a year, a year and a half. Again, that's just a matter of specialization and RP choices. There's some choices that make the game fairly easy, other that still force you to go through some pretty tough challenges.
But there's no mandatory choices if you want to succeed. No indispensible companion.

[Wlerin]

Jean-Maurice Nya eredeti hozzászólása:

Supercargo is not. It's a good starter, then it is mostly useless. And I don't need Garrick in my current merc run.

... Supercargo is indispensable through to endgame, both because it grants 90 extra virtual cargo space that still counts when quests or events reduce your space, and because it gives a Misc equipment slot. (The only other one that does so is Slavedriver, which is truly useless.)

This isn't a meaningful choice, it's just a deadweight benefit.

[Jean-Maurice Nya]

Absolutely not indispensable. You don't need the misc bonus equipment, you don't need the extra cargo because you can max it pretty easily. On my merc run, I'm with lizards and their beast do the job just fine.
I'm doing just fine without Garrick assigned as a deputy. I just need deputies with crew combat bonuses and good scouting abilities.

The supercargo deputy is absolutely useless to me. I have way more interesting choices to make for my Insight points.
Different runs with different RP imply different builds. There isn't just one way to optimize your comitatus.

[Wlerin]

Jean-Maurice Nya eredeti hozzászólása:

Absolutely not indispensable. You don't need the misc bonus equipment, you don't need the extra cargo because you can max it pretty easily.

... except Supercargo gives you *more* than max cargo. You can't actually make use of it normally, but there are various situations e.g. transporting Kandake's research materials to the Leviathan, where it is beneficial.

As to misc equipment, we're clearly never gonna agree.

[Jean-Maurice Nya]

I'm already full, it doesn't allow me to get more stuff, eveything is unlocked. I noticed it on previous runs, there's a limit to max cargo that doesn't match the number of mounts and beasts. There's no scrolling options to review more cargo.

As for the misc spot, I don't care, there's nothing indispensible. I did all my runs without awnings at the moment while plenty of people use it to reduce consumption. I'm fine with more than 200-300 supplies per day, so none of it is indispensible. I don't use the heater shield either, I just use it for the Dread Reavers quest.

Different runs with different RP imply different builds. That's the core principle of any RPG.

[Wlerin]

Jean-Maurice Nya eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm already full, it doesn't allow me to get more stuff, eveything is unlocked. I noticed it on previous runs, there's a limit to max cargo that doesn't match the number of mounts and beasts. There's no scrolling options to review more cargo.

... *sigh* Let me explain again.

With Supercargo the cap is 690 (i.e. 600*1.15). Without it the max is 600. If you take Kandake's quest (the Golden Theory), at one step she wants to load up all her accumulated research materials in your caravan and have it carted down to the Leviathan. That subtracts 200 cargo spaces from your cargo. Without Supercargo that's 10 slots gone. With, it's only 6. Same with e.g. the corpses you can buy for Velarias, and possibly other quests.

This behaviour may be a bug.

This isn't a big deal, the main thing late in the game is the Misc slot which you absolutely do need if you want to play optimally (don't worry, your choice of Lizards already assured me that wasn't your goal.)

[Jean-Maurice Nya]

But I don't care about it, it's only situational. And not indispensible as you can go to the Leviathan without needing the extra cargo. So for my current game it's pure rubbish.

RPG isn't about optimization, it's about RP. That's in the name. That's not a strategy game I'm playing, so you're way to play isn't accurate for the purposes of the game.
Different runs with different RP imply different builds.

[MoreEvilSquid]

Jean-Maurice Nya eredeti hozzászólása:

I know how the system works, and house Venarii bonus is very easy to get (all houses bonuses are, it's just a matter of specialization), and allow you to save Insight for plenty of purposes. On my first run I got to 5 with Oquo in a year or so. Venarii might take a bit more, but that's still pretty fast.
I only use 3-4 deputies until I have a crowded comitatus. Before that, it's not that important. The game is pretty easy and fast to understand after the first playthroughs.

You can accumulate plenty of bonuses from factions, sure, but they are complementary to your gameplay, in no way it is mandatory. It's mandatory if you want to become a wealthy vagrus in some extent.
I'm on a mercenary run, I don't really need friends now. I just raid comitatus and enjoy siding with Darius and the Church of Sergorod. And I have 3 deputies for 5 companions after about 3 years.

Although I myself didn't bee-line authority 6, Authority was definitely among one of the first things I raised, since not only do you get straight bonuses from each filled position, but you also unlock an equipment slot.

I actually had more authority than companions for quite a while, using a hired specialist (actually a Venari merc so I could use the Marauder slot, since I had no companions that had that skill at the time). The cost of these is reasonable, although it's kind of annoying that it increases each time you re-hire them - and that you can only re-hire them twice, before they disappear for good (and they don't mind leaving while you're in the middle of nowhere either - no wonder they're so often "disgruntled", must be all that walking back alone in the middle of the wasteland that gets to them!).

But anyway, Venari's bonuses are overall quite lacklustre - there's practically zero chance I was going to get their authority bonus before I already had 6 authority, and unless their hiring discount also applies to specialists you can hire at either Venari or Oquo HQ or the salt mining/metal mining specialists, that too is practically useless. I don't find myself having to hire people all that often, and even if I did it more regularly, somehow I doubt that the savings on hiring fees are going to add up to much over my Vagrus' time in the wastes.

But if the Venari hiring discount DOES apply to salt/metal miners, or Oquo/Venari specialists, then that's actually decent - even though it's much more situational than what the other faction bonuses provide, it's still worth doing.

I don't actually have a problem with Venari having "weaker" or more situational or less useful bonuses than the others - they are a bunch of greedy snobs so it kind of fits, and it's still worthwhile to get in their good graces for their trade goods (although it does seem like most locations have a number of factions all offering the same stuff for the same price - I would have expected more variation in either price or good type, depending on their specialty or something).

However the authority bonus is completely useless - the amount you "save" on insight doesn't seem to be useful, considering it's much faster to amass the insight you need than it is to get Venari's level up (especially if you want to stay on friendly terms with the other trading house factions).

There's just way more utility to be had from having an extra deputy compared to spending that insight on something else, and by the time you finally get the authority unlocked via Venari you could have achieved so much more.

[MoreEvilSquid]

Wlerin eredeti hozzászólása:

Jean-Maurice Nya eredeti hozzászólása:

Supercargo is not. It's a good starter, then it is mostly useless. And I don't need Garrick in my current merc run.

... Supercargo is indispensable through to endgame, both because it grants 90 extra virtual cargo space that still counts when quests or events reduce your space, and because it gives a Misc equipment slot. (The only other one that does so is Slavedriver, which is truly useless.)

This isn't a meaningful choice, it's just a deadweight benefit.

Heh, I have both slavedriver and supercargo just so I get two extra misc slots! I find that I have more items that can provide combat bonuses that I can use, this way I can squeeze in one more (albeit a weak one).

No way could I trudge around with only ONE misc slot...

Good to know about the supercargo bonus being usable in quests - tbh I was wondering what the point of that extra cargo was, when we can't actually use it. Seems like a needless limitation - to limit the cargo space to one screen only - since there are already maluses associated with having a comitatus beyond a certain size.

[MoreEvilSquid]

Nordil(Hun) eredeti hozzászólása:

Wlerin eredeti hozzászólása:

The issue is that it takes ages to get to Venari V, during which you wouldn't have a 6th Deputy. (And you can lose it pretty easily.)

Afaik you cannot hire multiple folks from the same house as deputies. I tried to hire a beastmaster and a taskmaster once. Was not an option.

Yeah for some strange reason they don't like you hiring multiple people from the same house. No idea why though - surely they'd WANT the extra business?

You should be able to hire one from Oquo and one from Venari though - each house provides three types that each cater to a specific deputy slot.

[MoreEvilSquid]

Jean-Maurice Nya eredeti hozzászólása:

But I don't care about it, it's only situational. And not indispensible as you can go to the Leviathan without needing the extra cargo. So for my current game it's pure rubbish.

RPG isn't about optimization, it's about RP. That's in the name. That's not a strategy game I'm playing, so you're way to play isn't accurate for the purposes of the game.
Different runs with different RP imply different builds.

True, I'm sure I've done many things sub-optimally in this game. Mostly when I head somewhere to do a quest without also having lots of useful cargo to sell there and/or faction stuff to deliver/kill on the way.

But since supercargo gives you free cargo slots, it can help if you have some beasts killed, or to save on beasts in the first place - which saves food, which saves money and/or having to hunt/gather as much.

[Jean-Maurice Nya]

But all of it is easy to do without the supercargo. It's a good beginner choice to me, for trading purposes. Otherwise I prefer to save Insight to build up characters.
In a merc run, the supercargo would follow the losses, especially with beasts. Losing animals implies losing cargo slots. Therefore your losses in term of cargo slots are more important with the deputy than without.

And again, the second Authority bonus can be useful to any build that wants to save on deputy costs. To add some ressourfulness for example or get another leader perk.

[Alharemi]

it's all good but still not worth it as lvl5 reward.
since every teammate brings help in skills and deputies extend it it's easier to rase autority one of the first and get whole team as for me.
Even then. As one of you said he spend a year to get it...
And then need to maintain it...
In fact I'm on late game and this brings nothing for me. Insights? I'm working on maxing lvl of rest 3 NPC so 20-50 more or less.... doesn't care...
Rest of houses reduce my costs for people and so on. It helps constantly.
This one not

[Jean-Maurice Nya]

Again, it depends on what you want to do. If you focus on ressourcefulness and leader perks, you need a lot of insight and it's way better to use the Venari if you really want 6 deputies, which is not indispensible either.
What's hard about maintaining a high level relationship ? I find the reputation system pretty easy and straightforward...